Why are some Tulsans upset the thunder are called "okc"?

[soonerfan_in_okc]

What I find interesting is so many people here even care what anyone else thinks...

I really haven't seen any posts from Tulsans claiming to be upset.. I haven't really seen any Tulsans saying anything at all about the Thunder..

What I *do* see are a bunch of people stating what they *think* Tulsans are saying/thinking as if it were fact without anything to back them up..

Just more of the same from this forum..

This is where I saw people bitching. Just read any of the threads on the thunder.
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?board=27.0

This is a really Dumb and irrelevant discussion

Not sure why you see it that way. If Tulsa has a legitimate argument, then it needs to be brought up.

[dcsooner]

This is where I saw people bitching. Just read any of the threads on the thunder.
Sports Talk


Not sure why you see it that way. If Tulsa has a legitimate argument, then it needs to be brought up.

My position is that Tulsa does not have a legitimate argument for the reasons previously stated. The team is named Oklahoma City so whether or not Tulsans like it is a mute point. The fact that the team is not named Oklahoma Thunder in no way takes away from the great amount of positive exposure recieved from them being in OKLAHOMA.

My position stated on a Tulsa board:
YoungTulsan
City Father

Offline

Posts: 1138


Re: Oklahoma's NBA team makes the playoffs!
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2010, 01:19:29 am »

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If you aren't impressed by the Thunder this year, you aren't a fan of professional basketball, just some casual onlooker putting some politicized opinion on something out there to hear yourself speak.

[fuzzytoad]

This is where I saw people bitching. Just read any of the threads on the thunder.
Sports Talk

I see.. Did you invite any of those people over here to take part in your discussion?

[soonerfan_in_okc]

I see.. Did you invite any of those people over here to take part in your discussion?

I had no idea that I was required to invite people anytime i have a discussion involving 2 parties. But nice attempt at trying to save yourself fuzzy.

[fuzzytoad]

I had no idea that I was required to invite people anytime i have a discussion involving 2 parties. But nice attempt at trying to save yourself fuzzy.

Save myself from what?

I just wanted to know where all these upset tulsans were, and now I just want to know why they aren't involved in the discussion..

[Laramie]

It's really not in the best interest of this board to invite people from other forums to our "civil" forum because of the possibility of an all out forum war! I understand that!

Some Seattle posters wouldn't refrain from insanity and profanity--the same could be said for some Tulsa posters!

It wouldn't take much to get an Oklahoma City vs. Tulsa debacle going on; there appears to be some bad blood between inhabitants of both cities which runs past blood lines all the way to ancestry DNA; both cities are blood-thirsty rivals in just about every endeaver!

[Floyd]

Tulsan here (currently in Dallas, but literally fly the flag of Oklahoma outside my house). Not angry, just a bit indifferent. Here's the narrative as I see it:

OKC told the league that Oklahoma would be a statewide market. They were told that Tulsa was an hour away and Tulsans would flock down the turnpike. The league saw that as a big part of the draw. The state legislature voted on a special subsidy. Tulsa's mayor was a big part of the courtship. Oklahoma seemed one big happy family.

The commissioner of the league (most likely influenced by this marketing) suggested that the team should be named Oklahoma, following the lead of other smaller-market teams such as Utah and Indiana. Mick Cornett and Clay Bennett pointedly refused. It then became clear that this would be Oklahoma City's team, not the whole state's.

That's one Tulsan's point of view. It's your team, not something we share. I'm a Mavs fan because I live in Dallas. If I still lived in Tulsa I'd probably just still follow the teams I did before. I enjoyed the Thunder's unlikely success, and rooted for them against the Lakers, but don't blame me for not being a fan. This is OKC's team, not Tulsa's. And that's how you wanted it.

[betts]

If someone chooses not to support a team because of the name, I must admit I'm flabbergasted. I used to be a Mavs fan, despite the fact that they weren't called the Texoma Mavericks. We were considered part of their market, but no one bothered to acknowledge that fact when naming the team. I suppose I shouldn't be a Dallas Cowboys fan for the same reason. I'm planning on supporting the Tulsa Shock....will go to a few games and watch them on tv. And yet, despite the fact that they were bought by people from OKC, I'm not holding the fact that they aren't the Oklahoma Shock against the team, the owners or Tulsans in general. It would seem rather small-minded of me to do so.

[redrunner]

Betts, you hit the nail on the head.

[Floyd]

Don't be flabbergasted. In the words of Jerry Seinfeld, "We're rooting for laundry!" I don't hold the name on the laundry against the team, but it means I'm rather indifferent instead of a fan. I think this reflects the views of many Tulsans.

EDIT: To make the point more clearly, I believe we become sports fans through socialization, with a geographic focus. In other words, social pressures create fans, which is why you're a Cowboys fan even though the clothes say "Dallas." What if Gainesville suddenly had a new football team--or Ardmore? You'd need another compelling reason to switch allegiance and become a fan. In Tulsa's case, that compelling reason could have been state pride. But when OKC decided the team would be named after the city, represent the city, and be the city's team, Tulsa collectively shrugged. We didn't grow up there. We don't live there. We live in Oklahoma, not OKC. It's not hate, it's not that we're upset. It's that we lack any emotional connection to the OKC Thunder franchise. Now, thirty years from now, that my change, as young people will grow up with the team and perhaps form an attachment through that process of socialization based on geography. But as of this moment, it hasn't happened yet.

[HOT ROD]

Floyd, your argument above is fundamentally flaw'd.

You mention that people are Cowboys' fans even though merchandise says Dallas, then you turn around and say it's ok for Tulsan's NOT TO BE Thunder fans because it says OKC.

In truth, the city stuff only really matters in the US. In China, the team is known as the Thunder; just like every other team in the NBA is known by it's name and not necessarily by the city. Im in China and I know this is how the NBA is promoted here. Also, players are promoted, especially Kobe, LeBron, Durant.

In my thinking, I think it was a good idea for the team to be OKC because:

1) OKC residents did pony up the money for the stadium, it's expansion and practice facility

2) OKC owners bought, litigated, and moved the team to their hometown (no money from the state, Tulsa, or anybody else)

3) There is no way Tulsa or any other tertiary city can lay claim to supporting the franchise (it's very easy to see where the season tix holders are from; and despite a number of them coming from Tulsa, many also come from Wichita, Amarillo, other parts of OK, KS, TX, MO, and AR too; but the bulk come from OKC metro and OKC itself no doubt). I don't see/hear anybody from outside of Tulsa complaining about the team's name, this despite more people living outside of Tulsa in the remainder of the state (1.3+m people live in Oklahoma outside of Tulsa and OKC metro areas, Tulsa CSA/Green Country is 900K). ...

4) Despite being a small market, OKC needed the marketing to be separate from Oklahoma [want to cause confusion? call the team Oklahoma and then you just diminished or competed against the #1 brand label in the state - the OU Sooners, who already get PLENTY of marketing]

5) Tulsa's mayor ONLY showed up for the photo op, which in reality had little if anything to do with actually securing the team. Most people with half a brain could have figured out that Tulsa might be included in OKC's tertiary market, just like Seattle included Spokane and Tacoma. ....

Tulsa's mayor showing up wasn't a BIG reason for OKC getting the team, the biggest reason was 1) an arena 2) a city willing to support a team 3) ownership committed to said city and said city's leadership committed to said team and 4) the NBA wanted OUT of SEATTLE and wanted a new market that would support it's newest superstar(s).

6) regardless of what nice-minded Tulsan's come here to say - those others who are upset about the name wanted it to be Oklahoma and regular season games in Tulsa so it could masquerade as their team. Plain and Simple. ...


I agree there is bad blood, but from an OKC expat's point of view I point most of that blame to Tulsa and many of their residents' sense of entitlement. They have always tried to be superior to instead of 'helping' this state. Even if Tulsan's would say thier things as "Oklahoma", it would NOT be to embrace the state but instead they would do it to pretend the state is ONLY Tulsa.

Also, I notice how people on here say something about Tulsa or their opinion, then defend Tulsa with this 'pretty city' crap. Last time I was up there, I didn't see anything pretty about it and noted that OKC had moved into a different league. Perhaps that is what many up there are most upset about, they can't culture shock OKC anymore because it is just too far big and rising?

I think Tulsan's should enjoy what they have (Tulsa Shock WNBA, Tulsa 66ers D-League) because that is more than they had before and both teams are owned by OKC people; despite not putting OKC or Oklahoma on those teams.

If they sit back and keep bitchin' about not having this or that, they will look up and the WNBA will be gone. Whose fault will it be then?

[betts]

EDIT: To make the point more clearly, I believe we become sports fans through socialization, with a geographic focus. In other words, social pressures create fans, which is why you're a Cowboys fan even though the clothes say "Dallas." What if Gainesville suddenly had a new football team--or Ardmore? You'd need another compelling reason to switch allegiance and become a fan. In Tulsa's case, that compelling reason could have been state pride. But when OKC decided the team would be named after the city, represent the city, and be the city's team, Tulsa collectively shrugged. We didn't grow up there. We don't live there. We live in Oklahoma, not OKC. It's not hate, it's not that we're upset. It's that we lack any emotional connection to the OKC Thunder franchise. Now, thirty years from now, that my change, as young people will grow up with the team and perhaps form an attachment through that process of socialization based on geography. But as of this moment, it hasn't happened yet.

I sometimes think Lawton is as passionate about the Thunder as Oklahoma City. We have people from the panhandle who have season tickets, as well as Wichita. It's not all about Oklahoma City to any of them, it's about the team. Or perhaps it's about state pride for some of them. If Tulsa got an NFL team, I would switch allegiance (actually I'm a Vikings fan, the Cowboys thing was just to make a point), or at least given them joint allegiance since I'm a Vikings fan from birth. That would be about state pride to me, regardless of whether they were the Tulsa _________ or the Oklahoma ________. Especially if yall built the stadium with Tulsa tax dollars and had a Tulsa owner. I think people from Tulsa who use the name as an excuse not to support the team don't really care that much about about sports to begin with, or it's a city versus city thing. Because we should all be celebrating the fact that Oklahoma finally has enough gravitas to have professional sports. be it the Oklahoma City Thunder, the Tulsa Shock or the Tulsa 66ers. That's a pretty amazing thing, considering what Oklahoma was like when I moved here, pretty Tulsa included.

[BDP]

What's funny is how many major league teams don't even play in the city whose name is on their uniforms, yet no one complains about it and people come from much farther away than Tulsa is from Oklahoma City to support those teams. Yet, Tulsa's Mayor comes to a press conference and that suddenly undoes all the money Oklahoma City and Oklahoma City businesses invested on the road to landing an NBA team? That's insane.

And the state incentives made available to the Thunder are available to companies that locate in Tulsa as well. In those cases, we still don't dictate what the names of those companies are.

I can understand some being indifferent because the team does not play in their market, but suggesting that their support is contingent on a name change is just petty. That's like saying the 49ers need to change the name from the San Francisco 49ers to the Northern California 49ers or people in Redding will stop supporting the team. And they're probably going to be playing in Santa Clara soon, too! LOL.

Again, if someone is indifferent to the team because they don't like the NBA, or that they don't play in their market, or that they are a fan of another team, then that makes complete sense. But if they say they don't care specifically because the team is named Oklahoma City and not Oklahoma, then that's just kind of childish. And, really, it's their loss as this is a fun team by any standard and the Ford Center has one of the best environments to see a game in the whole of the NBA.

[Laramie]

What is really upsetting Tulsa is the fact that they have taken a back seat to Oklahoma City--OKC has become big league and to really pile in on OKC's farm team is located in Tulsa. I feel that's why they don't support the 66ers.

What OKC MAPs projects have and will generate goes far and beyond:

Oklahoma City's public investment in this new package is $777 million; it will probably generate more than $5 billion plus in private investments based on what occurred with the previous MAPS.

The Oklahoma City Museum of Art was private. Many of the projects on the Oklahoma River are private.

MAPS was the catalyst for Devon Energy remaining in OKC or it would have relocated to Houston. Now the $750 million office tower is going up--Myriad Gardens improvements are being funded by Devon. Project 180 is in progress and Oklahoma City will leave Tulsa dead in their tracks like an idled old antique train.


Yet, people in Tulsa believe that we are stupid for passing and continuing to extend this one-cent sales tax which has generated a massive economic impact--calling it millionaires' welfare!

Sure they are jealous!

Oklahoma City is like the new magnificantly groomed hostess who has invested in a new wardrobe. Tulsa is like Scarlett O'Hare parading around in that ole dress from the estates' mansion drapes.

[HOT ROD]

we should give the farm team to Wichita then, Im sure they would support it and would LOVE to have some big league love (and see/support developing players) and have a tie-in to OKC.

I would move the 66ers to Wichita as soon as the lease with whatever arena they play at in Tulsa is over. Im POSITIVE wichita would welcome the team with open arms.

[SoonerBent]

One more thing to add to what Hot Rod said a few posts ago. There is also the fact that OKC fans proved to the NBA that we could support a team by filling the arena for two years of Hornets games when A) they weren't our team and B) at least for the first year they weren't very good.

Side note. The Redhawks were named Oklahoma at their inception to be the "state" team. I'm glad they renamed them Oklahoma City. They too are ours, not anyone else's.

[Laramie]

One more thing to add to what Hot Rod said a few posts ago. There is also the fact that OKC fans proved to the NBA that we could support a team by filling the arena for two years of Hornets games when A) they weren't our team and B) at least for the first year they weren't very good.

Side note. The Redhawks were named Oklahoma at their inception to be the "state" team. I'm glad they renamed them Oklahoma City. They too are ours, not anyone else's.

Let me give you some background on the name Oklahoma Redhawks!

In 1997 Mayor Norick received a phone call from the NHL on a Friday telling him to get a press conference ready for Monday of the next week. That's how close we were to getting an NHL team. Columbus made one last minute pitch in which Nation-wide Mutual INS/Papers of Columbus agreed to naming rights if an arena were to be built. They provided 90% or the initial financing of Nationwide Arena (Total cost = $175 million) for indefinite naming-rights.

Columbus was a bigger market than Oklahoma City and the NHL questioned whether Oklahoma City could build an NHL ready-arena with $89 million. What was unclear at the time--the bundled land acquisition (separate issue) for all the projects on downtown OKC accounted for something in the neighborhood of $16 million (ballpark, canal, library, arena).

All of the merchandising went full steam ahead and we later discovered that the 4th and final franchise was awarded to Columbus, OH (Bluejackets).

Ron Norick was just told to get a press conference ready--the NHL didn't confirm that final expansion franchise until Monday of the following week.

Nashville -1998, Atlanta - 1998, Minnesota (St. Paul) 2000, Columbus - 2000 were awarded teams and Oklahoma City and Houston were left out in the cold.

Oklahoma's NHL team was to be called the Oklahoma Redhawks. The 89ers picked up rights to the name when Southwestern Bell Bricktown Ballpark opened; the team was later renamed Oklahoma City Redhawks.

[sgt. pepper]

WOW.....to bad the NHL and the NBA plays the same time of the year. I think the Barons will do well. Who knows, maybe OKC will have an NHL team in the future.

[Yahola]

Yeah go ahead and move the 66'ers to Wichita. OKC is so much better the streets are paved with gold and money falls from the sky.

[demoman2k10]

Ok its the Dallas Cowboys, the Dallas Mavericks. Oklahoma City Thunder... Get over the jelousy if you want a Sports team of your own Tulsa go out and RECRUIT ONE!!

[Laramie]

Stop the madness! Why can't we all just get along!

With the BOK Center in Tulsa which would be a viable NHL arena why shouldn't OKC-Tulsa businessmen pull together and try to lure the NHL to Tulsa and this could become one major market shared by two comparable cities?

Minneapolis-St. Paul are sharing with the NBA Timberwolves in Minneapolis and the NHL Wild in St. Paul.

I see so much fighting going on between posters here and the Tulsa Now forum, it's as though some of the Tulsa posters will never get over their "hate" for Oklahoma City; believe me, it's right up there with the Seattle Posters on the NBA in Seattle Times forum--they're still hating on us. I can understand Seattle's attitude toward OKC; however, Tulsa is right here in the same state.

[SkyWestOKC]

Minneapolis and St. Paul are like Dallas and Ft. Worth. This would be like Tampa and Jacksonville sharing a team.

[earlywinegareth]

Too much generalization here...you can't say "Tulsa people say this" or "OKC people say that". 1 or 2 posters saying the same thing do not speak for an entire city. I know it's obvious, but people seem to forget quickly...

[HOT ROD]

Tulsa businessmen can go get their own teams, just like OKC businessmen did for OKC. There's no reason for OKC businessmen to make Tulsa major league. ... Sorry Laramie, you lost me with that proposal. ...

[Oil Capital]

Too much generalization here...you can't say "Tulsa people say this" or "OKC people say that". 1 or 2 posters saying the same thing do not speak for an entire city. I know it's obvious, but people seem to forget quickly...

Quite true. A good number of the core group of TulsaNow posters give a very poor impression of Tulsans