The Abortion Issue

[Bunty]

Then what do you want to see happen. For all abortions to be banned and then get on your knees and pray to God to make the ban on abortion actually work?

[bandnerd]

Then what do you want to see happen. For all abortions to be banned and then get on your knees and pray to God to make the ban on abortion actually work?

Yes, making them totally illegal and pushing them to the black market/underground/less desirable countries would do wonders for women's health in this country.

I can't justify putting women through that. I can't justify putting a teenage girl who is scared out of her mind through delivering a baby that she doesn't have to deliver. And yes, I know you're going to say, "If they are old enough to have sex, they are old enough to have a baby." I think so many people have forgotten what it was like to be a teenager and how STUPID we all were. We all seem to think we were all perfect, and that all teenagers now should be perfect. And now I'm off on a tangent...dang.

I also can't justify putting a woman who was raped through delivering a baby that is a product of that rape. I know that isn't the majority of abortions performed, however, it is a percentage that should be accounted for when lawmakers come up with their rules and regulations.

I can't justify putting a woman through a delivery process that could kill her. Some women's bodies cannot handle pregnancy and shouldn't. Yes, there is birth control, but not everyone reacts well to hormonal birth control and barrier methods don't have as high a success rate because of malfunction or misuse. Are women who are married and shouldn't have a baby because of their own health issues remain celibate in a marriage? I don't think that would really work out for all parties involved.

[Caboose]

Then what do you want to see happen. For all abortions to be banned and then get on your knees and pray to God to make the ban on abortion actually work?

Oh I thought you were done with this topic?

Is it OK to abort a fetus at 8.5 months?

You have already declared it is not OK at nine months, explain why.

[Caboose]

Pro-Choice.
Who is anyone to sit around & tell someone what they should do just because it's what someone else believes in?

I know!!! Like when the government tells me that I cant chop your arms with a machete just because someone else doesnt "believe in it". Thats ridiculous! I should be able to do what I want!

Abortions can only go up to 24wks. for a reason.

What is that reason exactly?

if people were educated then there wouldn't be such a big arguement about it.
Nobody can for sure figure out where life starts.
& until then abortions will ALWAYS be legal.

So then I am assuming you support a woman's decision to have an abortion in the 9th month of pregnancy, the day before her due date. Is that correct? If not, why not?

[RealJimbo]

Yes, making them totally illegal and pushing them to the black market/underground/less desirable countries would do wonders for women's health in this country.

I can't justify putting women through that. I can't justify putting a teenage girl who is scared out of her mind through delivering a baby that she doesn't have to deliver. And yes, I know you're going to say, "If they are old enough to have sex, they are old enough to have a baby." I think so many people have forgotten what it was like to be a teenager and how STUPID we all were. We all seem to think we were all perfect, and that all teenagers now should be perfect. And now I'm off on a tangent...dang.

I also can't justify putting a woman who was raped through delivering a baby that is a product of that rape. I know that isn't the majority of abortions performed, however, it is a percentage that should be accounted for when lawmakers come up with their rules and regulations.

I can't justify putting a woman through a delivery process that could kill her. Some women's bodies cannot handle pregnancy and shouldn't. Yes, there is birth control, but not everyone reacts well to hormonal birth control and barrier methods don't have as high a success rate because of malfunction or misuse. Are women who are married and shouldn't have a baby because of their own health issues remain celibate in a marriage? I don't think that would really work out for all parties involved.

This whole line of argument is full of you know what. Abortion still stops a beating heart no matter what you can't justify. The "putting a woman through a delivery process that could kill her" is BS. So is the "putting a woman who was raped". And I suspect you know it. Those are such infinitessimally small percentages of abortions, shame on you for even bringing them into the discussion! Most abortions are abortions of convenience.

[Caboose]

Yes, making them totally illegal and pushing them to the black market/underground/less desirable countries would do wonders for women's health in this country.

I can't justify putting women through that. I can't justify putting a teenage girl who is scared out of her mind through delivering a baby that she doesn't have to deliver. And yes, I know you're going to say, "If they are old enough to have sex, they are old enough to have a baby." I think so many people have forgotten what it was like to be a teenager and how STUPID we all were. We all seem to think we were all perfect, and that all teenagers now should be perfect. And now I'm off on a tangent...dang.

I also can't justify putting a woman who was raped through delivering a baby that is a product of that rape. I know that isn't the majority of abortions performed, however, it is a percentage that should be accounted for when lawmakers come up with their rules and regulations.

I can't justify putting a woman through a delivery process that could kill her. Some women's bodies cannot handle pregnancy and shouldn't. Yes, there is birth control, but not everyone reacts well to hormonal birth control and barrier methods don't have as high a success rate because of malfunction or misuse. Are women who are married and shouldn't have a baby because of their own health issues remain celibate in a marriage? I don't think that would really work out for all parties involved.

As much as one may be inclined to agree with everything you said, EVERY single bit of your opinion is based on you accepting that a fetus is not a human life with the full rights protected by the US Constitution. So how did you come to that conclusion?

[Bunty]

So as I see it, Caboose, you very, very strongly feel that there can be no doubt about it, whatsover. Life most certainaly does, indeed, begins at conception. This seems like something you can't possibly get out of your head. Am I RIGHT?

[Bunty]

Oh I thought you were done with this topic?

Is it OK to abort a fetus at 8.5 months?

You have already declared it is not OK at nine months, explain why.

I was only done with it in an unrelated topic after you brought it up inappropriately.

Once again, who cares, other than the woman with the unwanted pregnancy, who should have never lusted after a hot guy and spread her legs for him in the first place?

[Bunty]

This whole line of argument is full of you know what. Abortion still stops a beating heart no matter what you can't justify. The "putting a woman through a delivery process that could kill her" is BS. So is the "putting a woman who was raped". And I suspect you know it. Those are such infinitessimally small percentages of abortions, shame on you for even bringing them into the discussion! Most abortions are abortions of convenience.

So please, RealJimbo, tell us how banning abortion is supposed to work so very well in at last putting a stop to women getting abortions as a matter of personal convenience? After all, in Latin American Catholic countries of South America where abortion is banned, the abortion rate is likely higher than here in the United States. It is one of the reasons why I know I'm very right for being pro-choice.

[Caboose]

So as I see it, Caboose, you very, very strongly feel that there can be no doubt about it, whatsover. Life most certainaly does, indeed, begins at conception. This seems like something you can't possibly get out of your head. Am I RIGHT?

I never said anything remotely like that.

[Caboose]

I was only done with it in an unrelated topic after you brought it up inappropriately.

Once again, who cares, other than the woman with the unwanted pregnancy, who should have never lusted after a hot guy and spread her legs for him in the first place?

OK, so back on topic.

Why are abortions the day before a woman's due date not acceptable for you?

[bandnerd]

So...just because the percentage of women who can't physically bear a child, and those women who are raped and impregnated as a result (and let's throw incest in there, too) is small, we are just supposed to ignore that it does happen and choose this for them?

They don't deserve rights because they are a minority?

[Caboose]

So...just because the percentage of women who can't physically bear a child, and those women who are raped and impregnated as a result (and let's throw incest in there, too) is small, we are just supposed to ignore that it does happen and choose this for them?

They don't deserve rights because they are a minority?

Again... the only reason you find it rational to even ask such questions is based on your conclusion that the fetus is not a full human life with rights protected by the US Constitution. So why don't you just explain how you came to that conclusion and end the entire debate for everyone forever?

[bandnerd]

Caboose--I don't have to explain anything to you or to anyone here. I was simply asking you questions. Where do your beliefs come from, then?

[Caboose]

Caboose--I don't have to explain anything to you or to anyone here. I was simply asking you questions. Where do your beliefs come from, then?

Why are you getting so defensive?
Do you think a fetus is a full human life with full rights?

[bandnerd]

I'm not being defensive. I refuse to be bullied. It is difficult to get the tone through text, but imagine me saying it very calmly. I have nothing to explain to you. I asked some questions, you accused me of believing something. I asked some more questions, you basically said I was either lying or pulling out small numbers to make my point.

The point is, you know nothing about me, my beliefs, or why I feel that way, and even if I do explain all of those things to you, you will not accept them. It would be a waste of both our time.

I've been persecuted on this board before, and I won't be again. Not by you, not by anyone.

[Caboose]

I'm not being defensive. I refuse to be bullied. It is difficult to get the tone through text, but imagine me saying it very calmly. I have nothing to explain to you. I asked some questions, you accused me of believing something. I asked some more questions, you basically said I was either lying or pulling out small numbers to make my point.

The point is, you know nothing about me, my beliefs, or why I feel that way, and even if I do explain all of those things to you, you will not accept them. It would be a waste of both our time.

I've been persecuted on this board before, and I won't be again. Not by you, not by anyone.

I am not bullying or persecuting you. I have no idea what you are talking about with "small numbers". This is a discussion about "The Abortion Issue", just as the thread title implies. You jumped into it ready to show everyone that you had all the answers. All I am doing is asking you for an explanation as to how you arrived at your conclusion. If you think that is being bullied and persecuted then you are in for a rough miserable life as a perpetual victim. So if you want to continue the discussion you got in voluntarily, then I would be happy to continue with you. Otherwise, See ya. No loss to me.

So, back on point. Do you believe a fetus is a full human life with full rights or not?

[Caboose]

The point is, you know nothing about me, my beliefs, or why I feel that way, and even if I do explain all of those things to you, you will not accept them. It would be a waste of both our time.

And this simply isnt true. If you would explain how you determined whether or not a fetus is a human life with full rights then not only would I accept it, the whole WORLD would, and this debate would be over for good. Unless of course... you are wrong. All I am asking you to do is show your work.

So what is the REAL holdup here? You dont want to explain yourself because you feel "bullied and persecuted"? Or is it because you know the very foundation you built your entire opinion on this topic is wrong or unknowable?

[Midtowner]

Why are you getting so defensive?
Do you think a fetus is a full human life with full rights?

It doesn't matter what anyone thinks. By definition, by law, it's not.

You can argue about the way things ought to be and you're entitled to your opinion. But that's all you have--an opinion.

Trying to argue subjective opinion as objective fact is a game you can only win in your own mind.

[Caboose]

It doesn't matter what anyone thinks. By definition, by law, it's not.

You can argue about the way things ought to be and you're entitled to your opinion. But that's all you have--an opinion.

Trying to argue subjective opinion as objective fact is a game you can only win in your own mind.

What are you talking about? What do you think we are doing here? Do you think the lot of us on this thread are unaware of what the law is?

And for the record, I am not the one who has presented a subjective opinion here, am I?

[Prunepicker]

And for the record, I am not the one who has presented a subjective opinion
here, am I?

I did however it was only about how opinions are formed.

[Midtowner]

What are you talking about? What do you think we are doing here? Do you think the lot of us on this thread are unaware of what the law is?

And for the record, I am not the one who has presented a subjective opinion here, am I?

And what is your subjective opinion?

[Bunty]

Well, at least Caboose has denied saying that he believes life starts at conception.

[Caboose]

And what is your subjective opinion?

I don't have one on this issue.

Now, is it OK that people are discussing this issue on a discussion board?

[Caboose]

Well, at least Caboose has denied saying that he believes life starts at conception.

I don't know when life starts Bunty. How did you conclude when it starts?