Liquor laws holding back Grocers to open

[mugofbeer]

I hear only crickets. When Whole Foods announced they were coming yesterday, this is exactly what I thought about. People who were saying our liquor laws are preventing us from getting stores like WF didn't know what they were talking about. If they can make a profit doing business here, they'll come here. That's what matters. Clearly they think they can do good business without selling wine or liquor in their stores.

I'm all for reforming our liquor laws, but let's try to use facts in these discussions rather than personal opinion masquerading as fact.

For the purpose of the discussion, I would make the proposal that WF is a different kind of grocer. They have wonderful produce, wonderful meat and fish, excellent prepared foods and grains. I bet most of these are significantly higher profit margin departments than normal grocery goods. WF doesn't have many of the same brands as other grocers so there is only indirect competition between them and Homeland or Wal Mart.

If Kroger or Safeway were studying whether or not to (re)enter the market, they would have different considerations and would have to consider each product in the store.

[bluedogok]

As stated previously, Oklahoma isn't the only state facing this issue....

The Denver Post - Colorado grocery-liquor bill iced

Denver Business Journal - Bill to let Colorado grocers sell liquor pulled; fight likely moves to ballot

[Ezrablum]

If you had ever been into a Trader Joes or a Whole Foods, you would know what an integral part of their concept beer and wine sales are. Good beer and good wine goes hand in hand with good food. Trader Joes was famous for it's 2 Buck Chuck. I honestly don't see them coming here, and our liquor laws are a big part of it.

[mugofbeer]

Personally, I see no need for grocery stores to sell liquor per se. Beer and wine, OK. There are a large number of "Mom and Pop" liquor stores and for grocery stores to compete would put most of them out of business. The big controversy in Colorado is just this issue. Grocery stores can sell 3.2 beer but no wine. The current Colorado law says only one grocery store in the state per grocery company can sell liquor (ie. 1 for Safeway, 1 for King Soopers, etc). The grocers want to sell liquor while the liquor store owners argue it will put most of them out of business. I am all for protecting the "mom & Pop" stores.

[bluedogok]

If you had ever been into a Trader Joes or a Whole Foods, you would know what an integral part of their concept beer and wine sales are. Good beer and good wine goes hand in hand with good food. Trader Joes was famous for it's 2 Buck Chuck. I honestly don't see them coming here, and our liquor laws are a big part of it.

Not in all their stores, the Whole Foods stores in Boston do not have beer or wine. It seems Massachusetts beer/wine/liquor laws are still under the package store concept without the 3.2 beer option. There are other states that have screwed up liquor laws as well, in fact most states have some screwey-ness in their liquor laws. Dallas is a prime example and their "dry precincts" crap.

[skyrick]

If you had ever been into a Trader Joes or a Whole Foods, you would know what an integral part of their concept beer and wine sales are. Good beer and good wine goes hand in hand with good food. Trader Joes was famous for it's 2 Buck Chuck. I honestly don't see them coming here, and our liquor laws are a big part of it.

Same for Central Market. I can't imagine one without their incredible beer and wine selection.

[kevinpate]

If you had ever been into a Trader Joes or a Whole Foods, you would know what an integral part of their concept beer and wine sales are. Good beer and good wine goes hand in hand with good food. Trader Joes was famous for it's 2 Buck Chuck. I honestly don't see them coming here, and our liquor laws are a big part of it.

Perhaps not TJ, but WF is coming, notwithstanding present laws on sale of wine, beer and other spirits. I suspect they see a shot at success all the same.

[metro]

If you had ever been into a Trader Joes or a Whole Foods, you would know what an integral part of their concept beer and wine sales are. Good beer and good wine goes hand in hand with good food. Trader Joes was famous for it's 2 Buck Chuck. I honestly don't see them coming here, and our liquor laws are a big part of it.

Strawman argument Ezra - we've hashed this out a million times, Colorado, some parts in Texas, namely dry counties in Dallas, NYC, Boston, etc. all have stores that don't sell beer/wine. Some of them sell 3.2 beer just like our grocers do here. Again, I've never ONCE seen an article where these retailers say this is the reason preventing them from coming.

[DelCamino]

Metro is right.

A check of liquor laws by states verifies there are many Trader Joe's stores, as well as Whole Foods Markets, located within states that prohibit wine sales in grocery stores:

Colorado, Connecticut, Deleware, New Jersey, New York, Massachusettes, Pennsylvania, Utah, etc.

An easy check of the Trader Joe's website/store locations reveals this.

I want wine sales in grocery stores. But the current law isn't keeping these retailers from opening a store in Oklahoma City. It doesn't help, granted, but it's not preventing them being here.

[BG918]

I think they locate in those places because they are large cities with a lot of wealth, so they can make up the loss of not having beer/wine sales. The profit margins in a smaller market like OKC or Tulsa would probably have to be bolstered by selling high-margin wine/beer which is not allowed in Oklahoma. That could keep Trader Joe's away, especially now that both cities will have Whole Foods.

[foodiefan]

problem not that hard to solve. . .Wild Oats/Whole Foods Tulsa. . .right around the corner is a great liquor/wine store. . . don't even have to move your car!!

[Ezrablum]

I think they locate in those places because they are large cities with a lot of wealth, so they can make up the loss of not having beer/wine sales. The profit margins in a smaller market like OKC or Tulsa would probably have to be bolstered by selling high-margin wine/beer which is not allowed in Oklahoma. That could keep Trader Joe's away, especially now that both cities will have Whole Foods.

I agree. We certainly won't be able to provide the volume of customers or foot traffic as a place like those mentioned in other states who have non-beer/wine markets.

and @Delcamino: You're right, it can't help.

[JerzeeGrlinOKC]

problem not that hard to solve. . .Wild Oats/Whole Foods Tulsa. . .right around the corner is a great liquor/wine store. . . don't even have to move your car!!

This is how they usually do it in cities that prohibit wine/beer sales in grocery stores. All of the Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, Wegmans, other nice grocery stores, in fact most grocery stores in NJ are right next to a liquor store. Sometimes they own it, sometimes they don't. Its not a make or break deal, although having cheese and wine pairings in a grocery store is definitely awesome.

[metro]

I agree. We certainly won't be able to provide the volume of customers or foot traffic as a place like those mentioned in other states who have non-beer/wine markets.

and @Delcamino: You're right, it can't help.

I guess we'll find out around July 2011. I think we'll provide MORE than their average store, because our market is vastly underserved and there is a lot of pent up demand compared to a city that might have 5 WF's.

[BG918]

problem not that hard to solve. . .Wild Oats/Whole Foods Tulsa. . .right around the corner is a great liquor/wine store. . . don't even have to move your car!!

There you can go to Food Pyramid (old Albertsons similar to Homeland), Old Village Wine & Liquor, and Whole Foods at the same time as all three are next to each other. That liquor store is one of the busier ones in Tulsa, and probably for that reason.

[Ezrablum]

Next door liquor sales is not the same as getting it all at the same time. 1 basket of goods to be purchased, 1 line, 1 cashier, 1 WF or TJ experience and then out to my car for a hasty getaway.

It is a minor inconvenience, but an inconvenience nonetheless.

By having to go next door to get it there is still a message being sent that says what is being bought inside the liquor store is underhanded and different than the goods bought in the market. It all goes in our bodies, it's all legal, there's no reason we shouldn't try to make the upgrade.

Also, I'm sick of having to buy good beer, warm. That's an inconvenience that I could easily live without. At the WF in Austin they have this amazing walk in cooler with so many different wonderful beers. It felt sad that I could never have that in the place that I call home. That was my part of my first WF experience. And a WF without such amenities would feel incomplete. I can safely say I would feel less compelled to shop there without beer/wine. And I am not the only one. I can go to other places for fresh bread and awesome cheese selections, like Forward Foods. I prefer supporting the local shops anyway. (I feel it's necessary to voice my opinion as I am friends with others who feel the same way)


I want to see a change in our laws and I think people who are resistant to change are anti-growth, that is ... true growth for Oklahoma.

[metro]

I wonder how crow tastes to all the naysayers

[ljbab728]

Next door liquor sales is not the same as getting it all at the same time. 1 basket of goods to be purchased, 1 line, 1 cashier, 1 WF or TJ experience and then out to my car for a hasty getaway.

It is a minor inconvenience, but an inconvenience nonetheless.

I want to see a change in our laws and I think people who are resistant to change are anti-growth, that is ... true growth for Oklahoma.

I'm not against a change in the law at all but this sounds like the Walmart Syndrome. Europeans have survived very well by going to different stores for different types of items.

[kevinpate]

I wonder how crow tastes to all the naysayers

like chicken, sans a convenient real beer to warsh it down?

[Ezrablum]

I'm not against a change in the law at all but this sounds like the Walmart Syndrome. Europeans have survived very well by going to different stores for different types of items.

That's laughable. I hate Wal-mart. I do love the first Whole Foods experience I had. Read more.

[OU Adonis]

I may have to go by WF when it opens just to take pictures of all the hippies there.

[metro]

OU, there will be more yuppies than hippies, you want hippies go shoot pics in Paseo or Plaza District.

[OKCMallen]

Lubbock, TX had no problem having very high quality (not quite WF, but significantly better than Homeland) grocers (United's Market Street) before they allowed ANY booze sales in their city, at all.

Clearly, the laws are an impediment to WF and others coming to OKC generally. How could they not be, right? But it's not the ONLY reason we don't have stores coming into town, because here comes WF! (Finally.)

Looking forward to WF. I'd kill for even just a Market Street at this point- someting to bridge the gap between Walmart and run-down Homelands to the high end.

Just something DECENT.

[OSUFan]

To me this goes way beyond alcohol and our ability to recruit upscale grocery stores. It is just a dumb, pointless law.

[OKCMallen]

To me this goes way beyond alcohol and our ability to recruit upscale grocery stores. It is just a dumb, pointless law.

Couldn't agree more.

And the worst part is, the status quo is maintained by this fake neo-conservative "don't we want to protect the liquor store owners from big, mean retail?" line.