The Abortion Issue

[PennyQuilts]

Well, when we're talking the first few weeks of life, I think you'd have to do a local because it would be so tiny I'm not sure you could anesthetize it. Nor am I sure if there are nerves to feel pain; there isn't a brain at that point, yet. I'll have to do some reading on a fresh mind tomorrow.

I don't know when they feel pain or when they could anesthetize them, either. I guess I was thinking a little further on but didn't really think about it too much. I should have said I wish they would anesthetize them, if at all possible. I assume once they could be anesthesized (drugs could work for the little ones, couldn't they?) they'd be developed enough to feel pain but I don't know, exactly.

[Prunepicker]

I realized that after reading all of it.

Tone is hard to decipher on a message board! I would be interested in
knowing the answer. Maybe it's just not being used?

My tone is almost always civil and often humorous, but it hasn't be humorous
on this thread.

[Prunepicker]

I don't know when they feel pain or when they could anesthetize them,
either.

It's around 8 weeks. One example is the video "The Silent Scream" I've seen
it and it's gruesome and an eye opener.

[xoxotiffanynicole]

fetuses are not able to feel pain until at least the 28th week of gestation. This is because they have not formed the necessary nerve pathways that send pain signals to the brain. Even though fetuses begin forming pain receptors around the eighth week of development, the thalamus (responsible for relaying info into higher regions of the brain) does not develop until around the 28th week. Without signal transfer through the thalamus no information can reach the cortex for processing.

[xoxotiffanynicole]

It's around 8 weeks. One example is the video "The Silent Scream" I've seen
it and it's gruesome and an eye opener.

Got a link?

[Prunepicker]

Got a link?

Yes, I do.

The Silent Scream

[xoxotiffanynicole]

Yes, I do.

The Silent Scream

Thank you.

[RealJimbo]

In my heart, I am torn. I know people who have made the choice to abort babies, my wife and both of my sisters had miscarriages, and they are all haunted by their experiences. I feel bad for all of them for different reasons. In my experience, those who aborted did so out of desperation. They felt like they had to do it. My wife and sisters all would love to have had the babies they miscarried to have been born healthy. Their life experiences are totally unique, as are all individuals' life experiences. But like PP, I can't get past the FACT that abortion stops a beating human heart. It isn't an inconvenience, a parasite (in the tapeworm sense), an "it", or most of the time even a threat to the mother or her future. It is a human life, no matter how immature it may be, once it is conceived.

But I can see how there are those who believe a pre-birth human being is nothing more than a problem, an inconvenience, a parasite, a choice, etc. Because our society has been bombarded with this kind of attitude about pre-birth human beings for many years. And what about the size of the abortion industry? Consider the millions of abortions that happen every year and how many dollars (example: what is the cost of an abortion? $10,000? Too much? Too little? If it is $10,000, then multiply by 1,000,000 and it is a $10 billion per year industry and you KNOW that is conservative) are we talking about that wouldn't go into somebody's pockets if suddenly abotions weren't so socially acceptable? Don't kid yourself. It is big business.

[Bunty]

At least the rate of abortion has been slowly declining, unless you want to bash President Obama and prove me wrong by proving that under Obama the rate of abortion has been going UP, not down.

[PennyQuilts]

At least the rate of abortion has been slowly declining, unless you want to bash President Obama and prove me wrong by proving that under Obama the rate of abortion has been going UP, not down.

I doubt if they even have those stats, yet.

[bandnerd]

I doubt if they even have those stats, yet.

Yeah, it takes a little longer than that to compile that kind of data, I'll bet.

[RealJimbo]

At least the rate of abortion has been slowly declining, unless you want to bash President Obama and prove me wrong by proving that under Obama the rate of abortion has been going UP, not down.

Although I don't ever like to pass up a good chance to bash President Obama, I'll pass on this one, since I have no idea which way the trend is going, but thank you anyway.

[mugofbeer]

Although I don't ever like to pass up a good chance to bash President Obama, I'll pass on this one, since I have no idea which way the trend is going, but thank you anyway.

What in the h - e - double hockey sticks does a president have to do with the rate of abortion? Abortion is legal in all 50 states per the Supreme Court. Whoever is in office isn't going to have anything to do with it. What will have to do with it is the level of education being provided, availability of contraceptives and availability of information to women/mothers BEFORE they abort.

And please, xoxotiffanynicole, this is not meant as a poke at you or anything personal but simply using your situation as an example (tones and inferences are very hard on chat boards like this but I know your decision was difficult) - if, as PQ states, you were aware and informed that healthy newborn babies can nearly always be placed with parents wanting newborns, would you have given the abortion a 2nd thought?

[xoxotiffanynicole]

What in the h - e - double hockey sticks does a president have to do with the rate of abortion? Abortion is legal in all 50 states per the Supreme Court. Whoever is in office isn't going to have anything to do with it. What will have to do with it is the level of education being provided, availability of contraceptives and availability of information to women/mothers BEFORE they abort.

And please, xoxotiffanynicole, this is not meant as a poke at you or anything personal but simply using your situation as an example (tones and inferences are very hard on chat boards like this but I know your decision was difficult) - if, as PQ states, you were aware and informed that healthy newborn babies can nearly always be placed with parents wanting newborns, would you have given the abortion a 2nd thought?

I've learned not to take other peoples' beliefs on this matter to heart 'cause it just pisses me off so no problem.
There definitely needs to be more education handed out to any woman, pregnant or not. I weighed the decisions and choices, like any other woman who has gotten an abortion has done. There was no second thought to the abortion. There were TONS.

[Prunepicker]

What will have to do with it is the level of education being provided,
availability of contraceptives and availability of information to women/mothers
BEFORE they abort.

I've noticed that since the level of this education has increased that the
number abortions have gone up.

[PennyQuilts]

I've noticed that since the level of this education has increased that the
number abortions have gone up.

I doubt that is causal other than women have options (birth control and abortion) and are putting off marriage and raising kids so there is more time to get an education. Moreover, much of the drive behind abortion rights has been driven by feminist notions of control over their own bodies and that tends to be driven by the elite. But overall, society has become much more accepting of irresponsible sexual behavior and a break down for respect for lifetime commitments, leading to foolish and impulsive choices and pregnancies being realized a couple of months after the dad has moved on. It uses abortion to clean up problems because that is easier than trying to instill a sense of personal responsibility regarding sexual behavior and a value system that genuinely believes two parents are appropriate and not just better. This is not to say that married women in stable relationships don't have accidents but the reasons they choose abortion are likely to be fundamentally different than your average single gal.

[USG '60]

My tone is almost always civil and often humorous, but it hasn't be humorous
on this thread.

You have taken being sanctimonious to heights I've never witnessed. It is the worst sort of rudeness. It is your tool and your trademark. Have a nice day.

[Bunty]

I've noticed that since the level of this education has increased that the
number abortions have gone up.

So teaching birth control methods is wrong and immoral, because it arouses curiosity and a desire in people to indulge in sex?

[Bunty]

I am for such a law. Just like I'm for the laws that forced slave owners to free
their slaves. Just like I'm for the laws that forces people to go to jail if they
commit a crime deserving of incarceration. Just like I'm for the laws that force
people to pay fines for parking in a no parking zone. Is see no reason to
murder the child. Anti abortion means no abortions. Period.

Thank you for helping us clarify this point.

If you wish to make government strong enough to put a stop to abortions, why stop there? Or if you want to stop there, why trust big government to stop there as well?

[Prunepicker]

So teaching birth control methods is wrong and immoral, because it arouses
curiosity and a desire in people to indulge in sex?

Why do you believe that?

[Prunepicker]

If you wish to make government strong enough to put a stop to abortions,
why stop there? Or if you want to stop there, why trust big government to
stop there as well?

What are you talking about? Rewrite your sentence. You're point is
obfuscated.

[Bunty]

Why do you believe that?

I'm not believing. Did you notice I asked you a question? Don't you know that many parents don't want birth control taught in schools because it might arouse curiosity about sex make them what to fool around.

[Bunty]

What are you talking about? Rewrite your sentence. You're point is
obfuscated.

Do you want government or in other words the law to be strong enough to ban abortion, or not? If so, do you want things to stop there? If not, do you actually trust government to stop from there? Please dear, God, how can I make myself more clear.

[Prunepicker]

So teaching birth control methods is wrong and immoral, because it arouses
curiosity and a desire in people to indulge in sex?

I'm not believing. Did you notice I asked you a
question? Don't you know that many parents don't want birth control taught
in schools because it might arouse curiosity about sex make them what to
fool around.

Then why did you ask me a question that had nothing to do with any post
up to that point? What brought it up? I certainly didn't, but you asked me.
I doesn't make sense.

[Prunepicker]

Do you want government or in other words the law to be strong enough to
ban abortion, or not?

Yes. It's a very sensible thing to do.

If so, do you want things to stop there? If not, do you actually trust
government to stop from there? Please dear, God, how can I make myself
more clear.

What things? Be concrete.

Quite often you don't make yourself clear. This isn't a put down by any
means. Your writing skills aren't very good and most of the time it's hard
to follow.

Don't call me dear.