Will OKC lose the Big 12 Baseball Tournament?

[Spartan]

Frisco is actually pretty awesome for a suburb an hour away from DTD..

[OSUFan]

Get Arkansas to come back from the SEC, add Tulsa, TCU, SMU, Houston, Rice, and so on. Schools that have a good history, that are decent in football, "superb" in at least one sport (Rice baseball, SMU history, TCU football, etc). A conference such as that would look like this: OU, Texas, OSU, Arkansas, Tech, A&M, TCU, KU, K-State, Tulsa, TCU, SMU, Houston, Rice. That would still be one of the best conferences in the nation..competitive with the SEC, and still better than the Big Ten, and more importantly, you would be putting together a good combination of up-and-coming teams with schools that have a lot of history, not to mention history with each other (Arkansas/Texas, OSU/Arkansas, etc) that haven't been together in a while.

OKC and Dallas would easily be the anchors of such a conference...

1.) As it currently stands the Big 12 is not going to host a conference championship in Tulsa. Not happening. I've said it a million times but the Big 12 doesn't consider Tulsa a "Big 12" town. That is not a knock on Tulsa either. Tulsa is not a threat to take anything from OKC when it comes the conference championships.

2.) Why the heck would Arkansas leave the SEC? This is all about money and tv contracts. The conference movements have little or nothing to do with on the field results.

3.) A conference of OU, Texas, OSU, Arkansas, Tech, A&M, TCU, KU, K-State, Tulsa, TCU, SMU, Houston, Rice is not happening. Remember it is all about TV sets.

With Texas and Texas A&M you have all the TV sets in Texas. Adding TCU, SMU, Houston and Rice gives you nothing. We have our private school in Baylor, why kick them out and add Tulsa?

Basically, you have the Big 12 kicking out a bunch of teams and adding other teams that at the most keep the conference the same but more than likely make it a lot, lot worse. There is a reason the SWC didn't work.

[Spartan]

From your post, I gather two contradicting points: An expanded version of the SWC would fail because it capitalizes more with field results and not TV sets, and going after teams that would bring in TV sets is not going to be successful in getting them to join (like Arkansas).

[Spartan]

Also metro, check out these pics of Blue Dome/Brady/Greenwood..very impressive photos:

I give you Tulsa - SkyscraperCity

[CuatrodeMayo]

Frisco is actually pretty awesome for a suburb an hour away from DTD..

It really is. The area between Pizza Hut Park and City Hall has amazing potential.

However, the ballpark area resembled the Quail Springs area...cars only.

[okclee]

Shouldn't Tulsa try to host tournament events within Conference USA?

[OSUFan]

From your post, I gather two contradicting points: An expanded version of the SWC would fail because it capitalizes more with field results and not TV sets, and going after teams that would bring in TV sets is not going to be successful in getting them to join (like Arkansas).

How is that contridiction? Arkansas has no reason to leave the SEC. It would be great if the Big 12 could get Arkansas. They just have no reason to join. Not enough money.

[Swake2]

Shouldn't Tulsa try to host tournament events within Conference USA?

Tulsa hosted the 2010 Conference USA basketball tournament, the 2008 Conference USA football championship game and the 2004 and 2008 NCAA Tennis Championships.

[Spartan]

How is that contridiction? Arkansas has no reason to leave the SEC. It would be great if the Big 12 could get Arkansas. They just have no reason to join. Not enough money.

I think Arkansas would benefit from more high-profile games with UT, A&M, OU, and OSU. They have a history with UT and OSU, last year they signed a rivalry series with A&M at JerryWorld, and who wouldn't want to have a high-profile series with OU. Those would all be big-money scenarios. Arkansas vs. LSU, Bama, Florida...big-money scenarios for the other schools, not Arkansas. Frank Broyles might listen.

[soonerfan_in_okc]

what will happen if the big 12 falls apart

texas, texas a&m - SEC

OU, OSU - Pac 10.

that is all.

[Oil Capital]

How is that contridiction? Arkansas has no reason to leave the SEC. It would be great if the Big 12 could get Arkansas. They just have no reason to join. Not enough money.

There was no contradiction. Spartan just misread what you wrote and didn't like your conclusion. I don't know about Arkansas, I suspect you are correct about them. You are absolutely correct about Rice, Tulsa and SMU never being invited to join the Big XII or any reasonably likely successor thereto. Not gonna happen.

[Richard at Remax]

ark would lose 7-8 million a year if they joined the big 12 right now. on the flip side, if nebraska or missouri jump to the big 10, they would make almost a million more month due to our crappy revenue sharing and tv deals.

[Oil Capital]

ark would lose 7-8 million a year if they joined the big 12 right now. on the flip side, if nebraska or missouri jump to the big 10, they would make almost a million more month due to our crappy revenue sharing and tv deals.

Wow. Is this another example of a Headquarters moving to Dallas, followed in a few years by bankruptcy/going out of business? ;-)

[OSUFan]

Bottom line, I would love to have Arkansas in the Big 12 but it is all about money. The way the conference stands now they would lose a ton of money to move to the Big 12.

[BG918]

Bottom line, I would love to have Arkansas in the Big 12 but it is all about money. The way the conference stands now they would lose a ton of money to move to the Big 12.

Exactly, it will never happen unless the SEC votes them out. Far more likely is the SEC expanding to include OU, OSU, Texas, and A&M in the West Division along with Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss, and Mississippi State.

[Swake2]

Exactly, it will never happen unless the SEC votes them out. Far more likely is the SEC expanding to include OU, OSU, Texas, and A&M in the West Division along with Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss, and Mississippi State.

No offense, but, the SEC will never take OSU, they add nothing to the SEC. They don't have a large national following and would only bring a portion of the Tulsa and Oklahoma City media markets.

Look for the SEC to add Florida State in OSU's place, along with OU, Texas and A&M. That would be a conference that would rule the college sports world.

The dominoes are going to start falling with the major conferences going to 16 teams. It's all about money, and it sucks.

Missouri and Nebraska are likely going to the Big10 along with Rutgers and Syracuse. Notre Dame is the wild card here, if ND doesn't go, then the Big10 picks up probably Uconn or Kansas. I really don't get the Nebraska part, I would have gone with Pittsburgh from the Big East, but that does not seem to be what is happening.

That sends Kansas and Colorado to the Pac 10 with BYU, New Mexico, Texas Tech and Utah or UTEP, or both if Kansas goes to the Big 10.

I think, and this is all just speculation now, The ACC will probably replace Florida State with Central Florida and South Florida and will further raid the Big East, grabbing probably Pittsburgh and WVU and then add a Texas school from CUSA, probably Houston or SMU, just to get into the huge Texas market.

the Big 12 and Big East conferences (at least the football part of the Big East) are likely dead. OSU, Iowa State, KSU and Baylor are in deep trouble. I could actually see them banding together with the couple of remaining football playing Big East schools and then what's left of Conference USA. I doubt such a conference would be a BCS conference though.

[Swake2]

Here's the numbers, revenue by conference:
http://ncaabbs.com/printthread.php?tid=350645

Total Revenue
Big Ten (280,628,952)
Southeastern (272,116,806)
Big XII (139,306,532)
ACC (126,608,527)
Pac Ten (103,053,427)
Big East (93,149,910)
Mountain West (48,022,000)
CUSA (36,081,537)
Mid American (21,279,716)
Western Athletic (19,674,348)
Atlantic 10 (12,416,499)
Sun Belt (11,912,222)
Colonial (10,109,737)
Missouri Valley (9,756,408)
Horizon (6,219,609)

The SEC and Big 10 have the most money to offer, and are only going to offer to schools that can bring in more money than the conference will pay out to the school.

That's why even though the Big 12 and ACC are very strong conferences, they are vulnerable to raids by the SEC and Big 10. No school is going to leave one of those conferences and any school is going to have a hard time turning those conferences down.

[Decious]

Well said Swake. Hopefully these alleged Mega Conferences get us closer to having an actual playoff in college football. Hard to imagine the BCS sustaining itself under this scenario. Seems like you'd have a significant annual chance of two SEC teams playing in the National Title Game.

[Spartan]

Let me explain my problem with all of this. The Pac Ten, despite having more room for expansion than anyone else, is not expanding to include Kansas or any Big 12 team OTHER than Colorado..maybe. Same with the Big Ten. The SEC is also not going to just add OU and Texas to the SEC West despite how much they might love to. And what about OSU--the state may not let OU go to the SEC without OSU, and I can name a few Cowboys in Texas who might have something to do about that, too.

The way I see it there has to be something more competitive and different that fills the void that will be left by the Big 12, and it needs to try a different mix of schools, and it needs to be ran by anyone but Dan Beebe who's done an awesome job of running the Big 12 into the ground despite being the most prolific conference on the field and on the court recently. Look at what a dud the Big Ten, and how everyone is buzzing about how bad it sucks lately, and compare to being #1 for TV revenue.

As for Arkansas, the point is that in order for this replacement conference to be successful and actually compete with the Big Ten and SEC it will need to attract some more big names and it will need to capitalize on a region, and not just on a huge collection of teams basically anywhere south of Chicago.

[HOT ROD]

wow, despite sucking in almost every sport - the Big 10 is the KING of the NCAA. ... with SEC as the Queen.

That's Chicago for you, go Chicago!

What if OU joined the Big 10?. ......

[Swake2]

Let me explain my problem with all of this. The Pac Ten, despite having more room for expansion than anyone else, is not expanding to include Kansas or any Big 12 team OTHER than Colorado..maybe. Same with the Big Ten. The SEC is also not going to just add OU and Texas to the SEC West despite how much they might love to. And what about OSU--the state may not let OU go to the SEC without OSU, and I can name a few Cowboys in Texas who might have something to do about that, too.

The way I see it there has to be something more competitive and different that fills the void that will be left by the Big 12, and it needs to try a different mix of schools, and it needs to be ran by anyone but Dan Beebe who's done an awesome job of running the Big 12 into the ground despite being the most prolific conference on the field and on the court recently. Look at what a dud the Big Ten, and how everyone is buzzing about how bad it sucks lately, and compare to being #1 for TV revenue.

As for Arkansas, the point is that in order for this replacement conference to be successful and actually compete with the Big Ten and SEC it will need to attract some more big names and it will need to capitalize on a region, and not just on a huge collection of teams basically anywhere south of Chicago.

Your harping on Arkansas coming out of the SEC keeps showing how little you understand the business that is college athletics. Arkansas is going nowhere. It's a small market school in a big money conference.

And the PAC 10 can't get Colorado out of the Big 12 today, no way. And Kansas leaving the Big 12 for the PAC 10 is just plain stupid. Not going to happen, even if Missouri goes to the Big 10. The Big 12 is a richer conference and makes more sense geographically. But if the Big 12 South falls apart, both schools are going to have to move, and fast.

The Big 10 is widely reported to be going to 16 teams in order to grab a larger share of the national college television market. The SEC will be forced to do the same to keep up with the Big 10. If those two conferences go to 16 the Pac 10 and ACC will have to as well to avoid become completely irrelevant.

As for OU not being allowed to leave OSU, I doubt it. If UT goes to the SEC OU had better follow them. Losing Texas and A&M would blow a huge hole in the Big 12's revenue and thus OU's revenue and hugely impact OU's ability to recruit in Texas. OU has to follow UT, and no one is going to stop them to save OSU.

It's all going to come down to the Big 10's math, they are going to 12 teams to get a football championship game and more money for the schools. that 12th team is likely Notre Dame or Rutgers if Notre Dame says no. If they determine that they can make even more money per school at 16 school than with 12, then they will do that. It seems they think they can. The other conferences are going to have to follow suit or they will get squeezed out of the national TV contracts.

[OSUFan]

Your harping on Arkansas coming out of the SEC keeps showing how little you understand the business that is college athletics. Arkansas is going nowhere. It's a small market school in a big money conference.

And the PAC 10 can't get Colorado out of the Big 12 today, no way. And Kansas leaving the Big 12 for the PAC 10 is just plain stupid. Not going to happen, even if Missouri goes to the Big 10. The Big 12 is a richer conference and makes more sense geographically. But if the Big 12 South falls apart, both schools are going to have to move, and fast.

The Big 10 is widely reported to be going to 16 teams in order to grab a larger share of the national college television market. The SEC will be forced to do the same to keep up with the Big 10. If those two conferences go to 16 the Pac 10 and ACC will have to as well to avoid become completely irrelevant.

As for OU not being allowed to leave OSU, I doubt it. If UT goes to the SEC OU had better follow them. Losing Texas and A&M would blow a huge hole in the Big 12's revenue and thus OU's revenue and hugely impact OU's ability to recruit in Texas. OU has to follow UT, and no one is going to stop them to save OSU.

It's all going to come down to the Big 10's math, they are going to 12 teams to get a football championship game and more money for the schools. that 12th team is likely Notre Dame or Rutgers if Notre Dame says no. If they determine that they can make even more money per school at 16 school than with 12, then they will do that. It seems they think they can. The other conferences are going to have to follow suit or they will get squeezed out of the national TV contracts.

I completelty agree with most of everything you say except the OSU part. OU and OSU are tied together. The Oklahoma legislation (which has a lot more OSU alumns that a lot of people realize) will not split them up (and they have a say) just the way Texas politics will not allow UT and A&M to be split.

End of the day, the Big 12 can probably survive losing two teams (as long as one isn't UT) but if they were to lose three it would probably fall apart.

[Shake2005]

I completelty agree with most of everything you say except the OSU part. OU and OSU are tied together. The Oklahoma legislation (which has a lot more OSU alumns that a lot of people realize) will not split them up (and they have a say) just the way Texas politics will not allow UT and A&M to be split.

End of the day, the Big 12 can probably survive losing two teams (as long as one isn't UT) but if they were to lose three it would probably fall apart.

Then OU is in trouble too. The SEC is not going to bring two schools in with only the 45th and 61st media markets even if one is OU. If that happens, the SEC would probably go with adding Texas, A&M, FSU and then Kansas.

Kansas is a big basketball school and would bring the 32nd and 69th media markets. Kansas City (no 32) is almost the size of Oklahoma City and Tulsa combined by itself.

[OSUFan]

The problem with media markets is we are mainly talking football. Does KU football really bring in much of the Kansas City market? Does the SEC want to add a school where football is clearly the second priority? Maybe but I'm not sure.

[Spartan]

The funny thing about media markets is that if you combine a lot of smaller media markets, it can be a pretty big deal. Look at the SEC itself--honestly the only "major" media market it has is Atlanta. Then look at the Big 12, which brings in so much less TV revenue than the SEC, so many more "bigger" TV markets..Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Kansas City, Denver, Oklahoma City, etc. The SEC's second biggest TV market is Nashville, which is in roughly the same group of cities as OKC.

Obviously the product and marketing the product matter a LOT more than media markets. Something needs to explain the breakup of the Big 12.