The Abortion Issue

[RealJimbo]

No, but so what, few abortions are performed then.

AH! So what? A few deaths here and there? Why do the police get so excited about one murder, then?

[Bunty]

It's just another innocent life that doesn't deserve to live, right Bunty?

Well, Prunepicker, if you believe in your heart and soul that an unborn baby is just beyond innocent, then why don't you advocate the law placing all pregnant women under electronic 24 hr. a day guard, so if a women is caught going onto the Internet trying to find out how the heck one is supposed to use a coat hanger to induce an abortion, she can be arrested and thrown in prison until birth is given. If you're so concerned about unborn babies being utterly slaughtered in the womb, then what are you doing about it?

[Caboose]

Well, Prunepicker, if you believe in your heart and soul that an unborn baby is just beyond innocent, then why don't you advocate the law placing all pregnant women under electronic 24 hr. a day guard, so if a women is caught going onto the Internet trying to find out how the heck one is supposed to use a coat hanger to induce an abortion, she can be arrested and thrown in prison until birth is given. If you're so concerned about unborn babies being utterly slaughtered in the womb, then what are you doing about it?

Well, is it OK to abort an 8 month old fetus or not? Yes or no.

[Prunepicker]

Well, Prunepicker, if you believe in your heart and soul that an unborn baby is
just beyond innocent, then why don't you advocate the law placing all
pregnant women under electronic 24 hr. a day guard, so if a women is caught
going onto the Internet trying to find out how the heck one is supposed to
use a coat hanger to induce an abortion, she can be arrested and thrown in
prison until birth is given. If you're so concerned about unborn babies being
utterly slaughtered in the womb, then what are you doing about it?

Where do you come up with these make believe scenarios? This one is
absolutely idiotic and has nothing to do with reality.

Bless your heart.

[Bunty]

Well, is it OK to abort an 8 month old fetus or not? Yes or no.

Come on Caboose. That is not a question for me to answer because I'm not the pregnant woman.

[Bunty]

Where do you come up with these make believe scenarios? This one is
absolutely idiotic and has nothing to do with reality.

Bless your heart.

But bless your own heart, Prunepicker, because I thought you very passionately believe in forced birth for women who don't want to give birth. Am I all out totally wrong???

[Caboose]

Come on Caboose. That is not a question for me to answer because I'm not the pregnant woman.

OK... So we have narrowed it down a bit.
You have determined that life begins somewhere between the 8th and 9th month of gestation.

So let's narrow it down a bit further. Is an abortion at 8 months and two weeks OK, Bunty?

P.S. You can speed this up by simply stating the specific day of gestation you have determined that life begins and then we can get to the good part.

[Prunepicker]

But bless your own heart, Prunepicker, because I thought you very
passionately believe in forced birth for women who don't want to give birth.
Am I all out totally wrong???

This is your make believe answer from your make believe world and has
nothing to do with reality.

[HewenttoJared]

Well, is it OK to abort an 8 month old fetus or not? Yes or no.

What a ridiculous question. In what fairy-tale universe would that be the actual core of the decision a potential mother is facing?

[HewenttoJared]

P.S. You can speed this up by simply stating the specific day of gestation you have determined that life begins and then we can get to the good part.

The day will never be pinned down on a large scale. We may reach a point technologically where we can say nerve structure reaches a determined level of connectedness to call it human(unique to every pregnancy), but not in our lifetimes, mate. All we have is "sometime" which is why you don't get to shove your opinion down some woman's throat.

[bandnerd]

How about the point of viability of life--meaning, the fetus can live outside the womb--as the "beginning" of life?

Anything before that and it's just a parasite, living off the host (mother).

[USG '60]

I suggest we drop this topic forever. Every point by both sides have been made on this and other threads on the subject. I suggest that if one gets the urge to say something that they simply read this and all the other similar threads again and praise or curse each post as feelings dictate. IT HAS ALL BEEN SAID and no one got converted. Let us all STFU.

[bandnerd]

I suggest we drop this topic forever. Every point by both sides have been made on this and other threads on the subject. I suggest that if one gets the urge to say something that they simply read this and all the other similar threads again and praise or curse each post as feelings dictate. IT HAS ALL BEEN SAID and no one got converted. Let us all STFU.

Wow, you ask so nicely...

[USG '60]

Wow, you ask so nicely...

I was feeling light hearted.

[Prunepicker]

How about the point of viability of life--meaning, the fetus can live outside
the womb--as the "beginning" of life?

Anything before that and it's just a parasite, living off the host (mother).

Because it's not a parasite. Oh, it sounds good but once that notion is
carried beyond the womb there's the question of what it's going do be
after the birth because it's going to be doing the same thing, i.e. living off
the host mother, physically, dependently and affectively. Then one can say
that there are others that can help with the care. Using the parasite theory
the baby becomes a parasite to others and this is going to be a fact for
several years.

[bandnerd]

Maybe some of us feel that children are parasites and would be fine with classifying them as such until they support themselves.

[RealJimbo]

But bless your own heart, Prunepicker, because I thought you very passionately believe in forced birth for women who don't want to give birth. Am I all out totally wrong???

"Forced Birth"...now only Bunty could come up with a new term like that. It is perfectly, politically correctly LIBERAL!!!!

[PennyQuilts]

What a ridiculous question. In what fairy-tale universe would that be the actual core of the decision a potential mother is facing?

I don't understand the comment. Clarify?

[Prunepicker]

Maybe some of us feel that children are parasites and would be fine with
classifying them as such until they support themselves.

You could, but it be a subjective opinion rather than objective.

[bandnerd]

Is there really such thing as an objective opinion? If you have an objective opinion, then it's just fact. And I haven't seen anyone really give me that many facts in this thread--mostly just brow-beating and attempting to persuade others to see your (and a few others) point of view.

At what point can a baby live on its own outside the womb, Prune? Do you know? How can you murder something that cannot even live on its own? Are you against euthanasia of animals? Of old people? Do you give the same regard to a spider on your ceiling that you give to these unborn fetuses?

[PennyQuilts]

Old people are parasitic, frequently, if they need assistance to survive. So do nursing babies. So do many people who are healing from accidents or strokes. The husband of an elderly friend of mine just got a trach removed five months following a massive stroke. He has been completely dependent on others for everything. They are thrilled that he has been able to handle the remote.

A parasitic fetus who can live on its own in a month and then be a healthy contributing member of society for a lifetime, seems like a better use of resources (arguably - if you had to choose) than keeping an old person alive following a stroke who will be in the hospital for months before recovering and living another ten years. The argument about viability just doesn't hold up if rationally examined. It is a completely arbitrary standard but one used to excuse killing fetuses for a long time. I don't think that is going to change as long as it is a convenient, if intellectually bankrupt, rationalization.

[Prunepicker]

Is there really such thing as an objective opinion? If you have an objective
opinion, then it's just fact. And I haven't seen anyone really give me that
many facts in this thread--mostly just brow-beating and attempting to
persuade others to see your (and a few others) point of view.

At what point can a baby live on its own outside the womb, Prune? Do you
know? How can you murder something that cannot even live on its own?
Are you against euthanasia of animals? Of old people? Do you give the
same regard to a spider on your ceiling that you give to these unborn
fetuses?

Yes, there is really such a thing as an objective opinion. Brow beating and
attempting to persuade others is a subjective view.

A baby, on it's own, can't live outside the body whether before birth or
after. That's an objective fact, not an opinion. But that fact doesn't
mean it isn't a life and it certainly doesn't make it a parasite worthy of
death.

I'm against euthanasia of animals and old people. I don't give a spider
the same regard as a human baby, you can call it a fetus, because it's not
a human.

[xoxotiffanynicole]

Pro-Choice.
Who is anyone to sit around & tell someone what they should do just because it's what someone else believes in?
Abortions can only go up to 24wks. for a reason.
& if people were educated then there wouldn't be such a big arguement about it.
Nobody can for sure figure out where life starts.
& until then abortions will ALWAYS be legal.

[RealJimbo]

Yes, there is really such a thing as an objective opinion. Brow beating and
attempting to persuade others is a subjective view.

A baby, on it's own, can't live outside the body whether before birth or
after. That's an objective fact, not an opinion. But that fact doesn't
mean it isn't a life and it certainly doesn't make it a parasite worthy of
death.

I'm against euthanasia of animals and old people. I don't give a spider
the same regard as a human baby, you can call it a fetus, because it's not
a human.

What PP said.

[Prunepicker]

... if people were educated then there wouldn't be such a big
argument about it.

... because they'd realize it is a life. There's no doubt about it. It's a
human being.