Classen Curve

[brownb01]

When people want to stroll/walk/windowshop at an Oklahoma retail location, they do it in a climate-controlled regional mall. Unless it's one of the few days we have in Oklahoma where it's 72 degrees and calm. The only strolling that I've seen at local strip centers is in their architectural renderings (where, amazingly, it appears to be 72 degrees and calm).

maybe you should visit Utica Square.

[metro]

OKCTalker thats the old way of thinking, you must be a suburban OKC builder that hasn't been following national trends.

[bluedogok]

When people want to stroll/walk/windowshop at an Oklahoma retail location, they do it in a climate-controlled regional mall. Unless it's one of the few days we have in Oklahoma where it's 72 degrees and calm. The only strolling that I've seen at local strip centers is in their architectural renderings (where, amazingly, it appears to be 72 degrees and calm).

OKCTalker thats the old way of thinking, you must be a suburban OKC builder that hasn't been following national trends.

Evidently it works because that is all that is being built now coast to coast (as metro stated) and I can guarantee you that it gets hotter down here in Austin than in OKC, it has consistently been that way for the past 6 summers that I have lived here moving from OKC. Just last year we had 69 or so days of 100+ temps and the "cool days" were in the high 90's, we had the highest average temperature on record last year, meaning even lows weren't very low, it would be 88 at 7 in the morning. They have also been building these in places like Minnesota where the winters are much more brutal. The cycle for enclosed malls is done for quite some time but if you enjoy them there should always be a few around in most any city but it will be only the strong that survive.

Why is a big-box mall any different than a strip center? They have more asphalt to create an even greater heat island effect and I see those pretty full in OKC on a hot summer weekend day and in most cases you aren't going to park much closer to the stores than in a lifestyle center.

[tehvipir]

the residents south of the classen curve filled a request or whatever you call it to have no parking signs added in their neighborhood along the curve so that the shoppers cant park and crowd their neighbor hood. also the councilmand said they have done a great job getting that neighborhood to a nice looking place. i doubt they would do much as far as selling it for more parking.

[jbrown84]

It wouldn't be for more parking. It would be for a larger structure that included retail and parking garage and hopefully residential.

[Spartan]

If CC has an Achilles heel it is the parking. It obviously meets code minimums for parking places - even including the many restaurants - but this shows the dangers of achieving only the minimum. I envision that the leases do (or will) require tenant employees to park off-site, and that will have to be enforced.

Maybe (gasp) people will have to park in the mixed-use neighborhood planned across Grand. Maybe they'll do structured parking if it is such a problem. But I have a feeling AMC isn't about to let his project fail because of not enough parking, just like he won't compromise the design to too much parking.

[bluedogok]

I do think parking regs for restaurants are woefully inadequate, any restaurant in an open air mall or strip center tends to dominate the spaces and makes it more difficult for the retailers. I think outside of business districts like downtown or historical areas with a combination of street/garage parking the ratio needs to be higher. I know that in the site planning that we have done many of the lenders require a higher ration than codes do which helps some. I know garage parking is used a lot down here, it is typically not driven by land costs but by impervious cover restrictions. I see a future garage out in that area, maybe by the "planned" WF.

[OKCHerbivore]

I am a resident of Meadowbrook Acres (the hood just behind Classen Curve), and perhaps the lessons many of us here have been trying to work into each new development in OKC about walkability can serve as a firm reminder to the folks talking about the parking issues for Classen Curve.

Obviously, having a better blend of dense housing near such goods and services adds a built in crowd of "regulars" to the right kind of shops. So far, Classen Curve is a mixed bag, the more "upscale" and specialized the shops from workaday needs of nearby residents, the more it is going to be a "drive-in" type of area. That is to say, I am a vegetarian, thrilled to have an actual vegetarian restaurant 5 min's walk from my door, except that 105 Degrees is fantastically expensive as a frequent place to eat (except for their smoothies), so there for it remains a special occasion place. Though, it is delicious and very well-made food.

So a better blend of common shops and services with the higher-end shops that can make the place special is one needed goal.

The next is a reminder of AMC's goal of making the Chesapeake area a "second downtown" as he said in a Gazette interview awhile back. While initially, I snickered at this, when my wife and I moved intro a rental house in the area (from Jefferson Park/Paseo), I grew a vested interest in seeing this area become denser. And it can happen in an interesting way, especially since the streets just West of the CHK campus are all triangle-forming, interactive streets.

Yet glaring basic infrastructure needs exist here: sidewalks, streetwall, dense housing, some basic neighborhood identity and cohesion.

If the city and CHK can work in collusion on these basic (and not so basic, i.e. housing) pieces, the area can actually become a larger neighborhood, holding out a last vestige of mixed-use property before Nichols Hills occurs just north of here.

As for the parking issue on Classen Curve, for sure RePUBlic has shown that it can vastly own the lots, versus the other shops, and as it fills, I sincerely hope the Curve will be so full of quality shops it will need the parking.

Yet there might be a need for more parking, and perhaps a bit more interesting solution than "just build a garage there" (especially if that garage is meant to be in my neighborhood or near my dog supply store Central Park), is to perhaps build in a local form of shuttle or even (gasp!) trolley that can lead from a main parking garage on the outskirts of the area, not wasting valuable land in the midst of the neighborhood/area. Or even a garage that has a bit of a walk built in, as this will incentivize local housing/and the slight work that walkable neighborhoods inevitably have. OKCers might have to learn to walk a bit.

Yet the main lesson remains: nothing replaces proximity, and nothing solves parking problems like pedestrians. My wife and I are glad to have a place like Classen Curve (and Lord willing, Whole Foods) near enough to walk, and not contribute to the problem parking that is already happening.

The mindset we must change in OKC is that we need better neighborhoods to walk, not more garages.

[jbrown84]

Hopefully any garage would be underneath/behind more retail and/or housing.

[BDP]

When people want to stroll/walk/windowshop at an Oklahoma retail location, they do it in a climate-controlled regional mall.

Not me. I hate those places. Unfortunately, when my family wants to stroll/walk/windowshop, we get on a plane first.

[Dustin]

Just drove through CC for thefirst time. It's very nice! I had no idea it was that large. Although it's a huge place, none of the buildings are big enough to support a WF even if they were to locate here..

[metro]

WF isn't rumored to go in there, but across the street on Grand where they recently tore down a funeral home and office building. That's why most are saying WF in Classen Curve "area".

[Dustin]

WF isn't rumored to go in there, but across the street on Grand where they recently tore down a funeral home and office building. That's why most are saying WF in Classen Curve "area".

oohhhhhhh gotcha

[fromdust]

i finally got to go check out the republic.....and red coyote. i actually think the curve is kinda ugly.

[jdcf]

Although a street separates the two sections of the development, there does not seem to be good pedestrian access from the Balliet's section into the large, main section to the north.

One would have to walk along Grand or go to a stair step that is located at the far western end of the development that goes from the residential area into the develoopment.

To go between sections by car, one would have to go out on Grand.

Seems like there should be better access between the two sections, particularly for pedestrians.

Have I missed something?

Thanks.

[metro]

I thought I'd do a summary of tenants to date:

Classen Curve tenants thus far announced:

Balliets
Cafe 501
Upper Crust Wood Fired Pizza
Red Coyote Running & Fitness
Winter House Interiors
Metro Shoes
Uptown Kids
RePUBlic Gastropub
105 Degrees Restaurant & Academy

[Spartan]

Thanks for the list metro.

[metro]

Welcome, and hopefully we'll add Whole Foods to that list (although not technically in CC) after today's confirmation, BUT if I'm wrong and the new rumor is right it will be downtown which is even better, now all we need is an H&M, Armani Exchange, IKEA and Urban Outfitters and I have no need to shop in Dallas anymore.

[jbrown84]

I saw the sign for Uptown Kids the other night, but what is it?

[skyrick]

I just started looking at this thread, not about to read the whole thing though. After Googling it and looking at a few of the websites featuring it, I have to say I'm not impressed with it architecturally. It reminds me of the DART light rail stations in Dallas. Steel and glass is so '70s, or even '20s if you consider Bauhaus (which I don't). Sounds like you'll have some decent restaurants and shops though, so that's cool.

[Rover]

The Curve is not going to satisfy the "old world" let's make everything look like Tuscany crowd. It is refreshingly urban cool, though I must admit, still a strip center...on steroids. It invites window shopping and walking along the store fronts.

I predict that Elliot will be applauded by the architectural and style communities and may well again win awards.

With Balliets and now with Whole Foods across the street, and with the style of restaurants it is attracting, the Curve will be a fun upscale place to be. It will not be a traditionalists hangout, nor is it intended to be.

[bluedogok]

The Curve is not going to satisfy the "old world" let's make everything look like Tuscany crowd.

I am so tired of doing that faux-Tuscan crap all over Austin/San Antonio, it seems to be the only style most developers like for anything other than downtown buildings. There is a whole other world of possibilities out there and some don't get it, at least they did with CC.

[skyrick]

I am so tired of doing that faux-Tuscan crap all over Austin/San Antonio, it seems to be the only style most developers like for anything other than downtown buildings. There is a whole other world of possibilities out there and some don't get it, at least they did with CC.

Yeah, Arlington Highlands, just east of Parks Mall, has some great shops and restaurants, but it looks like a cheesy Tuscan-town set in the middle of a 50 acre parking lot. Still don't like Classen Curve either, it's too cold and sterile. Frank Lloyd Wright's designs from the 1910s look more modern and warm than anything today. Where are the architects with imagination and vision?

[Rover]

The crowd that likes that faux Tuscan style will love the new lifestyle center being developed just north of Quail Springs mall. But it is a tired style in many parts of the country. They've been there, done that. At least Rand Elliott is trying to do something distinctive and more what you would see developed in San Francisco or Vancouver instead of Austin or Amarillo.

[Spartan]

I don't think I've ever seen more Tuscan-motif construction anywhere in the world than in Midtown Tulsa. Not even Tuscany can match the faux-Tuscan buildings and homes in Tulsa lol. I don't know how I feel about it either..it was nice for the first ten million projects I guess.