Will OKC lose the Big 12 Baseball Tournament?

[OSUFan]

This might be an over simplification but has the Big 12 ever done anything in Tulsa?

[okcboy]

This year there will be an expanded beer garden outside the stadium with a few interactive fans activities as well as a stage showcasing ACM@UCO
students before and after games. There also will be a star performance
on the stage before the final session on Sat night. Should be fun.

[prldrums00]

If Tulsa wrestled away this tourney from OKC,would it be The biggest sporting event EVER in Tulsa?

Not a golf fan, I take it?

[metro]

False.

Explain?

[Oil Capital]

I think it should be pointed out that I believe the fields you are showing are actually where the ballpark is now located and therefore no longer exist, the multistory brick building is now renovated and the home of Living Arts of Tulsa and the interior shot is of the Mayo which now looks like this:

Sorry, Swake. I'm pretty sure that Metro's interior shot is NOT the Mayo, but the Tulsa Club Building, which still presumably looks approximately like the above photo. (Neither is particularly close to Oneok Field.)

[Oil Capital]

Both of those 'fields' are now developed. The one in the first pic is now John Hope Franklin Park and the one in the second pic is the ballpark itself. The old warehouse in the third pic is still there but the one across the street has been renovated and is actually the Tulsa office for OKC-based Perimeter Technology. Several other buildings around the ballpark have been renovated since Google streetview took these pics 2 years ago. I agree there is not much in the way of bars/restaurants within the immediate vicinity of the ballpark like in OKC but there are a similar amount in the Blue Dome area a couple blocks south along Elgin.

Yes, there are a few places in the Blue Dome District, but it is simply not realistic to pretend that they are similar in number to what is in Bricktown.

[Spartan]

If Tulsa wrestled away this tourney from OKC,would it be The biggest sporting event EVER in Tulsa?

That would probably be the NFL. Back in the 1920s or so lol.

I'm not going to respond to Oil Capitol..thinking about just clicking "ignore" and not having to read his posts anymore.

As for "now bars in Tulsa" -- Tulsa doesn't have nearly the bar scene that DT OKC has, and we're really lucky to have so many hotspots downtown. Tulsa does however have a lot of new restaurants and bars not to mention Elliot Nelson, who is the McNellie's guy. Blue Dome has 5 of Nelson's restaurants alone, including the original McNellie's. Other people than just Nelson own restaurants in Blue Dome, too.

[Oil Capital]

That would probably be the NFL. Back in the 1920s or so lol.

I'm not going to respond to Oil Capitol..thinking about just clicking "ignore" and not having to read his posts anymore.

As for "now bars in Tulsa" -- Tulsa doesn't have nearly the bar scene that DT OKC has, and we're really lucky to have so many hotspots downtown. Tulsa does however have a lot of new restaurants and bars not to mention Elliot Nelson, who is the McNellie's guy. Blue Dome has 5 of Nelson's restaurants alone, including the original McNellie's. Other people than just Nelson own restaurants in Blue Dome, too.

Not sure what your point was, or if you even had one. Bottom line. . . Tulsa/Oneok Field still falls way short compared to OKC/Bricktown as a site for the Big XII baseball tournament. What is the fifth Nelson restaurant? I am familiar with McNellie's, El Guapo, Dilly Deli, and Yokozuma. Are you counting the bowling alley (which is (a) not yet in existence and (b) not a restaurant) as the fifth Nelson restaurant?

For the record, the best source I know for establishments in the downtown area is the Downtown Live website portion of tulsanow.org. Here are the 11 restaurants, bars, and entertainment venues they show in the Blue Dome District:

Arnie's Bar
First Street Music Halls (Capella's and Exit 6C)
Dilly Deli
Blue Dome Diner
Dirty's Tavern
El Guapo's Cantina
Flytrap Music Hall
Fortune Chef
Joe Momma's
McNellie's
Midtown Adult Superstore
They left off Yokozuma, so that gives us 12 (counting the porn shop)

P.S. Given your aversion to facts, I am confident you would be happier with having me on the "ignore" setting. Rest assured, however, that I will keep posting corrections just to make sure that others don't buy into your stream of misinformation.

[Larry OKC]

Seriously, Midtown Adult Superstore is included in the list? Maybe Christies Toybox needs to open a location in Bricktown (next to Hooters or Coyote Ugly)...LOL

[BG918]

If Tulsa wrestled away this tourney from OKC,would it be The biggest sporting event EVER in Tulsa?

The U.S. Open and PGA Championship are pretty big events.

[Spartan]

Not sure what your point was, or if you even had one. Bottom line. . . Tulsa/Oneok Field still falls way short compared to OKC/Bricktown as a site for the Big XII baseball tournament. What is the fifth Nelson restaurant? I am familiar with McNellie's, El Guapo, Dilly Deli, and Yokozuma. Are you counting the bowling alley (which is (a) not yet in existence and (b) not a restaurant) as the fifth Nelson restaurant?

Nelson is opening a new one in June called Fassler Hall. Not counting the bowling alley.

[BG918]

Elliott Nelson is the definition of American entrepreneur. That guy always has something new in the works and it's cool to see him expanding out of Tulsa with the McNellie's in OKC and Abner's in Norman.

[Spartan]

Yeah seriously, and to think he's only 29. I don't know what I'd be doing after work this week without Abner's/McNellie's on Main St. He also has The Colony in Tulsa, on Harvard..forgot about that one. Grand total to 6 in Tulsa, 2 in OKC area..all pretty damn cool. He's also currently looking at Bartlesville and Stillwater. Nelson really is the man.

[Floyd]

I'll bite, but only for some points of clarification:

1) The stadium held 9400 for Bedlam. The highest attendance at games of the 2009 Big 12 tournament was around 7500. Stadium size is probably irrelevant.
2) You forgot the Maxx Retropub opening in Blue Dome in June. Other future openings in that area are rumored.
3) The bars and restaurants of the Brady District are approximately the same distance from the stadium as those in the Blue Dome. There are more than enough establishments within walking distance to handle the crowds.
4) Tulsa is bidding for 2012, 2013 and 2014. For the most pessimistic, streetscaping and park development will be complete by then. For the less partisan, it is very likely that further entertainment and hospitality venues will follow. Infill is happening fast, spurred by the stadium opening.

Don't sell Tulsa's budding downtown entertainment areas short. It's different, but it's real.

[Oil Capital]

I'll bite, but only for some points of clarification:

1) The stadium held 9400 for Bedlam. The highest attendance at games of the 2009 Big 12 tournament was around 7500. Stadium size is probably irrelevant.

Don't sell Tulsa's budding downtown entertainment areas short. It's different, but it's real.

What about prior years of the tournament? And, I'm just guessing here, but I would imagine the conference would prefer to put people in seats rather than a patch of grass in the outfield, if for no other reason than the increased revenue.

I am not selling Tulsa's budding downtown entertainment area short. The problem for their Big XII baseball bid is your adjective. It is indeed a "budding" entertainment area.

As I posted earlier, Tulsa's bid will not be considered in a vacuum. And Tulsa's competition has a downtown entertainment area in full bloom, and still continuing to improve as well. It is interesting to note that one of the criticisms about the OKC experience of the KC blogger referenced above was that Bricktown was too spread out. Imagine his reaction to Tulsa's dual budding entertainment areas. They are orders of magnitude more spread out than Bricktown. The Blue Dome and Brady District areas are many years from achieving the dense critical mass necessary to make them real attractive districts because (a) trying to develop two separate areas, rather than focusing on one and (b) there is sooo much vacant land interspersed among the remaining buildings.

The areas are sooo much better than they used to be and I am a huge fan of Elliot Nelson's establishments, but . . .

Bottom line, unless there is some reason we don't know of that the Big XII is unhappy with OKC, it would seem that any move would have to be for some sort of improvement. . . for the fan experience, for the conference revenue . . . something. I don't see anything about a Tulsa bid that would be an improvement for anyone. Quite the opposite.

[stlokc]

Is the Big 12 conference even going to exist in 2014?

[OSUFan]

I'm sorry but I can't really see the Big 12 doing anything in Tulsa anytime in the near future. For whatever reason, Tulsa hasn't been considered a Big 12 town. Outside of the schools, there is something like 3 or 4 towns the Big 12 holds events at.

[metro]

Good point OSU, Tulsa was never much of a Big12 town, another reason I don't see them locating there, especially if they already supposively passed up the DFW area.

[onthestrip]

It is interesting to note that one of the criticisms about the OKC experience of the KC blogger referenced above was that Bricktown was too spread out.

This blogger has lost all credibility with this statement. Does he think the area around Ballpark in Arlington or the Frisco area isnt spread out? I mean, thats what Dallas is. There isnt a better setup with an appropriately sized ballpark and surrounding hotels/food/entertainment than what OKC has.

[adaniel]

In all fairness, I read that entry and that guy was referring (I think) to the 1st round NCAA basketball championship this past March....and his review was mixed, which is a far cry from "very negative" as someone else suggested. Its pretty unfair for him to compare a couple of first round games in OKC versus an entire Big XII Tournament in KC featuring 12 schools (both boys and girls) over a week. Also, I don't know how much partying in the street that guy expected when it was predicted well in advance that we were going to get hit with a snowstorm that weekend.

But I do agree about our setup. Its really very convienent. The American Airlines Center in Dallas has very few restaraunts within short walking distance...largely because the Victory Development right next to it has been such a bust in terms of retail and restaraunts. There are a lot of places in Uptown and the West End but both are a pretty good hike from the center. As far as the Ballpark in Arlington...yeah, pretty much a sea of concrete, but you are next to Six Flags!

As far as Tulsa is concerned, it could very well rival Bricktown in density in the future, but not now. Yeah there are a lot of plans in place, but people in OKC and Tulsa are plenty famailar with how "plans" can turn out. The Big 12 will determine what city is better prepared for hosting the tournament based on things existing now.

[BG918]

Is the Big 12 conference even going to exist in 2014?

Not in its current form, IMO. Oklahoma could be SEC country by then, and that opens up a whole new can of worms..

[soonerfan_in_okc]

Is the Big 12 conference even going to exist in 2014?

this post is probably most relevant now with all the talk that is going on lol

[dmoor82]

The U.S. Open and PGA Championship are pretty big events.

^^ My bad,I forgot! The Big 12 Baseball tourney is an annual event in OKC,The US open and PGA champ. is not,at least in Tulsa!that is what I was trying to get at,sorry!

[Spartan]

Is the Big 12 conference even going to exist in 2014?

This is the best point raised in the entire thread. Economic development is kind of the trade of all trades. In order to be successful you have to know a little bit about everything, and specialize each week in something different that you're targeting. It keeps looking worse and worse for the Big 12..the north seems to want out. A lot has been made out of Nebraska and Mizzou going to the Big Ten but I also think CU has been talking to the Pac Ten, leaving just the Kansas schools and Iowa State, who would be killed in whatever conference they join.

Also, from the Big 12's perspective, they're looking at this in terms of how they can break host sites up. They have a lot of different tournaments and a lot of different cities competing for those tournaments, and they like to anchor the tourneys. In my opinion OKC needs to focus on preventing this from happening, because YES the baseball and softball tourneys have been anchored in OKC (to more extent than any other tourneys have been anchored somewhere) the BIG prize that OKC needs to hone in on is the basketball tourney, which will be anchored in KC if OKC doesn't prevent it.

In my opinion the Big 12 Baseball tourney doesn't even matter. Yes, OKC is the most logical site by far for it, and yes--OKC's done a great job on it. But it doesn't compare to the basketball tourney for economic development, let alone just what basketball has done to elevate OKC's national image in such a short period of time. We need basketball more than we need baseball, by far.

Tulsa needs to be recognized as a legitimate threat for a few reasons. Not just because Tulsa is a great city that's finally coming alive in a big way, but also because we need challengers to the baseball in order for us to be a challenger to the basketball. If basketball gets anchored at the amazing Sprint Center, despite how well OKC has done hosting it in our own right, that's the bigger battle that we can't afford to lose. Is Brassfield and the All Sports Association apt to keep that from happening, or will we need a lot of politicking on behalf of the Big 12 South, or what? No way to tell.

As for OU/OSU joining the SEC, in my opinion that's the likely scenario for when the Big 12 collapses--which sucks in my opinion because of how strong the Big 12 could be if it stayed together. But I guess that was its major benefit and its fatal flaw in the same. What would work best though is if OU and Texas got together again and created another predecessor conference that included a lot more of the up-and-coming schools in the region and stayed geographically anchored on the South-Central region exclusively. Get Arkansas to come back from the SEC, add Tulsa, TCU, SMU, Houston, Rice, and so on. Schools that have a good history, that are decent in football, "superb" in at least one sport (Rice baseball, SMU history, TCU football, etc). A conference such as that would look like this: OU, Texas, OSU, Arkansas, Tech, A&M, TCU, KU, K-State, Tulsa, TCU, SMU, Houston, Rice. That would still be one of the best conferences in the nation..competitive with the SEC, and still better than the Big Ten, and more importantly, you would be putting together a good combination of up-and-coming teams with schools that have a lot of history, not to mention history with each other (Arkansas/Texas, OSU/Arkansas, etc) that haven't been together in a while.

OKC and Dallas would easily be the anchors of such a conference...

[mburlison]

The Big 12 Tournament should be at Bricktown, but Frisco is hardly "overgrown".