Midtown

[Spartan]

Hot Rod, The planning you seem to want is planning that tells new retailers to our city WHERE they should (or even should be allowed to) locate. Read your long ranting post about SC and AA again. You make it sound like the City of OKC has done something terrible by "allowing" Rawhide to put their store in AA. Planning developments is one thing - telling retailers where they can, and cannot, put stores is ridiculous. THAT'S what I mean when I write of your continuing love for Central Planning. By the way, Central Planning and a Master Plan are two very different things.

And yes, there are obvious exceptions when a city SHOULD tell a retailer it simply cannot locate in a given place (health, safety, whatever). But choosing one area of town over another is not a reason.

Exactly. The beautiful thing about city planning is that you don't really dictate where a bathroom goes in one building and what kind of business sets up in another, so long as it's not a whorehouse or a smoke shop. A-Alley represents a huge success in the making from a planning standpoint. We put the streetscape in. We marketed the district's new and improved identity, the identity caught on--now developers have bought in and are making things happen. New businesses, restaurants, lofts, and more are constantly coming to the district. The diversity of the businesses feed off of each other. On Broadway there will be Rawhide, and until they move to Classen Curve (sadly), there is the ultramodern BD Home one block over on 9th, and also on 9th is another furniture store Steve Mason has alluded to building on the Christmas tree lot.. that's critical mass, that's urban, and that's diversity.

[okclee]

Noticed grand opening sign for the restaurant across from The Sieber on 12th and Hudson.

Kabobs, gyros, and burgers, didn't see the restaurant name it may have been covered by grand opening banner.

[HOT ROD]

mike, I appreciate your opinion. but you missed my point and that was probably because I started ranting off - I appologize.

Now, to be clear - I am very happy that Rawhide is coming to downtown. dont get me wrong, I am excited about it and think it will do good for AAlley and downtown in general.

....

now to my rant - I think the city should have a master plan, because right now, we have a hodge podge of amenities scattered all over the place. most well planned cities are appreciated by visitors and businesses because amenities are close together or 'predictable', easy enough to get to. in OKC, this is not always the case - as we have stuff here and stuff there. this is a problem, to me and could be why many have a less desireable impression of OKC or think OKC is 'boring'.

a master plan does not DICTATE to a business what goes there, it only sets forth the city's desire to develop itself. OKC has most amenities that other big cities have, but you'd have to drive all over the place to even get to 'see it'. Most visitors, especially those from compact cities, will view this as an inconvenience and 'backwater'; hence OKC's labels of fame.

If you want to shed this - there are some very simple things that the city can do, one of which is to develop master plans and enforce codes. ....

[jbrown84]

Hot Rod, What's with all the love for central planning? I don't expect my municipal government to determine what retail stores go where. If Rawhide thinks AA is the place to be - why would the city government have any interest in telling them they "need" to be in Stockyard City? This a business decision that should be made by Rawhide - period

I have to agree. That's taking it a little too far. If the Stockyards main street organization wanted to try to recruit them, that would be different, but that's not what Hot Rod is talking about.

instead today it is hodge podge and mostly random people writing what they want to promote (or more frankly, whose businesses they want to promote).

That's just not true at all. Look at any of the various official and unofficial tourist guides. I imagine you haven't seen any as you aren't local.

most well planned cities are appreciated by visitors and businesses because amenities are close together or 'predictable', easy enough to get to. in OKC, this is not always the case - as we have stuff here and stuff there.

I just don't know where you're getting this. I think you said similar things in the Toy Museum thread. Almost all of OKC's attractions, restaurants, shopping, and nightlife are concentrated in areas. I can't really think of anything that's isolated by itself, except maybe Frontier City. Chicago has things spread out all over. Chicago has the Millennium Park/Art Institue/Grant Park area, Miracle Mile, the Field Museum/Science Museum area, Navy Pier, as well as other things off on their own somewhat like Second City, the Chicago History Museum, and the Botanical Gardens. OKC has Bricktown, Midtown, Western/Belle Isle, the Adventure District, Norman's museums, and the Arts District. I don't know how we could concentrate it any more without FORCING specific businesses and attractions into specific areas, which is just not organic at all. ALL our museums don't have to be in the Arts District. ALL the western-themed stuff doesn't have to be in the Stockyards. It's not like that anywhere else. Name one city that has ALL it's major museums in one walkable district.

[ljbab728]

I have to agree. That's taking it a little too far. If the Stockyards main street organization wanted to try to recruit them, that would be different, but that's not what Hot Rod is talking about.



That's just not true at all. Look at any of the various official and unofficial tourist guides. I imagine you haven't seen any as you aren't local.



I just don't know where you're getting this. I think you said similar things in the Toy Museum thread. Almost all of OKC's attractions, restaurants, shopping, and nightlife are concentrated in areas. I can't really think of anything that's isolated by itself, except maybe Frontier City. Chicago has things spread out all over. Chicago has the Millennium Park/Art Institue/Grant Park area, Miracle Mile, the Field Museum/Science Museum area, Navy Pier, as well as other things off on their own somewhat like Second City, the Chicago History Museum, and the Botanical Gardens. OKC has Bricktown, Midtown, Western/Belle Isle, the Adventure District, Norman's museums, and the Arts District. I don't know how we could concentrate it any more without FORCING specific businesses and attractions into specific areas, which is just not organic at all. ALL our museums don't have to be in the Arts District. ALL the western-themed stuff doesn't have to be in the Stockyards. It's not like that anywhere else. Name one city that has ALL it's major museums in one walkable district.

That's exactly what I was thinking. OKC isn't a planned amusement park. Like most cities, it and it's attractions have evolved over many years. It is nice to have various districts with similar attractions but it is very difficult for the city to force concentrations in particular areas.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Noticed grand opening sign for the restaurant across from The Sieber on 12th and Hudson.

Kabobs, gyros, and burgers, didn't see the restaurant name it may have been covered by grand opening banner.

Yea...noticed that a few weeks ago... the old Taste of the Carribean building. I've been meaning to try it.

[okclee]

Any news on the Olser building or 1212 Hudson in Midtown? I ask because I have heard a rumor on one of these.

[Steve]

Give them a chance to assess the actual fall-out from the switch from a moratorium to a deferral on the tax credits.

[DelCamino]

Just to clarify....

The City is not involved with the ownership group, MidTown Redevelopment. The City did not put any money toward the purchasing of the RedCross building site nor the demo of the building. It's funded privately.

[Urban Pioneer]

What about the Red Cross site? I understand that there is a "short list" of applicants? Who are they? Was an article written about this and I missed it?

[Paseofreak]

I was on the site walk for the RFP to conduct abatement and as an alternative proposal, site redevelopment. Man, that place was a wreck. All the floor tile, gypsym board, ceiling texture and roofing were Asbestos Containing Materials (ACM). Roof was rotted through with huge gaping holes. Concrete beams and columns were compromised well into the rebar. I don't think the building could have been economically salvaged without the burden of ACM.

Based on the companies represented on the site walk, I'd bet that all proposals stopped at abatement and demolition, and there very likely were not any short-listed developers.

I don't know if an EPA Brownfield Grant was used to pay for the environmental assessment ($200K potentially available for this), but the RFP was written in a very "green" fashion as one would expect if they were competing for another $200K remediation grant. They were looking to recycle metals, all of the exterior brick, and the pavement. There was a bee's nest on site and the contractor was required to capture and relocate the swarm. Both of the $200K grants are intended to provide for redevelopment of properties that are encumbered by actual or perceived environmental hazards that cannot be redeveloped otherwise. These funds do not have to be repaid, but the Grantee must show among other things, how the funds are leveraged to have an ongoing positive affect on the community that will spur further redevelopment.

Also, someone above noted that they were spraying the site with water during demo. All ACM was gone by that time. The water is to prevent fugitive dust from escaping the site.

[Larry OKC]

Just to clarify....

The City is not involved with the ownership group, MidTown Redevelopment. The City did not put any money toward the purchasing of the RedCross building site nor the demo of the building. It's funded privately.

Do you have a link on that?

Go back to page 8 of the thread...posts #198: Mayor Cornett, City of Oklahoma City Planning Dept (John Dugan, Terry taylor, Russell Claus & Jim Couch (City Manager) all listed.

& post #199 where the quoted article specifically says the City purchased the property.

[Paseofreak]

Just to clarify....

The City is not involved with the ownership group, MidTown Redevelopment. The City did not put any money toward the purchasing of the RedCross building site nor the demo of the building. It's funded privately.

I can tell you that my proposal for abatement and demo were requested by and submitted to the City of Oklahoma City Planning Department. Not sure where they went form there.

[neverontime]

Any news on the Olser building or 1212 Hudson in Midtown? I ask because I have heard a rumor on one of these.

A young pastor who is actually a strength coach at OSU will be renting the space for church services until he is able to build his own sanctuary.

The Net Church

[Spartan]

I was under the impression that the interiors of both the Osler and 1212 had been gutted. Guess I'm wrong?

As for the Red Cross, yeah that was city action. Not MidTown Redevelopment.

[DelCamino]

I can tell you that my proposal for abatement and demo were requested by and submitted to the City of Oklahoma City Planning Department. Not sure where they went form there.

City Staff was acting on the behalf of the ownership group. The MBD pays the City of the use of some staff to assist on this project, which is a byproduct of the 10th Street Medical District Plan.

The City itself has no money/cash in the purchase of the site.

[DelCamino]

...As for the Red Cross, yeah that was city action. Not MidTown Redevelopment.

Spartan, no the City was not involved in the purchasing of the Red Cross site. Please stop putting out false information about this transaction. Thanks.

[Spartan]

The Medical Business District is a public corporation. It's like saying the city had nothing to do with Bass Pro, that was OCURA. Obviously OCURA is a part of the city. MidTown Redevelopment was not involved in the Red Cross site although they are very glad to see it go. MDB is the group involved in the Red Cross site and that is a city group.

"In May 2007, the lead development agency, Medical Business District, Inc., engaged the services of the City of Oklahoma City to implement the plan."

That's government speak. http://www.okc.gov/Planning/tenthstreet/index.html

[Larry OKC]

City Staff was acting on the behalf of the ownership group. The MBD pays the City of the use of some staff to assist on this project, which is a byproduct of the 10th Street Medical District Plan.

The City itself has no money/cash in the purchase of the site.

Spartan, no the City was not involved in the purchasing of the Red Cross site. Please stop putting out false information about this transaction. Thanks.

Again do you have any links or articles that indicate that?

Guess you didn't want to go back to the post I mentioned, so I will repost it: From the article I originally linked in #178 Asbestos-Ridden American Red Cross Building Blocks Urban Redevelopment in Okalahoma City

According to Oklahoma City Planning Department Director Robbie Kienzle, the asbestos-laden, aging and abandoned Red Cross building is an ‘eyesore', but one soon to be removed thanks to the city's April 2008 purchase of the property for $690,000, and a possible U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) grant for $200,000 to remove the asbestos so the building can be torn down.

If you have an issue with what the person with the city is alledged to have said, you can contact her at

Robbie Kienzle, Urban Redevelopment Specialist
420 W. Main, 9th Floor
Oklahoma City, OK 73102
405 297-1740

(e-mail is available at the bottom of the page in Spartan's link to the City's website)

[Spartan]

Look DelCamino, I'm not against the city. I'm a fan of the city and a huge proponent of redevelopment and I want the best for MidTown. So I'm not trying to spread some conspiracy just the facts, and if the fact is that the city is NOT involved in this, please prove it to me because I really do want to know the facts. But I just don't see where there's any other conclusion, truthfully.

[DelCamino]

I've never said the City wasn't involved with the property/proposed projects. They are: The planning department, under an agreement with the MBD, provides staff support and assistance. What isn't true is that the City provided funds toward or is a part of the ownership of the property.

Public records such as the county assessor's office confirm this, as will the City itself, as will MBD, Inc. Anyway...as I've said, it's not that big of a deal. Accuracy has never been a hallmark of internet forums.

[Steve]

It's a public/private hybrid project. It involves a city staffer who is partially paid from private funds, and federal brownfield money obtained through the assistance of the city's planning department.
Anyone care to debate the driving distance from Tulsa to OKC?
Seriously guys, here's an idea: sometimes, without any intention of doing so, a correction comes off or is perceived as insulting online. Why not just PM the person with whom you disagree on the fact and then see if it can't be corrected that way? Why the need to show one is smarter than another?
Now, this is different from taking issue with a person's opinion, etc.

[Spartan]

I've never said the City wasn't involved with the property/proposed projects. They are: The planning department, under an agreement with the MBD, provides staff support and assistance. What isn't true is that the City provided funds toward or is a part of the ownership of the property.

Public records such as the county assessor's office confirm this, as will the City itself, as will MBD, Inc. Anyway...as I've said, it's not that big of a deal. Accuracy has never been a hallmark of internet forums.

So was the city or the private group the recipient of the EPA grant?

Is this a truly private group or is it a "quasi government authority" that essentially acts as a separate arm but makes up the larger city entity? Is MBD closer to OCURA (quasi govt) or the Bricktown Association (truly private)? That's all I'm trying to figure out.

100% of the factual evidence in this thread suggests it is a part of the city. DelCamino, what do you say about the articles that say "the city purchased..." ? What do you say about the board of the MBD which is made up entirely of the public it seems?

You already tried telling us that MidTown Redevelopment purchased the bldg and we know that to be untrue. The only evidence you've offered is to call the city, so perhaps we won't truly find out until Monday when I do call the city planning dept. You know, can't call on a Friday night, Saturday, Sunday...even though you've kept up the "call the city" refrain as if I've been lazy or something.

[wsucougz]

Just got a note from Midtown Renaissance on Facebook:

Midtown Renaissance All but one of our units are leased...if you're in the market for a luxurious 2 bed 2 bath apartment with a great balcony and a bonus office, you better give us a call fast! If you haven't got yours yet, don't worry! Our next apartment building is now underway...Hadden Hall @ 215 NW 10th will house 18 1/1 units...drive by and check it out!

[Architect2010]

It's a testament to the residential demand that is still there for downtown if offered in a desirable and affordable package. They got all three of those rehab residential buildings right. Let's hope they continue the quality work with Hadden and in their other retail/office projects.