Liquor laws holding back Grocers to open

[mugofbeer]

Couldn't agree more.

And the worst part is, the status quo is maintained by this fake neo-conservative "don't we want to protect the liquor store owners from big, mean retail?" line.

neo-conservative??!!! You've got that totally bass-ackwards.

[betts]

I suspect it has more to do with one specific special interest group and neither party's representatives are immune to their "logic".

[OKCMallen]

neo-conservative??!!! You've got that totally bass-ackwards.

Not in my experience discussing this issue.

[metro]

I have a feeling this thread will still be alive in 2015

[OKCMallen]

I suspect it has more to do with one specific special interest group and neither party's representatives are immune to their "logic".

betts, FTW!

[Midtowner]

"don't we want to protect the liquor store owners from big, mean retail?" line.

... so sayeth the folks who also happen to shop at Wal-Mart, seeing no hypocrisy.

Hey, if SOME market protections for mom 'n pop stores and wholesaler oligopolies exist and that's good, wouldn't more be better? We should have vegetable stores and protected vegetable wholesalers... butcher shops need to be protected too. Think of all the people we could protect!

[ljbab728]

That's laughable. I hate Wal-mart. I do love the first Whole Foods experience I had. Read more.

I never said you liked Walmart, I said Walmart Syndrome meaning that you like to get everything at the same store.

[rcjunkie]

To me this goes way beyond alcohol and our ability to recruit upscale grocery stores. It is just a dumb, pointless law.

If you owned a Liquor Store and depended on it to make a living, you would feel differently.

[Thunder]

Back to the topic. I just want to say that our state's liquor laws is NOT holding back Grocers from opening here. It is very simple to establish their stores here WITHOUT selling liquor. The special space for selling liquor can be used to sell whatever random while lobbying for a change in the laws. If successful, then sell hardcore liquor.

[progressiveboy]

If you owned a Liquor Store and depended on it to make a living, you would feel differently.

I see your point, however, we are a capitalistic society that engages in a free enterprise system. "Competition" is good because it keeps businesses on their toes. The liquor laws in Oklahoma are antiquated and if the small liquor store owners do not want the competition then they need to be prepared for a fight. If the people of Oklahoma vote for change and it passes then the "will" of the people have spoken.

[mugofbeer]

I see your point, however, we are a capitalistic society that engages in a free enterprise system. "Competition" is good because it keeps businesses on their toes. The liquor laws in Oklahoma are antiquated and if the small liquor store owners do not want the competition then they need to be prepared for a fight. If the people of Oklahoma vote for change and it passes then the "will" of the people have spoken.

I am not convinced that the issue with grocers has that much to do with liquor. You can't go to a grocery in Dallas and buy strong beer, wine or liquor. You can't go to a grocer in Colorado (with the exception of one "flagship" store per grocer brand) and buy strong beer, wine or liquor. Yet in both of these states you have far more grocery choices than in OKC. Liquor might be one consideration but I think its more the overall customer willingness to buy higher margin items in the grocery vs. Wal Mart such as charcoal, patio furniture, OTC medicines or higher cost meats.

[OKCMallen]

I think we've established in this thread it's not ONLY the liquor laws. Case-in-point: Lubbock, TX.

[OSUFan]

If you owned a Liquor Store and depended on it to make a living, you would feel differently.

Sure I would. Does that mean we shouldn't let grocery stores sell flowers so flowers stops stay in business?

Truth be told, I'm less worried about buying my beer at a grocery than some of the other factors. At least let the liquor stores sell cold beer.

[OKCMallen]

If you owned a Liquor Store and depended on it to make a living, you would feel differently.

Horrible argument. Not even an argument really. An appeal to emotion.

[hoya]

My understanding is that the current liquor laws are very popular in the country. In the city, people are more ready to reform them. But overall, I think the last numbers I saw showed that reform of this sort is unpopular with the majority of the population. Too bad, really.

[metro]

My understanding is that people want to keep whining about this issue until the end of time, even though we just landed a upscale grocery many swore wouldn't come here until we changed our "antiquated" liquor laws, that many other states have, including the progressive ones like (Colorado, New York, Texas, Penn, etc.).

[decepticobra]

oklahoma doesnt even need national retail grocery chains, regardless of what our liqour laws indicate. even if hard liquor was legalized for sale in grocery stores, national chains would still have a hard time keeping up with low-cost stores, namely crest foods, which has low overhead and buys directs from many manufacturers.

[squigglyline]

You can't go to a grocery in Dallas and buy strong beer, wine or liquor.

Incorrect. While there are dry areas, you can walk into many, many grocery stores and get strong beer and wine all over Dallas and the surrounding areas.

[mugofbeer]

Incorrect. While there are dry areas, you can walk into many, many grocery stores and get strong beer and wine all over Dallas and the surrounding areas.

If you can, that is a new development and not available in most areas. When I lived there for 13 years all you could get was weak beer, just like here. In fact, you couldn't even get strong beer in many communities, period. You had to drive to Dallas, Hickory Creek or Ft. Worth proper to find a liquor store.

[bluedogok]

If you can, that is a new development and not available in most areas. When I lived there for 13 years all you could get was weak beer, just like here. In fact, you couldn't even get strong beer in many communities, period. You had to drive to Dallas, Hickory Creek or Ft. Worth proper to find a liquor store.

I lived there in 91-93 and could buy strong beer or wine at the Simon David at Skillman & Abrams, there was also a liquor store in the parking lot at Sigel's. I lived on Forest Lane just east of 635 and it was "dry", the wet/dry line was the creek that crossed Greenville just south of Royal Lane and flowed into White Rock Lake, that is why there are all the liquor stores just south of the Royal Oaks Golf Course, also the Sam's at Park Lane had beer/wine and was relocated from Garland which was dry. Also the "town" of Buckingham in Richardson was wet and had about as many liquor stores visitors as residents (here is the Wikipedia entry of Buckingham).

Dallas County is by voting district, so you can have three "dry" corners and one "wet" corner but yet still have "private clubs" and Uni-Card sales in bars/restaurants. Dallas County has some of the most screwed up liquor laws.

[mugofbeer]

I lived in N. Dallas, Irving, Grapevine and Lewisville and never had one near me except Hickory Creek near Lewisville. No grocery sales in any location.

[bluedogok]

I just knew of how it was around my area, I knew most of Richardson and Garland were dry but the Sam's in Plano on Coit had beer/wine so I always thought Collin County was wet. The mid-cities/Fort Worth areas I knew nothing about.

[Nermel]

Sorry for the delay in posting. I am well aware that anyone can "plan ahead" and make their purchases before 9pm on a Saturday. However, if we are going to mess with our laws concerning strong beer & wine sales in grocery stores - we are missing an oppertunity to rid ourselves of a blue law that needs to go.

I will have a difficult time voting in favor of a measure that deals strictly with strong beer & wine that doesn't address liqour store hours. Besides, if people can buy wine at a grocery store, one would assume that liqour stores would hurt from this, somewhat. Might as well let them stay open later and on Sunday to help them make up for a loss in revenue if they have to compete with grocery stores.

[Midtowner]

If you can't make it past Sunday without a drink after running out of alcohol, then you need to find an AA meeting.

[OKCMallen]

If you can't make it past Sunday without a drink after running out of alcohol, then you need to find an AA meeting.

You're better than this, Mid.

How about this: If you can't make it past Sunday without a tank of gas for your car, you're an idiot.