Liquor laws holding back Grocers to open

[progressiveboy]

New Grocers struggling with Oklahoma's liquor laws. Saw this article in the Journal Record. It appears that the archaic laws in the State are holding back grocery retailers.



Lot Lines: Supermarkets show frustration at liquor laws

[metro]

I still have yet to see an article I've with a retailer being quoted on anything about the liquor laws being the hold up. So far it's been local opinionist journalists.

[okcpulse]

New Grocers struggling with Oklahoma's liquor laws. Saw this article in the Journal Record. It appears that the archaic laws in the State are holding back grocery retailers.



Lot Lines: Supermarkets show frustration at liquor laws

There is a discrepancy with the article. The columnist pointed out that Oklahoma is only one of five states to ban liquor and wine from being sold in grocery stores.

It should actually read Oklahoma is only one of five states that allow grocery stores to sell only 3.2 beer.

There are only a dozen states that allow grocery stores to sell liquor, wine and beer. The rest allow beer and wine only in grocery stores except a small handful of states do not allow any alcohol sales in supermarkets, mostly in the northeastern region of the U.S.

[okclee]

Do we have a factual list of the states and their alcohol laws?

Minnesota is much like Oklahoma, selling 3.2 beer in grocery stores only.

[venture]

It is Wiki, but here is a list: List of alcohol laws of the United States by state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If people are worried about the validity of the list, all the sources are at the bottom of the page so feel free to check each one. lol

[ddavidson8]

Of all the complaints about Oklahoma being backwards, this is the one I think holds the most weight. We're trying to draw conventions and buisness to OKC but we can't sell regulary budweiser? Get a million dollar CEO here and tell him we only have domestic near beers and look at the look on his face.

[Thunder]

Both Oklahoma City’s and Tulsa’s grocery industries are quite stable. In fact, neither city lost any major supermarkets during the retail downturn of the past year. Furthermore, as more people are cutting back expenses and are not eating out as much, Oklahoma supermarkets have seen improving sales over the past two years.

Albertsons.

[okcpulse]

Of all the complaints about Oklahoma being backwards, this is the one I think holds the most weight. We're trying to draw conventions and buisness to OKC but we can't sell regulary budweiser? Get a million dollar CEO here and tell him we only have domestic near beers and look at the look on his face.

If that were true and we apply the same logic to Salt Lake City, then Salt Lake City would also have a problem drawing convention and business.

Utah is the only other state that does not sell regular Budweiser, or any of the other major domestic brews.

[venture]

If that were true and we apply the same logic to Salt Lake City, then Salt Lake City would also have a problem drawing convention and business.

Utah is the only other state that does not sell regular Budweiser, or any of the other major domestic brews.

Salt Lake City has other things that would probably counter any draw back to liquor laws. If want to use that comparison then which would you pick...convention in city with mountains, ski resorts, etc...or one with flat prairie land? Not say we don't have other things to draw, but OKC =! SLC.

[blake]

Of all the complaints about Oklahoma being backwards, this is the one I think holds the most weight. We're trying to draw conventions and buisness to OKC but we can't sell regulary budweiser? Get a million dollar CEO here and tell him we only have domestic near beers and look at the look on his face.

Why would a "million dollar CEO":

1. Be in a supermarket buying beer
2. Care

[kevinpate]

Given the number of grocers in place, whether Wally worlds Target, IGA, Crest, moma and pops, Homeland etc., etc., etc., that seem to function ok without the alcohol sales, it's hard to see how operating sans alcohol sales could be a big ol' stumbling block.

Sell wine, or don't, i don't have a dawg in the fight. But it seems there's simply got to be bigger issues standing in the way given we have no shortage of places to buy food.

[skyrick]

I drove a beer truck in OKC from 1975-79 (Dale Distributing-Miller Brewery) and I remember sometime in there that Byron Gambulous tried to do some legal maneuvering so that he could purchase real Coors (not 3.2) from a dsitributor other than the local Coors franchise (the name of my distinguished former competitor escapes me now.) His contention was that since the product he was interested in was in EXCESS of 3.2% by volume, it was an alcoholic beverage and could thus be sold by any of the liquor distributors instead of the exclusive franchises granted by the major breweries. If I recall correctly, the State agreed with that contention. The Big 3, (Coors, Miller & Bud) stated that if they could not have absolute control over distributorship of what we Okies mistakenly call "strong" beer, they would withdraw their product from the market in Oklahoma, which they did. Oklahoma ABC permits franchising 3.2 beer so they continued to sell their near beer (3.2) to groceries and convenience stores.

In fairness to Coors, at that time their beer was not pasteurized and had to be kept refrigerated from brewery to retail outlet. Their contention is that it would hinder their quality control efforts if they had to monitor numerous wholesalers around the state instead of a relative handful of franchises.

Once that happened it opened the floodgates for a few canny businessmen. From 1980-88 I drove a truck for Rich Distributing. With the Big 3 out of the liquor stores we owned the "strong" beer business in OKC. Our product line was anything other than Miller, Bud, Coors. We had Little Kings, Moosehead, Dos Equis, PBR, Black Label, Ringnes, Heineken, St Pauli Girl, Rheinlander, Guinness, Bass, Harp, Corona, Chihuahua, Tecate, Pearl, Beck's, Grolsch, Foster's, etc. etc. etc.

A question for current residents: Is there still no regular Coors, Bud and Miller available in liquor stores?

BTW, I remember while growing up in OKC that we called real beer "Strong" or "6 point". Real beer is closer to 3.8-4.2 % alcohol by volume. Only the German double-bocks and a couple of others approach 6%. When I was in the biz I remember Kulminator from Germany held the record, close to 7%.

[okcpulse]

I drove a beer truck in OKC from 1975-79 (Dale Distributing-Miller Brewery) and I remember sometime in there that Byron Gambulous tried to do some legal maneuvering so that he could purchase real Coors (not 3.2) from a dsitributor other than the local Coors franchise (the name of my distinguished former competitor escapes me now.) His contention was that since the product he was interested in was in EXCESS of 3.2% by volume, it was an alcoholic beverage and could thus be sold by any of the liquor distributors instead of the exclusive franchises granted by the major breweries. If I recall correctly, the State agreed with that contention. The Big 3, (Coors, Miller & Bud) stated that if they could not have absolute control over distributorship of what we Okies mistakenly call "strong" beer, they would withdraw their product from the market in Oklahoma, which they did. Oklahoma ABC permits franchising 3.2 beer so they continued to sell their near beer (3.2) to groceries and convenience stores.

In fairness to Coors, at that time their beer was not pasteurized and had to be kept refrigerated from brewery to retail outlet. Their contention is that it would hinder their quality control efforts if they had to monitor numerous wholesalers around the state instead of a relative handful of franchises.

Once that happened it opened the floodgates for a few canny businessmen. From 1980-88 I drove a truck for Rich Distributing. With the Big 3 out of the liquor stores we owned the "strong" beer business in OKC. Our product line was anything other than Miller, Bud, Coors. We had Little Kings, Moosehead, Dos Equis, PBR, Black Label, Ringnes, Heineken, St Pauli Girl, Rheinlander, Guinness, Bass, Harp, Corona, Chihuahua, Tecate, Pearl, Beck's, Grolsch, Foster's, etc. etc. etc.

A question for current residents: Is there still no regular Coors, Bud and Miller available in liquor stores?

BTW, I remember while growing up in OKC that we called real beer "Strong" or "6 point". Real beer is closer to 3.8-4.2 % alcohol by volume. Only the German double-bocks and a couple of others approach 6%. When I was in the biz I remember Kulminator from Germany held the record, close to 7%.

Yes, franchising is still not allowed. However, laws concerning wineries and wine tasting events have been relaxed.

[twade]

Two huge hurdles stand in the way of getting liquor laws relaxed in Oklahoma.

1) Liquor stores

All you have to do is look at Lubbock, TX. The "Strip" kept Lubbock from becoming wet for years. There is a lot of money tied up in liquor stores, and they don't want people encroaching on their territory. Hell in Norman, there is one on about every street corner.

2) Rural districts

The reason these bills never get out of committee is because rural areas, believe it or not, will be hurt by relaxing the laws. This last bill didn't get out of committee because it only applied to Oklahoma and Tulsa, and senators for rural areas believed that the grocery and liquor stores in their districts would be hurt by people driving to OKC or Tulsa for their goods.

I'm notably leaving out a certain segment of the religious community that has held onto the idea of temperance, but I don't they would be able to keep the laws from being changed. I think money, more importantly where the money is located, is the dominate factor.

[BDP]

With the press we have been getting recently about our other laws, I think that liquor laws may be the least of our worries when it comes to attracting to new businesses to the state.

[okcpulse]

With the press we have been getting recently about our other laws, I think that liquor laws may be the least of our worries when it comes to attracting to new businesses to the state.

Uughh... how many times to we have to beat this dead horse.

You guys act like every soul that lives outside Oklahoma's borders are liberal, enlightened super-beings, and that every company outside of Oklahoma is a liberal think tank.

The only legislation the business community will every give a crap about is legislation that will effect our bottom line. I work for a Fortune 500 company in Houston, and the only time I hear about Oklahoma's legislation is when I go on Newsok.com.

[BDP]

You got to be kidding. Our new laws have been top news all week and some articles on it were some of the most shared this week. For a few days it was hard to turn on the national news, read any poltical papers, forums, or editorials without seeing a discussion on it and most of it was not pretty. It was even hard to log onto any social media and not see several postings from people around the country who were sharing articles on it. You may not like it, but it does matter, especially in a state that carries so much bad image baggage to begin with.

Most Fortune 500 companies are extremely dependent on their human resources. They want to be where they can hire the best. This generally means well educated people whose services and knowledge are in high demand. These people generally got to where they are in a broader goal to achieve a high quality of life. Now there is always a bottom line factor, of course, but not at the expense of access to the resources they need to be a successful company, which, most importantly, includes a well qualified workforce. There is a reason, as a state with one of the cheapest costs of doing business in the nation, there are only 4 fortune 500 companies here, and that's because cost isn't the only variable in P&L analysis. Revenue is just as important, and today's top companies depend on well educated and well qualified human resources to generate that revenue.

Now, do you really want to say that a company is going to ignore the fact that if they locate in Oklahoma they will have to compete for the services of well educated, highly demanded human resources against companies in others states that don't protect doctors who intentionally lie to their patients? That immediately puts them at a significant disadvantage. They have to convince these people to live here and we should be doing things to be more competitive in this arena, rather than less competitive. Not to mention the grave physical, emotional, and financial risk at which this puts all of Oklahoma's potential mothers and their families.

This has nothing to do with liberal versus conservative political posturing or whether not any company has political tendencies that may or may not gel with the culture here. This is about simple quality of life, which, in most people's opinion is not aided by legislation that outright protects fraudulent medical practices. It's simply insane, disgusting, offensive, and no doubt will have much more affect on corporate relocation and the 3rd party firms that research and negotiate these re-locations than not having wine in our grocery stores ever will.

When it comes to safety and civil liberties, I don't think you can beat that horse to death. And to say it has no negative economic impact on the state to enact laws that put the citizens at risk is just willful ignorance.

[BG918]

You got to be kidding. Our new laws have been top news all week and some articles on it were some of the most shared this week. For a few days it was hard to turn on the national news, read any poltical papers, forums, or editorials without seeing a discussion on it and most of it was not pretty. It was even hard to log onto any social media and not see several postings from people around the country who were sharing articles on it. You may not like it, but it does matter, especially in a state that carries so much bad image baggage to begin with.

Most Fortune 500 companies are extremely dependent on their human resources. They want to be where they can hire the best. This generally means well educated people whose services and knowledge are in high demand. These people generally got to where they are in a broader goal to achieve a high quality of life. Now there is always a bottom line factor, of course, but not at the expense of access to the resources they need to be a successful company, which, most importantly, includes a well qualified workforce. There is a reason, as a state with one of the cheapest costs of doing business in the nation, there are only 4 fortune 500 companies here, and that's because cost isn't the only variable in P&L analysis. Revenue is just as important, and today's top companies depend on well educated and well qualified human resources to generate that revenue.

Now, do you really want to say that a company is going to ignore the fact that if they locate in Oklahoma they will have to compete for the services of well educated, highly demanded human resources against companies in others states that don't protect doctors who intentionally lie to their patients? That immediately puts them at a significant disadvantage. They have to convince these people to live here and we should be doing things to be more competitive in this arena, rather than less competitive. Not to mention the grave physical, emotional, and financial risk at which this puts all of Oklahoma's potential mothers and their families.

This has nothing to do with liberal versus conservative political posturing or whether not any company has political tendencies that may or may not gel with the culture here. This is about simple quality of life, which, in most people's opinion is not aided by legislation that outright protects fraudulent medical practices. It's simply insane, disgusting, offensive, and no doubt will have much more affect on corporate relocation and the 3rd party firms that research and negotiate these re-locations than not having wine in our grocery stores ever will.

When it comes to safety and civil liberties, I don't think you can beat that horse to death. And to say it has no negative economic impact on the state to enact laws that put the citizens at risk is just willful ignorance.

Well said, and I fully agree. Our state legislature is being very anti-business with its new laws. The best solution is to vote them out next election.

I want to see wine/beer in the groceries like many others but would really like to see more independent microbreweries. Legislation that allows brewpubs to brew/sell 3.2+ beer on the premises would potentially encourage such brewpubs to open. You could see a COOP Ale Works brewpub or Marshall's brewpub in Tulsa, among others. The current microbreweries like Bricktown and Coach's only can brew/sell 3.2 beer.

[JIMBO]

WOW! We just went from how Oklahoma liquer laws affect business decisions to; state abortion law in only 17 posts. This must be some sort of record.

[Bunty]

And if Stillwater voters drive their mayor out of office on a recall May 11 based largely on him being publicly intoxicated and asking a woman to show him her breasts, both charges unfounded and lacking proof, then out of staters will think they got Hooterville going on in the Oklahoma.

[plmccordj]

Wouldn't this post be more relevant in the politics area?

[venture]

Wouldn't this post be more relevant in the politics area?

This whole forum has become a politics forums. Not that Pete or the other mods have noticed. They would actually have to read and visit the site for that.

[Larry OKC]

And if Stillwater voters drive their mayor out of office on a recall May 11 based largely on him being publicly intoxicated and asking a woman to show him her breasts, both charges unfounded and lacking proof, then out of staters will think they got Hooterville going on in the Oklahoma.

But isn't "Hooterville" what he was allegedly trying to see...LOL (sorry, but just couldn't resist)

[okcpulse]

You got to be kidding. Our new laws have been top news all week and some articles on it were some of the most shared this week. For a few days it was hard to turn on the national news, read any poltical papers, forums, or editorials without seeing a discussion on it and most of it was not pretty. It was even hard to log onto any social media and not see several postings from people around the country who were sharing articles on it. You may not like it, but it does matter, especially in a state that carries so much bad image baggage to begin with.

Most Fortune 500 companies are extremely dependent on their human resources. They want to be where they can hire the best. This generally means well educated people whose services and knowledge are in high demand. These people generally got to where they are in a broader goal to achieve a high quality of life. Now there is always a bottom line factor, of course, but not at the expense of access to the resources they need to be a successful company, which, most importantly, includes a well qualified workforce. There is a reason, as a state with one of the cheapest costs of doing business in the nation, there are only 4 fortune 500 companies here, and that's because cost isn't the only variable in P&L analysis. Revenue is just as important, and today's top companies depend on well educated and well qualified human resources to generate that revenue.

Now, do you really want to say that a company is going to ignore the fact that if they locate in Oklahoma they will have to compete for the services of well educated, highly demanded human resources against companies in others states that don't protect doctors who intentionally lie to their patients? That immediately puts them at a significant disadvantage. They have to convince these people to live here and we should be doing things to be more competitive in this arena, rather than less competitive. Not to mention the grave physical, emotional, and financial risk at which this puts all of Oklahoma's potential mothers and their families.

This has nothing to do with liberal versus conservative political posturing or whether not any company has political tendencies that may or may not gel with the culture here. This is about simple quality of life, which, in most people's opinion is not aided by legislation that outright protects fraudulent medical practices. It's simply insane, disgusting, offensive, and no doubt will have much more affect on corporate relocation and the 3rd party firms that research and negotiate these re-locations than not having wine in our grocery stores ever will.

When it comes to safety and civil liberties, I don't think you can beat that horse to death. And to say it has no negative economic impact on the state to enact laws that put the citizens at risk is just willful ignorance.

I never said I agree with what the legislature is doing. But Oklahoma is not the only state wrestling with controversial legislation. Our state is in the headlines now. Tomorrow, there will be another, and then another. There are 50, and not a single state agrees with the other completely when it comes to controversy.

I agree with you that the legislature is indeed being very non-productive. If they cannot produce good legislation, they're fired. It's no wonder why Oklahoma has term limits.

However right now, BDP, you are witnessing the most aggressive form of political segregation this nation has ever seen. And your social boards and media types are so disgustingly biased, conservative or liberal, that I am disgusted with politics. Life is so much more beautiful and enjoyable without the nastiness of American politics and social trends. I tossed this right wing vs. left wing crap in the Asplundh wood-chipper after November 2008. A bunch of mouthy f**ks on television is a real turn off, we are much better than the jargon we are allowing ourselves to be exposed.

If we truly, truly love Oklahoma, then take action. Do something. Don't accept what people across the country are saying. Focus and push a solution... in a non-partisan manner. That is how Oklahoma City transformed. I kid you not, if partisan politics were involved, then Oklahoma City would still be in 1992.

[stephy]

then Oklahoma City would still be in 1992.

Some of you people are beyond delusional about this city. It is still in 1992.

No real beer, no good shopping, no good jobs, no fios.

Redneck, hicky entertainment.

Medieval laws foring rape and incest victims to undergo intrusive medical procedures so they can see the abomination growing in them and causing them to relive the horror that put it there.

I'm almost astonished that there aren't still witchcraft trials here.