Whole Foods

[bluedogok]

If any federal money is involved then sidewalks are a requirement to get the funding, no matter what Paul Brum thought (I know, he is no longer with the city but he hated sidewalks). That is why you see accessible curb cuts at intersections to nowhere, the intersections probably had some federal money paying for it but the adjacent roads were not part of the funding.

[Larry OKC]

If any federal money is involved then sidewalks are a requirement to get the funding, no matter what Paul Brum thought (I know, he is no longer with the city but he hated sidewalks). That is why you see accessible curb cuts at intersections to nowhere, the intersections probably had some federal money paying for it but the adjacent roads were not part of the funding.

And where the curb cuts do exist, the City for whatever reason ignores them when they put in sidewalks a few years later. Sometimes as close to connecting to it as a foot and other times much further away (specifically the sidewalk/trail that was put in along SW Grand Blvd between May and Penn)

[HOT ROD]

Let's put a stop to all this size nonsense. I know there are those who just want to position OKC badly and want to present everything in the most negative way. They don't want facts to get in the way.

According to Whole Foods' corporate financials:

Average Size

Stores over eight years old 27,100
Stores between five and eight years old 30,500
Stores between two and five years old 36,000
Stores less than two years old (including relocations) 36,400
All stores in comparable store base 31,200
All stores open at the end of the first quarter 31,300

So, apparently this is right at the footprint they choose. Some are bigger, some are smaller but obviously 35,000 ft is right in their sweet spot. My guess is that they increased size over the last 5 years as a result of their acquisitions.

I trust they are building the size that gives them the best opportunity to maximize their investment and is scaled for the actual site. Just a good business decision.

So can we just stop the childish "mine is bigger than yours".

Or MAYBE they want to build TWO at 35,000 ft in OKC area rather than ONE 45,000. Yeah, I bet that is it. One in Norman/south OKC and one in north central OKC.

here here,

I couldn't have said this better myself.

[metro]

I think people are going too crazy about the store size.

This store will be of urban design, most likely will have multiple floors (considering the site is a rather small footprint), and ALSO you have to figure there will may not be as much parking included - since it will be at a major employment campus AND be connected to other development which most likely would have 'campus' parking. .....

So, Subtract being over a parking garage and not having liquor (although it could be attached or next door), and you get the idea of what OKC could be getting. ...

People have said "I wish it were the size of this or that store", but those stores have parking garages included in the store's size. .... Maybe OKC's store will have just as much food 'floorspace' as the other big ones?

You would have to figure there would be at least two floors, 1 for ready made/classrooms/tasting/selling/cafe etc. space and the other floor for grocery sales. 35,000 divided by 2 = over 17,000 sq feet per floor. That's the size of Chase tower, Isnt it? Seems pretty big to me to have solely groceries and ready made foods/cafe.

What? That site is plenty big for a 35,000 store with at grade parking. Watch one of my videos that I recorded last week in the "metro's videos" thread. I only recorded half that site and it's more than big enough for a HUGE mixed-use development, let alone if you count the whole megablock. It could comfortably fit one of the 70,000sq. ft stores plus other retail/hotel/housing.

[Pete]

As I mentioned, WF recently relocated a store very close to me here in Southern California; it was an older store of about 18,000 sq. ft. and they moved to a 35,000 sq. ft. space just down the road. That new store is HUGE and everybody raves about the size and selection.

Remember they don't stock aisle upon aisle of big-brand soda, sports drink, water, and other bulk items. They also don't carry hardware and all the various sundries you see in a typical grocery store.

So, that 35,000 sq. ft. is devoted largely to food and lots and lots of prepared food. You compare that to a standard-sized grocery store of about 45,000 sq. ft. and you'll see that there is tons and tons of stuff in this size of a WF's.

I'll try and take some photos and post them because I think the store near me will be very close in not only size but in offerings. And I can assure you, it is impressive.

[ejillparker]

As I mentioned, WF recently relocated a store very close to me here in Southern California; it was an older store of about 18,000 sq. ft. and they moved to a 35,000 sq. ft. space just down the road. That new store is HUGE and everybody raves about the size and selection.

So, that 35,000 sq. ft. is devoted largely to food and lots and lots of prepared food. You compare that to a standard-sized grocery store of about 45,000 sq. ft. and you'll see that there is tons and tons of stuff in this size of a WF's.

Thank you!

Now can we speculate about who is going to design the building?

[brownb01]

Thank you!

Now can we speculate about who is going to design the building?

Chesapeake will own the land and the building. Who's designing it is easy.

[Spartan]

I know we all want to jump to Rand, but for some reason I think Whole Foods will insist on using their architects over (especially) Rand.

If people rave about the size and selection of a 35,000 sf Whole Foods, and considering I haven't been in the huger stores, I wonder what a 72,000 sf Whole Foods is like. It must be like an IKEA of organic produce.

[betts]

I've never been that impressed with the architecture of Whole Foods stores. The insides are always far better than the outsides. Perhaps it will be a collaboration, with Whole Foods dictating the footprint and Rand doing the exterior.

[bluedogok]

I know we all want to jump to Rand, but for some reason I think Whole Foods will insist on using their architects over (especially) Rand.

I posted a link in one of the WF threads to the architect that does most of their stores.

If people rave about the size and selection of a 35,000 sf Whole Foods, and considering I haven't been in the huger stores, I wonder what a 72,000 sf Whole Foods is like. It must be like an IKEA of organic produce.

Some of the square footage is dedicated to things other than product, like cooking demonstration/classrooms and such.

[metro]

I've never been that impressed with the architecture of Whole Foods stores. The insides are always far better than the outsides. Perhaps it will be a collaboration, with Whole Foods dictating the footprint and Rand doing the exterior.

Really? They're much nicer than any other grocery store I've seen by far, especially compared to the status quo around here, Walmart, Homeland or BFL.

I know we all want to jump to Rand, but for some reason I think Whole Foods will insist on using their architects over (especially) Rand.

If people rave about the size and selection of a 35,000 sf Whole Foods, and considering I haven't been in the huger stores, I wonder what a 72,000 sf Whole Foods is like. It must be like an IKEA of organic produce.

You should go to the Park Lane store next time your in Dallas, it's AMAZING. I'm kind of surprised the small selection on dry goods and some other areas, the produce selection and meat counters are wonderful.

[okclee]

I think the WF architecture is all over the map, design speaking. I have seen many in no more than a strip mall like Belle Isle or free standing building like a typical Okie walmart marketplace.

I do have high expectations for the CC WF.

[Spartan]

In all honesty, the Brookside WF is one of the better ones I've been to. Best ones I've been too are obviously downtown Austin and Westheimer and Wilcrest in the River Oaks are of Houston was surprisingly awesome.

I too have high hopes for this one. The site is pretty awesome, loaded with potential, if you ask me.

[betts]

I think the WF architecture is all over the map, design speaking. I have seen many in no more than a strip mall like Belle Isle or free standing building like a typical Okie walmart marketplace.

I do have high expectations for the CC WF.

I agree with this. One of the ones in Atlanta is in a strip mall that also has a Home Depot. Yes, the nicest ones are nicer than almost any grocery stores I've shopped in anywhere. But, personally, I think Rand can design a better one. That's just my personal opinion. Of course, I like Classen Curve and almost everything he's done, so that might be my bias speaking.

[Pete]

The newer stores are definitely more upscale and attractive than those built over 5 years ago.

[Spartan]

I agree with this. One of the ones in Atlanta is in a strip mall that also has a Home Depot. Yes, the nicest ones are nicer than almost any grocery stores I've shopped in anywhere. But, personally, I think Rand can design a better one. That's just my personal opinion. Of course, I like Classen Curve and almost everything he's done, so that might be my bias speaking.

I like Rand too, but I once made the mistake on my blog of suggesting that his architecture is popularly liked in Oklahoma. I got two emails from other prominent architects that I bet you know of telling me that they do not share the man crush on Rand. So it is what it is LOL.

[MikeOKC]

I like Rand too, but I once made the mistake on my blog of suggesting that his architecture is popularly liked in Oklahoma. I got two emails from other prominent architects that I bet you know of telling me that they do not share the man crush on Rand. So it is what it is LOL.

It's like any other kind of creative endeavors. Sometimes a writer is popular and is considered a literary "great," while 90% of the public would hate their style. Same with artists. Sometimes people think they're "supposed" to like a given writer, artist, architect, or whatever when deep down they think "eeeewwww." Personally, I think Rand falls into this category for a lot of people - even professionals in the field.

[bluedogok]

I haven't been much of a fan of his design work, what I really appreciate about him is his ability to attract clients that allow him to do the kind of work that he does and his challenging of the "architectural norm" in the city/state. I do not like I.M. Pei's work at all and after having to space plan in several of his Dallas buildings it gave me more of a disdain for his work but I could never fault him for being able to do that kind of work.

Just because I don't particularly like a design doesn't mean that I can't appreciate it.

[yessir69]

I just was at the WF on P Street in Washington. It was unbelievable. It had a town square atmosphere with the outdoor patio, outdoor cooking, flower shop, etc. Hope we get one like that...

[keving]

I believe Whole Foods here in OKC will be the anchor store to a strip of stores. Neighboring stores might include dry cleaners, hair salon, etc... and possibly a Whole Foods Liquor Store.

[Spartan]

I don't think we'll see a dry cleaners or that type of retail in this "strip mall." I will be very disappointed in Chesapeake's hyped-up Classen Curve/mixed-use development masterplan if the WF site does turn out to be a strip mall and it does have Mastercuts, California Nail, Scott Cleaners, etc..

[onthestrip]

If they can't sell wine and high point beer inside the grocery store, which they obviously can't, then I could care less if it's next door. I probably still wouldn't use it really. It wouldn't be anymore convenient than any other liquor store. Plus, I thnk it'd be a bad idea to have a liquor store in that development, whether It was done by whole foods or not.

[JerzeeGrlinOKC]

If they can't sell wine and high point beer inside the grocery store, which they obviously can't, then I could care less if it's next door. I probably still wouldn't use it really. It wouldn't be anymore convenient than any other liquor store. Plus, I thnk it'd be a bad idea to have a liquor store in that development, whether It was done by whole foods or not.

Why is having a liquor store in that development a bad idea? And why would having one next door not be convenient? Usually when people go food shopping, especially at high end places like WF, there is a high likelihood that they will want to have a drink with meals that they cook. Especially wine/beer and food pairings. If we can't get alcohol inside, at least having one next door is useful, like most states with similar liquor laws do. It is likely the best we can do for now, and it works.

I think a shop similar to Broadway Wine Merchants would be a great idea for the development.

[onthestrip]

Why is having a liquor store in that development a bad idea? And why would having one next door not be convenient? Usually when people go food shopping, especially at high end places like WF, there is a high likelihood that they will want to have a drink with meals that they cook. Especially wine/beer and food pairings. If we can't get alcohol inside, at least having one next door is useful, like most states with similar liquor laws do. It is likely the best we can do for now, and it works.

I think a shop similar to Broadway Wine Merchants would be a great idea for the development.

I just dont think its best to have a liquor store in an upscale development. Even if it is a nice one. I say it wouldnt be that convenient because there is already liquor stores everywhere, usually one within a mile of most homes. It would be super convenient if it was in the store and you could purchase food and wine at once. However, if there was one next door you would have to go purchase booze, put it in your hot car in the sun, then go in for 25 minutes to grocery shop and then come out to spoiled wine. Not really convenient. I dont see why everyone is hoping there will be a liquor store next door. Whole Foods offers stuff that you cant really get anywhere else, but a liquor store would have basically the same stuff as any other liquor store.

[HOT ROD]

strip, it wouldn't be just your 'common OKC liquor store', it would be an upscale 'destination-style' store. And if under the WF banner, it could be used for pairings as well as tasting and classes.

I could definitely see this working next door and HOPE that is the plan, since like others have mentioned - people who shop at upper end groceries usually buy wine (especially so) to have with their meals.