Crawl for Cancer

[MikeOKC]

Mike, I expected better out of you than a personal attack. I didn't make any of my responses personal. Perhaps you should do some soul-searching as well.

I went back and read what I wrote and I can see where it could have been taken as a personal attack. I didn't really mean it as such, but you're right. I edited the post. Sorry.

[Steve]

Cool! Civil discourse rules!

[dismayed]

Steve all I know is that there are plenty of games on TV that last about 4 hours and bars in Bricktown that have some pretty awesome deals on beer during those games. I fail to see the logical difference. And for what it's worth the Pub Crawl was not free beer -- the cost was $40 per person for the event.

And yeah 2006 is about right, and you're correct it wasn't in the fenced in Reggae area it was outside on the street and down a ways. I'm glad to hear that things are a bit calmer now.

So what is the root issue here? Was criminal activity taking place? Was there vandalism? I recall large groups of friendly people, and I recall walking past at least two officers on Sheridan. I can't believe they wouldn't have been able to pick out anyone who was rowdy from those who were not... did they arrest anyone? How many people?

[Steve]

Actually dismayed, I must tell you the truth on 2006: cops always felt it was the combination of two nightclubs along East Sheridan that was to blame for the violence that summer, not Reggaefest.
Criminal activity? Read my last blog post, read my coverage.... the woman I spoke to last night feared she was going to be attacked. Ask the guy who was hospitalized. Ask the guy who had a beer poured on him as he passed under the canal bridge ...
I ask again... are all these people lying? And if not, where is the remorse from all the folks who participated?
Logging off now... getting tired, but thanks for a good discussion.

[dismayed]

dismayed, read my blog post today. I've never heard these kind of complaints from people who were visiting Bricktown on a Saturday afternoon.
Another interesting tidbit: unless one assumes that all of these people are lying about what happened, does it trouble anyone that instead of expressing remorse for what happened, those who participated are just angry that their event is in jeopardy?

I'm not saying that you didn't hear these things. I just don't know how statistically significant what you have heard is. For all I know it could be anecdotal (e.g. maybe things like this just happen down there, I don't know).

Sure the whole thing is concerning, people shouldn't be doing bad things to one another at any time. I just don't understand why there is a push to ban something. Wouldn't you want to at least try to clean it up first? I mean heck as far as I can tell you identified the root cause -- give the OCPD a heads-up next time and get more folks down there on foot for the event. What logic drives a person to immediately jump past all of those hurdles and go straight for "ban it?"

[Steve]

Apparently this wasn't the first year they had problems. That and the binge drinking aspect. That was their logic.

[dismayed]

I went back and read what I wrote and I can see where it could have been taken as a personal attack. I didn't really mean it as such, but you're right. I edited the post. Sorry.

Ok no biggie.

[Spartan]

I just came across a few threads from other city forums about Crawl for Cancer. You should ALL check this thread out:

PUB Crawl for Cancer
From the KC Rag forum.

I was there last year. It was mostly drunk obnoxious guys puking for cancer. I especially liked the drunk guy being tackled and handcuffed in the street by police. His friends were shouting "He's raising money for charity. Let him go."

That being said, if it raises lots of money for cancer research and no one is seriously hurt, let people fry their livers.

Bathrooms aren't a problem if you're a guy and you're drunk. The world is your bathroom.

In Houston the HPD even has a team that partakes in Crawl for Cancer:
Houston Crawl For Cancer | Facebook

Austin looks to be having a lot of fun, but then again, that's Austin. This event seems to be made for Austin.
Austin Crawl for Cancer | Facebook

On a forum called NYC Midtown Lunch:
Pub Crawl for Cancer 3/27/10 | Page 2 | Miscellaneous | Midtown Lunch Forums

"Ding Ding Ding! Last year, it was all Coors light pitchers. Why do you think it's $40?"

$40 is a huge overcharge (considering the bars are making beer donations for the cause). Even for Coors. Do the math. 10 people on a team; 5 bars; 4 pitchers per bar. That's 20 pitchers, or 2 pitchers per person. So, you think $20 for a pitcher of Coors lite is reasonable? (OK, the t-shirt is worth a few bucks. But having to drink more Coors after the crawl is just punishment!) I'll donate directly instead--more money for charity, less personal suffering. (Coors Lite gives me a hangover headache *while I'm still drinking it*!!!!)

Columbus Underground forums
Crawl for Cancer Columbus Underground Messageboard

Apparently in Columbus, as a result of public pressure, the event is also giving out tokens for cab rides home. Good idea.

And to pull a ______, here's a link to an older thread on our own forum about the event:
http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-are...wl-cancer.html

[dismayed]

Okay, I read your blog Steve and I guess I'm up to speed. Honestly there's still not a lot of detail other than the Bricktown Association making it really clear they're peeved that the event wasn't coordinated with them, and that they are not receiving any overhead funds (for security, etc.) from the admission charged by the Pub Crawl folks.

I'm sure the Association is doing this because they believe they are protecting their image of Bricktown or whatever. I have to wonder though if that PR will outweigh the bad PR that I can see in my minds eye hitting the front of The Lost Ogle tomorrow....

"BRICKTOWN ASSOCIATION WANTS YOU TO GET CANCER!!!11"

[dismayed]

Well I for one would like to see the Crawl continue in OKC, but I agree that if there are some folks that are causing problems the issues need to be addressed. As the Crawl organizers say it isn't a competition and no one is required to drink anything. Many folks just donate their money for cancer and go along to meet new and interesting people and may actually only have one or two beers. But on the other hand we're talking really watered-down 3.2 domestic beer here, and unless you're a complete lightweight it would take gigantic amounts of beer to get you drunk on that. Someone who is throwing back their own pitcher like that should be easy to spot. The event organizers should have DJs or people walking around under the auspices of just having fun watching for this, and yeah there should probably be a greater police presence on the streets. Another suggestion would be that, although many groups such as mine were doing this on their own, perhaps the event organizers should require that each group of 10 have one person designated as a DD. Maybe give them a different colored shirt or a wrist-band or something that kind of puts them in charge of the group and keeps them from drinking. Anyway it seems to me like the event was a lot of fun and those folks who were rowdy could be addressed without banning the entire thing. But from what I read on Steve's Blog I guess that is already a done deal.

[Soonerus]

not a charity...

[dismayed]

From their webiste....


Why isn't Crawl for Cancer, Inc. considered a charity?
Crawl for Cancer is a fundraising organization. Organizations that provide an expected product or service in return for money received cannot register as a public charity, also known as a 501(c)(3). The only alternative is a "for-profit" designation, even if the profits are donated to charity, as with Crawl for Cancer, Inc. Incidentally, 100% of Crawl for Cancer's profits go to charity.

How do I know if Crawl for Cancer is using its funds properly?
Since we aren't a public charity, the government does not make our financial information public. However, we have voluntarily made our prior year information available through the Better Business Bureau and will post our current year's information here when the annual returns are complete.

[dismayed]

Steve if the Pub Crawl won't respond to you contact the BBB and see if they have any information on file. I'd be curious to know whether or not they have a balance sheet or anything like that.

[Soonerus]

A lot of things can happen before you arrive at "profits"...that is revealing...

[dismayed]

...and why I am curious to know if they have submitted a balance sheet....

[Soonerus]

It is called fraud ...

[MikeOKC]

I question their whole reasoning of not being a 501(c)(3) organization. They say it is because, "Organizations that provide an expected product or service in return for money received cannot register as a public charity." It's all in how you setup the organization, how you accept the funds, etc. There are many ways that organizations do exactly what the Crawl does and be a non-profit.

When a non-profit organization has a fundraiser, may of them offer a product. Candy bars, boxes of cookies, tickets to a benefit concert, any number of things.

To me, this looks like a slick way to avoid having the charity watchdogs on their case. They can come across as a "benefit organization" without having to file the disclosure documents for 501(c)(3) groups. They claim to give info to the Better Business Bureau. What??? That's not even the purpose of the BBB, they want them to act as a repository of financial information on private business? Which is what Crawl is - a business. They are trying to fly under the radar, in my opinion, and their excuse is lame when you just stop and think about other non-profits and what products and services they offer when fundraising.

Steve, I think you have a reason to be suspicious about their not returning calls and.....all of what I just wrote.

edit: I was just browsing some non-profit websites and came across levels of giving resulting in different products. For example, $25 or more the giver receives a certificate and a CD, $50 or more they get an additional DVD, to where finally if someone gives $1000 or more, they receive a small bronze statuette. This is just basic stuff.

[Downtowner405]

Few points.
1. You can arrange any event based on binge drinking and it will be popular. IMHO the event is irresponsibly constructed to allow and condone this type of drinking. And if I were the charity, I would be very concerned that an event was being put together that condones this activity in their name, for their cause. This is morally irresponsible.

2. Pub Crawls, if properly put together and promoted can actually limit the amount of liquor it's participants take in, so as to not result in public drunken behavior that is a nuissance to the community.

3. The Bricktown Association should divorce itself from any activity that promotes this type of behavior. The BA is well aware of the fact that people should drink responsibly. Furthermore, the BA works hard to ensure the safety of the public by working closely with merchants and law enforcement officials alike. Simply because an event is held in Bricktown, doesn't mean the BA has to place its stamp of approval on it. And having said that, anyone planning an event doesn't necessarily need the approval of the BA either. However, it is more advantageous for merchants, event planners and promoters alike to work together to put on an event that is responsible and safe for the public.

[Steve]

Some things to note;
1. The Bricktown Association, to my knowledge, coordinates events with police but does not collect money for doing so. Instead, it is funded by member fees, advertising sponsorships and starting this year, the business improvement district.
2. Crawl for Cancer has not provided ANY financial information for the OKC events. Further, the one year of info it filed with BBB for 2008 is a very cursory summary and does not shed a lot of light into the finances. Crawl for Cancer only provided that info after it was delisted by BBB last year. It was re-listed after providing the 2008 figures but has once again lost its listing.
3. Dismayed, I have contacted BBB - and what you saw attached to my article on Friday (the 2008 info) is the only info they've ever provided.
4. Are we sure that fees paid by participants is the only source of income? I don't know - the for-profit Crawl for Cancer Inc. won't answer any questions.

[Larry OKC]

Steve:

In your blog post, you had the following:

“All the funds we raise go to Ally’s House and the Brain Tumor Foundation”- David Tedford

I may have missed it somewhere but have these charities been contacted and what response did they give? Know Toby Keith is has a personal connection and has fundraisers for Ally's House, any response from him? Noticed in the sidebar to your Oklahoman story that Toby Keith's I love This Bar was conspicuously absent as a Participant. That seemed odd to me...

Participants in the 2010 Bricktown Crawl for Cancer
• Wormy Dog
• America’s Pub
• Drinkz
• JJ’s Alley
• Red Pin Bowling Lounge
• Bourbon Street Cafe
• Rok Bar
• Coyote Ugly
• Bricktown Brewery
• Sapphire
• Tapwerks
• Hampton Inn (offered discounted rates to participants)
• Colcord Hotel (offered discounted rates to participants)
• Science Museum Oklahoma (hosted distribution of shirts, registrations)

[OSUFan]

Bricktown said don't come back and the people organizing the Crawl said we won't. I guess I don't see why it contiues to linger.

It sucks that some poeple were out of line. When people act like idiots events get canceled.

I would never condone the behavoir of some of these people but personally I think this plays a lot into the bible belt aspect. We want to big a big time city with a great bar scene but we also want it to be "family-friendly". I understand the big beef is that it was during the day. I get that but I still don't really see having an entertainment district that caters to families during the day and "adults" at night.

CFC people should have done a better job with the security but I would also think we've gotten to the point that some drunk idiots wouldn't be a week-long story.

[Steve]

Larry, Ally's House is concerned this money may be "tainted," pointed out it's important to be transparent with finances, and the director said they probably will be disassociating themselves from the event.

[okclee]

No offense Steve, but this story has gotten drug out a bit. It seems the story has gotten personal with you and a few others.

[Of Sound Mind]

I'm with Steve on this one. Crawl for Cancer is making this a bigger story than it needs to be by their stubborn silence. Seems more and more like they have something to hide, and when a "charitable" group is less than generous sharing financial information, it becomes an important story to protect unsuspecting donors from giving to a dubious organization.

[okclee]

I guess that I have always been skeptical of charities. It never surprises me to see non-profit organizations siphoning money or scamming donors. It is the world we live in.

It also doesn't surprise me that having daytime binge drinking events leads to lewd contact, harassment, indecent exposure, etc.