The Abortion Issue

[Bunty]

Yes. It's a very sensible thing to do.


What things? Be concrete.

Quite often you don't make yourself clear. This isn't a put down by any
means. Your writing skills aren't very good and most of the time it's hard
to follow.

Don't call me dear.

It should be obvious to others of this fine forum that you were, indeed making a put down, and no, I most certainly didn't call you dear. There's no way you successfully dispute the latter.

But my point was if you make government strong enough to ban abortion, will government stop with its new found power from there? I fear that I don't know. And I gather you, Prunepicker, wouldn't be the least concerned about it.

[Bunty]

Then why did you ask me a question that had nothing to do with any post
up to that point? What brought it up? I certainly didn't, but you asked me.
I doesn't make sense.

All I did was ask you a question that should have been answered by now with either yes, no, I don't know, or I pass.

[Prunepicker]

I didn't call you dear. But my point was if you make government strong
enough to ban abortion, will government stop with its new found power from
there? I fear that I don't know. And I gather you, Prunepicker, wouldn't be
the least concerned about it.

All it has to do is ban any form of abortion whatsoever.

As far as what the government is concerned, ending the convenience of
murdering children won't be any different than making a law about BOcare
or the deficit stimulus. Well, there will be one difference, ending the murder
of innocent children would be responsible.

I want innocent children to at least have the same rights as murderers or
violent criminals.

[Prunepicker]

All I did was ask you a question that should have been answered by now with
either yes, no, I don't know, or I pass.

I honestly don't understand the question and why you asked me.

[Bunty]

All it has to do is ban any form of abortion whatsoever.

As far as what the government is concerned, ending the convenience of
murdering children won't be any different than making a law about BOcare
or the deficit stimulus. Well, there will be one difference, ending the murder
of innocent children would be responsible.

I want innocent children to at least have the same rights as murderers or
violent criminals.

At best an idealism, because I would imagine that a ban on all abortion would turn out about as successful as the ban on marijuana. Bear in mind that whatever the government tries to ban it loses control over it, and the more people who disagree with the ban, the more crazy out of control the situation gets. Around 50% or more of the people believe in abortion rights, so you can get some idea from there how banning abortion would turn out.

[PennyQuilts]

At best an idealism, because I would imagine that a ban on all abortion would turn out about as successful as the ban on marijuana. Bear in mind that whatever the government tries to ban it loses control over it, and the more people who disagree with the ban, the more crazy out of control the situation gets. Around 50% or more of the people believe in abortion rights, so you can get some idea from there how banning abortion would turn out.

That 50% may not be that high, anymore based on some stats I saw, recently (but now can't find). Moreover, many of the people who believe in abortion rights run the gauntlet from open abortions, abortions only when the life of the mother is endangered, only for rape, incest, etc. By that standard, I am pro choice since I believe it should be a option to save the life of the mother.

[RealJimbo]

I honestly don't understand the question and why you asked me.

PP - I think the concept is "when you are losing the discussion, bring up a side issue to derail the opposition". The name of this thread being "The Abortion Issue" should be a hint to those who would bring up legalizing marijuana (who might that be?) and other issues that are not related.

I find it mildly amusing that there are some on this forum who demand answers and even in a specific format (yes or no for example) concerning questions that don't necessarily relate to the topic. "Were you or were you not in your skin on January 1, 1993?".

I get it, Prune. No abortion. That is pretty clear, simple and to the point. Count me in as well. That's my stand.

[proud2Bsooner]

This is a very simple issue: the right to kill vs. the right to live.

[Bunty]

And just how far do you make the government go in helping it to enforce some ban on abortion? What if a dispatcher radios a cop that there's an abortion soon to begin at 1120 N. B St., but 15 seconds later the dispatcher tells the cop that there's an armed robbery in progress at First National Bank. What situation should the cop respond to first? Prunepicker?

[Prunepicker]

At best an idealism, because I would imagine that a ban on all abortion would
turn out about as successful as the ban on marijuana.

Of course it's idealism, but very reasonable. Oh for a world where children
can't be murdered, tortured or ripped apart at a whim.

Marijuana is illegal and rightly so. The same for heroin and other controlled
substances. Like murdering children on a whim they don't contribute
positively to society.

[Bunty]

Marijuana is illegal and rightly so. The same for heroin and other controlled
substances. Like murdering children on a whim they don't contribute
positively to society.

Then I gather you feel that medical marijuana is without a doubt quack medicine.

[Prunepicker]

Then I gather you feel that medical marijuana is without a doubt quack
medicine.

How did you come up with that conclusion?

[Bunty]

Simply because you wrote marijuana is illegal and rightly so.

[Bunty]

Of course it's idealism, but very reasonable. Oh for a world where children
can't be murdered, tortured or ripped apart at a whim.

How dare you be so wrong and fool hardy as to think banning abortion is the proper solution to the killing of unborn babies in the womb. In Latin America where all, if not most abortion, is banned is where we have many of the world's highest rates of abortion. And interestingly enough, Cuba, where abortion is legal, the abortion rate is one of the lowest of the Latin American countries.

So if you really care about the slaughter of the unborn and the unspeakable pain you strongly believe they go through at the moment of abortion, in no way should the banning of abortion even remotely be given serious thought.

Source: LATIN AMERICA: Abortion - Still Illegal, Still Killing, Despite Growing Awareness - IPS ipsnews.net

[Bunty]

PP - I think the concept is "when you are losing the discussion, bring up a side issue to derail the opposition". The name of this thread being "The Abortion Issue" should be a hint to those who would bring up legalizing marijuana (who might that be?) and other issues that are not related.

I find it mildly amusing that there are some on this forum who demand answers and even in a specific format (yes or no for example) concerning questions that don't necessarily relate to the topic. "Were you or were you not in your skin on January 1, 1993?".

I get it, Prune. No abortion. That is pretty clear, simple and to the point. Count me in as well. That's my stand.

So do you really want to win the argument that banning abortion is, by far, the right thing to do? Then show me a country where abortion has apparently been successfully banned as indicated from its abortion rate being at or near zero, and it's a place you'd love to live in, while soaking up all the more highly moral atmosphere that successfully banning abortion has presumably produced. This assuming the country would actually allow you to live there and practice your religion. (Hint: It might be Saudi Arabia.)

[PennyQuilts]

How dare you be so wrong and fool hardy as to think banning abortion is the proper solution to the killing of unborn babies in the womb. In Latin America where all, if not most abortion, is banned is where we have many of the world's highest rates of abortion. And interestingly enough, Cuba, where abortion is legal, the abortion rate is one of the lowest of the Latin American countries.

So if you really care about the slaughter of the unborn and the unspeakable pain you strongly believe they go through at the moment of abortion, in no way should the banning of abortion even remotely be given serious thought.

Source: LATIN AMERICA: Abortion - Still Illegal, Still Killing, Despite Growing Awareness - IPS ipsnews.net

If you don't practice birth control, the pregnancy rate is going to skyrocket. There is a lot more going on in Latin America on that front that can explain the situation/stats as opposed to the notion that if you ban abortion, the rate goes up.

Duh.

[Prunepicker]

How dare you be so wrong and fool hardy as to think banning abortion is the
proper solution to the killing of unborn babies in the womb. In Latin America
where all, if not most abortion, is banned is where we have many of the
world's highest rates of abortion. And interestingly enough, Cuba, where
abortion is legal, the abortion rate is one of the lowest of the Latin American
countries.

Bunty, it doesn't matter. Murdering children on a whim needs to be stopped.

[bandnerd]

Somehow I doubt that very many women get an abortion "on a whim."

[Prunepicker]

Somehow I doubt that very many women get an abortion "on a whim."

I'm being flippant for a reason. I'll bet more are for "birth control" or
irresponsible behavior than any other reason. Regardless, abortion needs to
come to an end.

[bandnerd]

I thought you always approached things with civility and humor. Is being flippant humorous or just a lack of tact?

I don't believe saying that women get abortions "on a whim" is flippant, I think it's irresponsible.

[Prunepicker]

I thought you always approached things with civility and humor. Is being
flippant humorous or just a lack of tact?

I don't believe saying that women get abortions "on a whim" is
flippant, I think it's irresponsible.

I didn't mean for flippant to be thought of as humorous or a lack of tack. Nor
did I intend a double entendre since there is nothing humorous about taking
the life of a child. I was using flippant in the case of being disrespectful or
not appreciating the gravity of taking a human life. Perhaps impudent would
have been a better word but flippant was used because it came to mind at
the time.

[bandnerd]

Again, I will have to say that I don't think women just go out and get abortions without weighing in their minds what they are doing. You are assuming something about them, and that is dangerous.

[PennyQuilts]

Again, I will have to say that I don't think women just go out and get abortions without weighing in their minds what they are doing. You are assuming something about them, and that is dangerous.

I think you are both assuming something about the women getting abortions.

I will do the same - I think some think it through with considerations for what it actually entails and others consider it just a procedure and "what you do" if you inconveniently get pregnant.

Some see it is a a moral/ethical issue and others see it is as just a medical procedure to get rid of a parasite. And there are plenty of comments on this board to back up the latter. What we HEAR and what we are TOLD by the pro choice advocates is that women think it through with a great deal of soul searching.

What we read when many pro choices bother to comment is that it is just a parasite and people who think otherwise are religious nuts. If people don't believe that view of the situation doesn't impact how women view abortion, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell...

[Bunty]

Again, I will have to say that I don't think women just go out and get abortions without weighing in their minds what they are doing. You are assuming something about them, and that is dangerous.

Speaking of dangerous, just how far do people, like Prunepicker, want the law to go to put a stop to abortion? But to advocate banning abortion in full view of the fact that the world's highest abortion rates are found in countries where it's banned is just sick. What a disgusting exhibition of moral insanity.

[PennyQuilts]

Speaking of dangerous, just how far do people, like Prunepicker, want the law to go to put a stop to abortion? But to advocate banning abortion in full view of the fact that the world's highest abortion rates are found in countries where it's banned is just sick. What a disgusting exhibition of moral insanity.

Bunty, even if you disagree with PP, you don't have the high road on this one. You are preaching a theory you don't have any idea is true - it is just something you made up and want to believe. To attack someone as morally insane when they are clearly trying to protect kids - regardless of whether you believe he is accurate or not - is pretty audacious. You can disagree with how to go about doing the right thing but calling someone's attempts to do the right thing sick because you don't agree with the method is really intolerant.