Whole Foods

[betts]

I'm fine with it being at Classen Curve. I'm in that neighborhood enough picking my dog up at Central Park that it won't be a big deal to stop there. I never really lusted after a Whole Foods downtown, and would really be happy with a small neighborhood market here. I'm just happy its not in Edmond where I would really have to drive a long distance and have no other reason to go.

[Urban Pioneer]

Congrats Steve on your very exciting "scoop."

As many probably know by now, I do not usually advocate for specific streets in our streetcar planning. However, we are going into a "long-range" planing mode. I think that Classen Curve deserves to be considered a "anchor" destination for the extension of one of our Northern lines.

Rand Elliott has designed something that is architecturally stimulating and made of materials that will ensure that it is around for awhile. Classen Curve could very much be our modern "Utica Square."

Belle Isle was a major destination and source of power for the original streetcar system. It is not inconceivable that it gain relevance once again and be deserving of direct linkage to downtown via a Classen or Western Corridor.

Such a direct connection to a Whole Foods in the area could subsequently help resolve any remaining desire for one directly planted in downtown. "Food for thought" as these planning processes go forward.

[okclee]

Okay we're Okc is getting a Whole Foods.

So where will the second location be?

I am guessing Norman and Edmond gets the third.

[soonerguru]

To those upset or less-than-enthused by this not being downtown, do you have any idea where Tulsa's is? It is WAY south of downtown at 41st and Peoria, so south of downtown, Cherry Street, Brookside and many would even say pushing the boundary of Midtown.

WAY south? It's like a ten minute ride on Riverside drive from downtown, and it's in a hip, walkable mixed-use area. Quit knocking Tulsa. 41st and Peoria is certainly closer in than 63rd and Western.

[dismayed]

Have you been to Whole Foods?

If you cook your own food regularly you will eventually become very frustrated in OKC with what you have to work with today. The difference in selection and quality of food and ingredients at, say, Homeland, and a Whole Foods is staggering.

This x 1,000,000.

[MadMonk]

Have you been to Whole Foods?

Yes

If you cook your own food regularly you will eventually become very frustrated in OKC with what you have to work with today. The difference in selection and quality of food and ingredients at, say, Homeland, and a Whole Foods is staggering.

If/when Whole Foods opens here, I will visit the store multiple times weekly.

My wife and I cook nearly every day. I still won't drive to the other side of town every week to shop at WF. Similarly, while I think the Warren is the best theater in the area, I don't drive to Moore to see every movie I go to either. It's not even about price, its about convenience and time. I don't have the time or the inclination to drive across town to shop at WF every week or two. Maybe every once in a while for something I can't find elsewhere, but nothing on a regular basis.

I also believe that once people see the quality of WF with it's outstanding selections of cheeses, produce, and quality meats and it's tremendous salad bar and cooking classes etc.. then people will want to go out of their way and shop for "quality" items. It won't be your run of the mill OKC supermarket. I also find that people with high education levels tend to have higher incomes and can afford to pay for quality. The saying is so true, "You get what you pay for" philosophy. People either want quality or they do not.

Look, I'm not trying to put down WF. I like the place. You don't have to sell me on it. I'm sure it will do great with the neighborhoods around it. I'm just saying that one WF in the metro centrally located won't draw a huge amount of regular business from the outlying areas such as Yukon, Mustang, Norman, Edmond, Del City or Midwest City. I live in far NW OKC but a downtown store would be very convenient for me because I work there. But if I didn't work DT (and I didn't up until the last year or so) I wouldn't even consider driving downtown, or to Classen curve on a regular basis to shop for groceries. This is just my opinion of course, but nobody I know in my well educated, professional, and very well-paid circle of friends and acquaintances would drive that far for groceries on a regular basis. I think it's fantastic that we are getting a WF and I very much hope that they plan for more locations to serve the more far-flung areas of the metro. I think our city could support it.

MM,
Please define "human nature"..

Google (and in this case Wikipedia) are your friend.
From Human nature - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Human nature is the concept that there is a set of inherent distinguishing characteristics, including ways of thinking, feeling and acting, that humans tend to have."

[foodiefan]

[QUOTE=MadMonk;324641]

I wouldn't even consider driving downtown, or to Classen curve on a regular basis to shop for groceries. This is just my opinion of course, but nobody I know in my well educated, professional, and very well-paid circle of friends and acquaintances would drive that far for groceries on a regular basis.

I know many that would. . . on a regular basis. . . I already drive to Crescent Mkt, Farmer's Market (OSU/OKC, NH), Kamp's, PTB, Med Deli. . .not for everything (Clorox is Clorox. . .) but for the things worth driving for. . .and I still will for the "local" things I love. . . but for those "far flung" goodies they don't carry. . .you betcha, I'll drive!!

[brianinok]

This is AWESOME!!! While I live north of Quail Springs, I will drive to Whole Foods for most of my shopping. If I just need to pick a few basic things up quickly I'll head over to Crest or Super Target. FINALLY, a great grocery store in this city!

[mugofbeer]

Now that it seems to be confirmed, y'all (and me included) better plan to shop the h - e - double hockey sticks out of that store. It would be pretty embarassing if they closed it due to lack of business.

[foodiefan]

. . . soon as the doors open!! And. . . the "Soooner" the better!!

[JerzeeGrlinOKC]

I have no words...



Ok I have words

WOOHHHHHHOOOOO!!!!! XD

[EBAH]

Yes, this is great news. Im glad there is a confirm, so hopefully the construction will be soon to follow. I think the CC location is great. I mean sure, I'd love to have it in Automobile Alley, or even in the inner city proper, 23rd/classen, or something like that. But I am just SOOO happy it isn't in Edmond (not that there was rumor of that or anything).

[bluedogok]

I wouldn't bet on a lot of that. People are pragmatic enough that they won't regularly shop somewhere miles out of their way once the novelty wears thin. Sure, there will be a few who do, but not enough to make a big difference.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I think you overestimate the amount of extra time and money people want to spend on grocery shopping, regardless of their age, education level or profession. It's just human nature.

We only have two in Austin, the far north location that was slated to move about a mile to The Domain before Phase III was put on hold and downtown location under their HQ tower. Austin wouldn't have a downtown location if it wasn't for the HQ being above it. We have no WF in South Austin, we do have a Central Market which is about half the size of the downtown store and the smaller Sprout's, Newflower and Sun Harvest markets and all seem to survive but are nowhere near as busy as Whole Foods or Central Market.

The Whole Foods downtown is pretty much nuts all the time, this is while there are only about 10,000 living in Downtown Austin at this time. I know many who do shop there who live as far away as Kyle/Buda, some 25-30 miles away and traffic here is worse than OKC. Many who work on one end of town and live in the other stop by there multiple times a week, on weekends it is a madhouse. It is a destination store and there are those who go out of their way to go there even when there are other options closer. Sure there are people who the matter of convenience or absolute low price are more important but there are just as many who prefer quality (whether legitimate or implied, that is a different discussion) over convenience and will take the extra time. I know there are stores that I do that with in other areas of retail. I think it will do very well there.

wait, Cinco De Mayo isn't the Mexican version of April Fools is it? j/k

Nope, Corona marketed it as the Mexican St. Patrick's Day....

[Dustin]

Now that it seems to be confirmed, y'all (and me included) better plan to shop the h - e - double hockey sticks out of that store. It would be pretty embarassing if they closed it due to lack of business.

It's the only store in OKC.. It's gonna be elbow to elbow in there!

[Oil Capital]

It looks like this thread is part correct, part wrong. They may have gotten the date very close, with June 2011 sounding pretty reasonable if it's u/c right now and lease signed with Chesapeake. Obviously not downtown though.

I feel like "lease signed" is a confirmation that it is Chesapeake. WF does build and own their own stores in many cities, including Tulsa. However they said "lease signed" meaning someone else is building it for them. Last time I checked I was not aware of any shopping under construction in downtown, although the east end of Bricktown is seeing a lot of mysterious site work right now.. "lease signed" could only mean ONE thing -- Chesapeake.

Huh? Whole Foods built and owns their store in Tulsa? Very odd, considering it was a Wild Oats first, and the building existed before it was a Wild Oats. Any chance you have a source for your statement that Whole Foods builds and owns their stores in "many cities"? It is certainly not true of their Tulsa store. For the record, as of Sept. 27, 2009, Whole Foods operated 284 stores. They own a total of 11 of those 284 stores. The rest are leased.

And contrary to your suggestion above, leases can be, and often are, signed with developers before any construction has started.

Caution everyone, Spartan is manufacturing "facts" again.

[bluedogok]

Whole Foods owns their store/HQ tower in Downtown Austin, I think the tower is jointly owned with the developer or it was the last time that I heard anything about it. The other Austin location is a lease and the proposed Domain location was a lease/build-to-suit location. They do have some build-to-suit locations across the country but typically it is a long term lease/build-to-suit and not a purchased location, although they do have a few of those.

I know that most of the Walgreen's stores in OKC are long term leases (not 100 year though) with a build-to-suit building on it. The only "turn-key" store that I did was in Enid, at completion of construction Walgreen's bought the building from the developer.

[gmwise]

Then is humans by nature self serving?
evil?
deceitful?
Or is humans by nature serving others?
good?
truthful?

Or is humans nature is learned?


I would like your POV.

[Spartan]

Huh? Whole Foods built and owns their store in Tulsa? Very odd, considering it was a Wild Oats first, and the building existed before it was a Wild Oats.

Mmmk Oil Capital, would you like to imply that Wild Oats owns the building at 41st and Peoria? That's rich. I presume you're just trying to pick an argument with me at all costs, so you're grasping at straws trying to pick at anything you can. And for the record, Whole Foods DID renovate the 41st/Peoria location shortly after they acquired it from Wild Oats.

Quit knocking Tulsa.

But, but.. this is OKC Talk.. it's what we do.

[MadMonk]

I know many that would. . . on a regular basis. . . I already drive to Crescent Mkt, Farmer's Market (OSU/OKC, NH), Kamp's, PTB, Med Deli. . .not for everything (Clorox is Clorox. . .) but for the things worth driving for. . .and I still will for the "local" things I love. . . but for those "far flung" goodies they don't carry. . .you betcha, I'll drive!!

Well to each their own. Judging only by your name I imagine that you are more of a food connoisseur than the average person and can only assume you have more time to do your shopping than I do.

Then is humans by nature self serving?
evil?
deceitful?
Or is humans by nature serving others?
good?
truthful?

Or is humans nature is learned?


I would like your POV.

I'm not sure where you're headed with this, but I'm not really interested in a philosophical discussion of human nature. My mentioning of that phrase was intended to make the point that the average person won't regularly go far out of their way to get a top-quality product if it's an burdensome inconvenience of time and effort and a "good enough" product will suffice. Lets just leave it at that on this thread.

[semisimple]

We only have two in Austin, the far north location that was slated to move about a mile to The Domain before Phase III was put on hold and downtown location under their HQ tower. Austin wouldn't have a downtown location if it wasn't for the HQ being above it. We have no WF in South Austin, we do have a Central Market which is about half the size of the downtown store and the smaller Sprout's, Newflower and Sun Harvest markets and all seem to survive but are nowhere near as busy as Whole Foods or Central Market.

The Whole Foods downtown is pretty much nuts all the time, this is while there are only about 10,000 living in Downtown Austin at this time. I know many who do shop there who live as far away as Kyle/Buda, some 25-30 miles away and traffic here is worse than OKC. Many who work on one end of town and live in the other stop by there multiple times a week, on weekends it is a madhouse. It is a destination store and there are those who go out of their way to go there even when there are other options closer. Sure there are people who the matter of convenience or absolute low price are more important but there are just as many who prefer quality (whether legitimate or implied, that is a different discussion) over convenience and will take the extra time. I know there are stores that I do that with in other areas of retail. I think it will do very well there.

To say "only" 10,000 people live in downtown Austin is perhaps a bit misleading. Just including the campus neighborhoods and part of Clarksville, there are over 30,000 people in about three square miles, and this entire area has an urban fabric akin to a "downtown." Moreover, central Austin is the most desirable part of town and thus most of the neighborhoods in and surrounding downtown are filled with the very kind of people who will shop at Whole Foods. In OKC, by contrast, most of the areas surrounding downtown (excluding those to the north) are among the least desirable in town.

Though I'm perhaps tripping over your choice of words, your assertion that WF is in downtown Austin "just because that's where the HQ is" seems a bit, well, silly. If WF wasn't there, it is almost certain that something else would have filled the void by now (I also note the presence of Central Market ~2 miles away, and the well-publicized interest HEB has in a downtown store)--even by your own admission, the store is wildly successful, perhaps mostly because there's an "effective" downtown population larger than 10,000 there to support it.

[BG918]

To those upset or less-than-enthused by this not being downtown, do you have any idea where Tulsa's is? It is WAY south of downtown at 41st and Peoria, so south of downtown, Cherry Street, Brookside and many would even say pushing the boundary of Midtown.

41st & Peoria is considered Brookside and is very much within the boundaries of midtown. Is less than 4 miles "WAY south" and "so south of downtown"? Geographically a similar location in OKC would be Crown Heights just south of 44 as far as distance from downtown OKC. The Classen Curve/Chesapeake/Nichols Hills is a great place for WF.

[Oil Capital]

Mmmk Oil Capital, would you like to imply that Wild Oats owns the building at 41st and Peoria? That's rich. I presume you're just trying to pick an argument with me at all costs, so you're grasping at straws trying to pick at anything you can. And for the record, Whole Foods DID renovate the 41st/Peoria location shortly after they acquired it from Wild Oats.

mmmm... You cannot be serious. You read that post and seriously want to pretend to believe that I was implying that Wild Oats owns the building? Seriously? Rich, indeed.

Let me spell it out in short declarative sentences. Wild Oats does not own the building at 41st and Peoria. Wild Oats never has owned the building at 41st and Peoria.l Whole Foods does not own the building at 41st and Peoria. Whole Foods never has owned the building at 41st and Peoria. Wild Oats did not build the building at 41st and Peoria. Whole Foods did not build the building at 41st and Peoria. Whole Foods leases the building at 41st and Peoria.

My post was solely for the purpose of correcting your misstatements with regard to the ownership and construction of the building at 41st and Peoria.

And for the record, Whole Foods' renovation of the store is completely irrelevant to the question of who owns the building. Leased stores are routinely renovated by lessees.

I'll make you a deal: You stop posting made-up "facts" and I'll stop correcting you.

[Oil Capital]

WAY south? It's like a ten minute ride on Riverside drive from downtown, and it's in a hip, walkable mixed-use area. Quit knocking Tulsa. 41st and Peoria is certainly closer in than 63rd and Western.

Yes, it's about a mile closer.

[onthestrip]

Spartan, the new metro!

[Spartan]

mmmm... You cannot be serious. You read that post and seriously want to pretend to believe that I was implying that Wild Oats owns the building? Seriously? Rich, indeed.

Let me spell it out in short declarative sentences. Wild Oats does not own the building at 41st and Peoria. Wild Oats never has owned the building at 41st and Peoria.l Whole Foods does not own the building at 41st and Peoria. Whole Foods never has owned the building at 41st and Peoria. Wild Oats did not build the building at 41st and Peoria. Whole Foods did not build the building at 41st and Peoria. Whole Foods leases the building at 41st and Peoria.

My post was solely for the purpose of correcting your misstatements with regard to the ownership and construction of the building at 41st and Peoria.

And for the record, Whole Foods' renovation of the store is completely irrelevant to the question of who owns the building. Leased stores are routinely renovated by lessees.

I'll make you a deal: You stop posting made-up "facts" and I'll stop correcting you.

Why don't you look it up on the Tulsa County Assessor's website, ****.. you don't know **** either. Nice try for the "revelations" you try and post though.