Streetcar

[soonerguru]

The Blue doesn't include Broadway, though. I consider that its biggest failing, besides the fact that the route is confusing. Personally, I think if we're going to have a line anywhere at all, it needs to go down Broadway and one of the major east-west streets.

I agree on both points.

The obvious streets -- to me -- include Broadway and Walker and/or Hudson for N/S, and Sheridan and 10th for east/west streets.

Any route plan that doesn't include three of four or four of four of those streets is idiotic and will not work.

[okclee]

Looks like Broadway to me.

East west you have Sheridan and 4th street.

[soonerguru]

The route you posted looks ridiculous. Can you imagine having to ride that whole route to get where you're going? Only a tourist or someone with lots of time on their hands will bother.

They need to separate the southern part of that route with a different line.

[betts]

Hmm. You're right. I couldn't read the streets on the smaller map and it looked like it was west of Broadway. OK, I have changed my mind. It still looks too complicated to me, in terms of planning your route. I certainly like the fact that it goes farther west. In fact, if you left out the places where the line intersects itself on 4th and Sheridan and made it a continuous loop you'd have the extra mileage left to bring it over to Walker on Reno.

[betts]

Has anyone given an estimate regarding how long it would take to ride the loop from start to finish?

[okclee]

What if we had 3 streetcars?

#1. running the entire track
#2. running just the southern looped area.
#3. running along the north looped area.

[Spartan]

That could help create some definition for the "medical business corridor."

[okclee]

We keep thinking about connecting the OUHSC with Bricktown.

What if they were more connected with Midtown instead?

Sure you could still get to bricktown, if one were to ride the streetcar #1, making the entire track run. Going to Midtown would be easier, just hop on streetcar #3 that only makes the north loop track.

[Spartan]

I am still intrigued by Blair's suggestion that linking the Oklahoma Health Center is not worth the cost per mile..if the frequency can't be increased during lunch and commute hours.

[betts]

The best argument for connecting the OUHSC with Bricktown is that some people with hospitalized families might stay in the Bricktown area. As far as people coming to Bricktown verus Midtown to eat lunch from the Health Sciences Center, I think if you polled people, they probably wouldn't care which it connected to, as people eat lunch both of those places. I don't really see any reason to connect St. Anthony's to the Health Sciences Center particularly.

But, I don't really see a huge need to connect to the Health Sciences Center with our first line, unless we want to encourage people who work at the Health Sciences Center to move downtown. That would probably be the biggest factor in doing so to me.

[okclee]

Isn't one of the purposes of the streetcar to spur development?

I think we could all easily envision a hotel or two in Midtown.

[SkyWestOKC]

Here's what I would like, something similar.


Red = MAPS3, light blue = possible future additions

Total of 6.8 miles of track using two-traffic. I prefer the double track method because that way, in order to go from Point A to Point B, you don't have to ride the whole way around the loop. Allows greater flexibility and speed for the traveler, in my opinion. Broadway to merge onto EK Gaylord and follows it south to 7th.

I also utilized the hub system as opposed to a loop system. The "focus station", not really a hub but just a connecting point at 4th and Broadway. The main "hub" being at Shartel and EK Gaylord. Other connecting points would be built on later on, as seen in my map.

Personally, that is what I would like to see. For example, if I am in the medical area, I don't want to follow the loop all the way to Automobile Alley to get into Bricktown, I'd be better off driving and saving 15 minutes.

[Urban Pioneer]

All good comments folks. Mike McAnelly made it a point at the end of the meeting today to say that they would be reading them and considering your opinions and feelings about all of these issues.

There are some obvious challenges on the table.

I do think that this input process has been one of the most encompassing that I have experienced and that may be to the detriment of these first drafts. It may be that we have to go through this explosion of ideas to get somewhere practical.

Also I think there are hard questions such as whether we should sacrifice a certain area to be done at a later date to develop a better "heart" of the system.

[Steve]

Question for everybody: the Urban Land Institute study suggests Core to Shore will take 50 years to develop. Should this area be reserved for future expansion of the system? Where should development be prioritized - in Core to Shore or the empty gaps in Deep Deuce/Flat Iron, MidTown and the Arts District?

[okclee]

Am I missing something?

Where do you see the system going into Core to Shore?

[Urban Pioneer]

I will add on to that for context. Two of the drawings show the route "touching" core-to-shore on the proposed new boulevard.

Question would be, do you think that a streetcar connection to the new Central Park and Convention Center is vital? If so, do you think that we should use MAPS 3 money to facilitate that connection or save that money and provide that connection as a "built-in cost" to the new Boulevard budget?

We know where the park is going and that there is the money to build it. That is a certainty.

[Steve]

Doesn't matter at this point - my questions are independent of that because we have no idea what routes will be submitted to the MAPS 3 board and council.

[Steve]

Urban Pioneer, do you think we know where the convention center will be built?

[Urban Pioneer]

Urban Pioneer, do you think we know where the convention center will be built?

Who being "we?" I know as much about what people want as you do. I read your blog.

[betts]

I will add on to that for context. Two of the drawings show the route "touching" core-to-shore on the proposed new boulevard.

Question would be, do you think that a streetcar connection to the new Central Park and Convention Center is vital? If so, do you think that we should use MAPS 3 money to facilitate that connection or save that money and provide that connection as a "built-in cost" to the new Boulevard budget?

We know where the park is going and that there is the money to build it. That is a certainty.

If we could be sure that monies from the new boulevard would be used to construct a link to the Central Park and/or Convention Center (hoping it might be located separately) then I wouldn't mind waiting. However, if that's just a hope and far from a certainty, then I would like the connection to Union Station at least as part of the first line. Again, if we are going to argue that development follows the streetcar, what better way to jumpstart Core to Shore? I agree it will be a long time before it's completely done, but Core to Shore stretches to the River, and that timeframe encompasses a lot more territory than the Central Park. Undoubtedly, the line would have to be extended south at least.

I'm afraid that, without the streetcar, Central Park will end up like Will Rogers Park.....unutilized because of its location. If we don't have something drawing people there, what will draw development?

And I'm confused. It looks as if the streetcar plans as draw go to Bricktown. Am I again reading them wrong?

[okclee]

Steve has me a little confused as well.

I have looked at all 3 proposed routes. All go through bricktown and all 3 go to Cox center.

As far as core to shore. Going along the south side of the Ford Center is far enough south. I do think it should take this route.

[okclee]

Question for everybody: the Urban Land Institute study suggests Core to Shore will take 50 years to develop. Should this area be reserved for future expansion of the system? Where should development be prioritized - in Core to Shore or the empty gaps in Deep Deuce/Flat Iron, MidTown and the Arts District?

To answer your questions.

Core to Shore, no further south than already shown. I do like the route running to the south of the Ford Center.

Priority should be deep deuce, midtown, and arts district over Core to Shore.

[betts]

Considering the new entrance to the Ford Center will be south of it, then it does make sense to run the line there. Also, were we to get the Cotton Gin site as the convention center, then we've got a line there as well.

[Urban Pioneer]

Who went tonight?

[Steve]

I was there. I got my questions answered as well.