Crawl for Cancer

[Steve]

okclee, it's not personal. But when an organization like this refuses to answer questions, I make it my mission to try even harder to get at the answers. It's called sticking to a story.

[OU Adonis]

You know if you took all the drinkers out of bricktown it would be a much less travelled area.

[kevinpate]

it's a for profit organization, not a non-profit, that sends "profits" to charities.
As to what constitutes profits, and what goes to recruiting, fundraising, advertising, merchandise, etc., etc., etc., well, they aren't an nfp, so probably the lion's share.

Not so different from the phone operators who raise funds for troopers, churches, kids, etc., but consume the lion's share of what's raised in costs, salaries, etc.

Did not participate, won't miss it not being there. Don't send my $$ to boiler room ops either. Just me. Others may see their mileage vary.

[OKCMallen]

I think it's a shame that it's been effectively canceled. Great money-maker for those involved.

Any time you're trying to sell binge drinking, though, public entities are going to have a tough time biting.

[OKCMallen]

Although I will say it's weird the local people won't get back with Steve. Did they pocket $$$ for being local organizers? Not that there's anything wrong with that really...

[OklahomaNick]

The problem was that it put the Bricktown “nightlife” crowd there during the day and a couple families witnessed what otherwise happens EVERY Thursday, Friday, and Saturday night after dark. Drinking and baboonery go hand in hand. You can’t have one without the other. Bricktown needs to define itself and clearly define what it will tolerate. Yeah it sucks that a few idiots ruined it for everyone. That’s always how things go down, but these occurrences happen OFTEN in Bricktown. The Pub Crawl was a Saturday afternoon and it rained that morning. I was there; trust me, Bricktown was NOT that busy other than the Pub Crawl. So they are going to cancel a charity event based on what a couple of families saw? I wish some people would quit snubbing their noses to the idea of drinking and the bar atmosphere because that’s what half of Bricktown consists of, and if you want to shove them away and make Bricktown a “Family Only” atmosphere like the message they have conveyed by cancelling future Pub Crawls then the consumers will go elsewhere.

Would be interesting to see what the Brewers have to say about this.

Maybe bars are Bricktown’s necessary evil..

[OKCMallen]

The problem was that it put the Bricktown “nightlife” crowd there during the day and a couple families witnessed what otherwise happens EVERY Thursday, Friday, and Saturday night after dark. Drinking and baboonery go hand in hand. You can’t have one without the other. Bricktown needs to define itself and clearly define what it will tolerate. Yeah it sucks that a few idiots ruined it for everyone. That’s always how things go down, but these occurrences happen OFTEN in Bricktown. The Pub Crawl was a Saturday afternoon and it rained that morning. I was there; trust me, Bricktown was NOT that busy other than the Pub Crawl. So they are going to cancel a charity event based on what a couple of families saw? I wish some people would quit snubbing their noses to the idea of drinking and the bar atmosphere because that’s what half of Bricktown consists of, and if you want to shove them away and make Bricktown a “Family Only” atmosphere like the message they have conveyed by cancelling future Pub Crawls then the consumers will go elsewhere.

Would be interesting to see what the Brewers have to say about this.

Maybe bars are Bricktown’s necessary evil..

Not even evil. I'm not sure why the offenders weren't treated brusquely by Nonna's (et al.) and arrested. Quick, easy, done.

The pub crawl made plenty of money for Bricktown. And for a thriving Bricktown, we need ALL of it.

I will say this- Bricktown is lucky that most of our other "districts" that are drinking districts aren't walkable. Very few people looking just for dfrinks would head down there. Imagine if the N. Western/Classen area were all walkable?

[Steve]

What I'm trying to ask here is: should the crawl for cancer folks have any remorse for what has been reported?

[dismayed]

What's interesting in this entire discussion, and forgive me if I've said this, is that there are plenty of Crawl for Cancer participants complaining about criticism of some of the bad behavior associated with this event, but no remorse expressed.

Steve, that is ridiculous. The very first post in this thread is stlokc saying sexual harrassment, public intox, etc. is never acceptable, followed by Spartan saying basically bad behavior such as this is never okay but hey how about these issues in favor of the C4C, followed by me saying basically the same thing and then listing half a dozen suggestions that the group might consider implementing to help curb that, followed by a somewhat pro C4C post from OSUFan that starts out with condemnation of the behavior of those you mentioned on your blog, and so on.

I just don't see how you can say that. Of course that behavior is terrible and those folks involved should have been either asked to leave or arrested if they were causing public disturbances. But I simply don't see how that effects the entire organization.

Did you cover the Tea Party rallies? Are you of the opinion that the entire party should be disbanded and no further public gatherings conducted because of the actions of a very few? If not, please explain to me the logical difference between this example and where you seem to be headed with this Pub Crawl discussion?

Why are you making the assumption that everyone who went to the pub crawl participates in unruly behavior in public, or at the very least doesn't think twice about people who do behave this way nor their consequences? Why would you make this statement? What are you trying to accomplish? Do you not see this as a blanket statement? As a reporter, do you not feel that blanket statements such as this are generally biased in their application?

[fuzzytoad]

Will you be writing about and performing as in-depth an investigation on the Mayfair benefit even for Mina the orphan this weekend?

There probably won't be any drinking, but they will be auctioning off tickets and gift certificates to place where you *can* drink and where people *might* get unruly..

I don't see any sort of financial information on the site for it stating how much money is raised and an expense report showing where the money actually went..

Plus, have you ever been to one of these garage sale events at 7 in the morning? I bet it's safer in Bricktown 5 hours earlier..

[amylynn5656]

I guess what I don't understand is why the way the organization runs itself is such a big deal. They are very clear that they are a for-profit organization and all of the bars, participants and even the Bricktown Association have been well aware of this since the event started in OKC. What does matter is that they have donated money to Cancer charities - if they were claiming that they donated money and they instead pocketed the cash - I could totally understand the issue. But in this case, it appears that money was actually donated to charities. Not sure why this companies financials are such a big issue.

[BrettL]

Steve, that is ridiculous. The very first post in this thread is stlokc saying sexual harrassment, public intox, etc. is never acceptable, followed by Spartan saying basically bad behavior such as this is never okay but hey how about these issues in favor of the C4C, followed by me saying basically the same thing and then listing half a dozen suggestions that the group might consider implementing to help curb that, followed by a somewhat pro C4C post from OSUFan that starts out with condemnation of the behavior of those you mentioned on your blog, and so on.

I just don't see how you can say that. Of course that behavior is terrible and those folks involved should have been either asked to leave or arrested if they were causing public disturbances. But I simply don't see how that effects the entire organization.

Did you cover the Tea Party rallies? Are you of the opinion that the entire party should be disbanded and no further public gatherings conducted because of the actions of a very few? If not, please explain to me the logical difference between this example and where you seem to be headed with this Pub Crawl discussion?

Why are you making the assumption that everyone who went to the pub crawl participates in unruly behavior in public, or at the very least doesn't think twice about people who do behave this way nor their consequences? Why would you make this statement? What are you trying to accomplish? Do you not see this as a blanket statement? As a reporter, do you not feel that blanket statements such as this are generally biased in their application?

100% agree. I did also find it odd that they did this in the middle of the day. Maybe 8-9 PM would be better?

[OSUFan]

The problem with doing it at night is that I doubt many Bricktown establishments would be as eager to participate. They rarely get any business on a Saturday afternoon so it works out well for all (except the people who witnessed lewd acts). That is just a guess but I imagine that has a lot to do with it.

[OKCMallen]

A lot of this comes from a puritanical hangover meeting an increasingly more progressive OKC. Traditional OKC is where everyone strives to be so NORMAL, never make a scene, etc. etc. Alcohol/being drunk is considered bad in an overly religiously judgmental city culture.

Well, that doesn't jive with the fact that we have bars where people get drunk. Never will jive. We have always had this weird don't-ask, don't-tell thing about bars and drinking around here. I'm not sure why. Personally, i think it's the heavily protestant population, but who really knows?

Are we, as a city, serious about public intox and DUIs? We're not THAT serious, because otherwise we'd arrest every drunk person that comes out of a bar and put them in the tank. Until then, let's save the self-righteous indignation about people being *gasp!* drunk in public. It's going to happen. We WANT it to happen. It's LEGAL. No one seriously thinks we should do anything legal to change it; people just like getting all worked up about it. It's an easy side to take.

Even during the day. Bars are OPEN during the day. Find me a restaurant/bar owner in Bricktown that will refuse to serve alcohol due to what time of day it is. Find me an owner in Bricktown that would voluntarily keep 1200+ people from coming to Bricktown on any given day.

Were there jackasses? You bet. Is trying to defend a pub crawl pretty non-PC? Yep. That's a tough sell. Is the B.A. allowed to try to ban "events"? I guess so. But is this event any different than St. Patrick's Day? Not at ALL.

I agree with Amy. All the consternation about whether or not CFC is a for-profit group. Hell, if they're putting together such fun pub crawls, I don't even care if they're donating to charity. I want to go have fun and I'll pay to do so. Would we rather them shed the apparent hypocrisy and simply NOT donate to charity?

They're a private company that doesn't HAVE to share financials. Steve, I had your back at first on the investigation. But at this point and more thought on my part, it's a little much. You can't just go demand to see a private company's financials. Well, I guess you can demand it...but it's borderline questionable behavior on your part to imply they're hiding something because they won't go public with their private data. They don't have to show you anything any more than the Thai Kitchen or my law firm does. And that's not shady on their part; that's just choosing not to make their sensitive business information public knowledge. It wouldn't normally make the front page of NEWSOK.COM if your request for financial information from any other private company were declined. I'm not going to tell you what's in my checking account right now, either. Or how I spend my money. (I will hint that a lot of it goes to the Racino at Remington, though, but I digress...)

Keep the issues separate:
1. Should the Bricktown Assoc. ban all pub crawls?

2. Is CFC being shady by pocketing profit even thoguh they largely advertise as seeming to be non-profit?

Steve, you seem to be attacking issue 2. Whch is fine. But it might be better if you unlinked the two because you're using issue 2 to hurt the credibility of CFC vis-a-vis issue 1.

[OKCMallen]

(Although, on Steve's behalf, he's really getting unfairly hammered by a lot of people who are angry about the CFC thing just because he's reporting it...)

[Downtowner405]

[QUOTE=Steve;328958]What I'm trying to ask here is: should the crawl for cancer folks have any remorse for what has been reported?[/QUOTE

1. Yes. They should have made a clear statement.
2. As they are a private, for-profit organization, they do not need to explain their revenue streams. A clear explanation of the percentage of revenue donated to charity is warranted, however.
3. They need to re-think how they do business. However, I think they're done in OKC.

Someone along this thread asked about what the Brewers may think of this issue. Although I would never presume to speak for them, I do know they are responsible corporate citizens who have been putting on events for many years. They work hard to promote safe events. You could probably extrapolate from there, what their reaction might be.

Is there an icon for beating a dead horse?

[jbrown84]

I think there is overreaction on both ends of the scale. "puritanical" is a pretty ridiculous term. Fact is, Bricktown is and has been for years an area targeted at families during the day that becomes a nightlife district at night. But this single event was bringing the drunken craziness to the daytime AND heightening it because of the binge-drinking aspect. If this were at Barmuda, Western, or even Midtown, it wouldn't be as big of a deal. It just happens that the issue raised some red flags on this "charity". It's really two different stories.

It's really funny that people complain that the Oklahoman never does any investigative journalism, and then the minute Steve goes hard after a big potential story that could have a national impact, he's accused of making a big deal out of nothing and beating a dead horse.

You know if you took all the drinkers out of bricktown it would be a much less travelled area.

Don't make this something it is not. There is a difference between nightlife and a binge-drinking event in the early afternoon on a Saturday.

Bricktown is family-friendly in the day and early evening, and transforms to a nightlife district after dark. It's worked fine until this event.

The pub crawl made plenty of money for Bricktown.

I thought it was supposed to be "charity"...

The problem with doing it at night is that I doubt many Bricktown establishments would be as eager to participate. They rarely get any business on a Saturday afternoon so it works out well for all

I thought it was supposed to be "charity"...

They are very clear that they are a for-profit organization and all of the bars, participants and even the Bricktown Association have been well aware of this since the event started in OKC.

I've talked to a lot of participants and potential participants who assumed that as a charity, it was a non-profit.

[OKCMallen]

I think there is overreaction on both ends of the scale. "puritanical" is a pretty ridiculous term. Fact is, Bricktown is and has been for years an area targeted at families during the day that becomes a nightlife district at night. But this single event was bringing the drunken craziness to the daytime AND heightening it because of the binge-drinking aspect. If this were at Barmuda, Western, or even Midtown, it wouldn't be as big of a deal. It just happens that the issue raised some red flags on this "charity". It's really two different stories.

It's really funny that people complain that the Oklahoman never does any investigative journalism, and then the minute Steve goes hard after a big potential story that could have a national impact, he's accused of making a big deal out of nothing and beating a dead horse.



Don't make this something it is not. There is a difference between nightlife and a binge-drinking event in the early afternoon on a Saturday.

Bricktown is family-friendly in the day and early evening, and transforms to a nightlife district after dark. It's worked fine until this event.



I thought it was supposed to be "charity"...



I thought it was supposed to be "charity"...



I've talked to a lot of participants and potential participants who assumed that as a charity, it was a non-profit.

What on earth are you talking about the charity thing? They give money to charity. It makes money for Bricktown. How are those opposed?

[jbrown84]

This should be about raising money for charity, not making a profit. We know that is not the case for the for-profit Crawl for Cancer, but I would like to think that Bricktown bars were involved to help a charity, not make money.