Devon Energy Center

[ronronnie1]

Probably won't make any difference to ronronnie1 but it is my understanding that the pier cracked. It wasn't poured in the wrong place. I for one think it's a good thing they found it when they did.

No, it won't make any difference to me because your "understanding" is merely hearsay, so it wasn't worth mentioning my name now was it?

[jbrown84]

Everything on this board is hearsay, so he's no more in the wrong than you are for calling it a "Three Stooges" project based on the hearsay.

Probably won't make any difference to ronronnie1 but it is my understanding that the pier cracked. It wasn't poured in the wrong place. I for one think it's a good thing they found it when they did.

I just went over there. The problematic pier appears to be replaces but now has a large concrete rectangular base around it.

[ronronnie1]

Someone get back to me when they find out exactly what the problem is with the troublesome pier.

[OK Redneck]

to answer your question, there was an issue with roughly the top 8' of the pier and they had to jack hammer the pier down until the found solid concrete and then they built this large strap concrete beam over the top of it and once that is done then they can stand the column that goes on top of it.

[ronronnie1]

Thank you Redneck!

[John]

Love seeing the Crystal Bridge showing some Thunder spirit!

[OKC@heart]

to answer your question, there was an issue with roughly the top 8' of the pier and they had to jack hammer the pier down until the found solid concrete and then they built this large strap concrete beam over the top of it and once that is done then they can stand the column that goes on top of it.

Are you sure that it wasn't position related? I am not pointing fingers at all in asking because I have been on construction sites enough to know how sometimes those things can happen. Plus the large "rectangular box beam" otherwise known as a transfer beam is typically used to transfer large amounts of load from one position to another laterally such as a case where a column has to land somewhere other than on top of another column to continue to transmit the force directly down. The enormous forces required for the X-fer beam to succeed require that it be so large. So the use of the X-fer supports the missed position theory, more than a bad top pour to the column. If that was it they would have simply been able to jack hammer it out and then set new steel and then re-pour in the same place without the X-fer beam.

[applegrower02]

As I have said in my first post on here, the pier is NOT in the wrong location,the concrete is fine.The extra concrete poured around the pier is flowable fill.It is there to hold the wet soil away from the pier so it can be formed up and concrete poured cleanly.The dewatering well near that location isn't getting the water table down far enough to prevent the wet soil from making this pier a pain in the butt. It was poured high to keep the top of pile elevation clean,so it did have to be chipped down. I know this for I have worked for Berkel and Company for 18 years. So, I do know a little bit about drilled piles.

[architect5311]

I think this is the pier that is in question

I was at the site over the weekend and it did appear to be a transfer beam, a big mother. The pier in question as in Kinggobers pics did look misplaced and what I saw is depicted in below plan.( Red being misplaced column, gray the transfer beam and circle shown as correct pier/column location.)

[mburlison]

Thanks everyone for their insight... dumb question here, but why wouldn't they just redo the whole pillar? since they're in a position to do so 'now', wouldn't that be better than the 'patch' job?

[jn1780]

What did they do exactly? Did they drill another pillar beside the misplaced pillar and now there is a transfer beam between the two pillars where a single pillar will sit on?

[OKC@heart]

Thanks everyone for their insight... dumb question here, but why wouldn't they just redo the whole pillar? since they're in a position to do so 'now', wouldn't that be better than the 'patch' job?

I would tend to agree with you that it would be better to just drill a new one in the correct location, however there are likley other constraints that may be factored in that make it more cost and time effective to use the transfer beam.

As I have not heard this confirmed by anyone that has admitted to being on the site or in the know- probably for PR reasons, (and I can't blame them) if it is infact due to mis placement, the transfer always makes me nervous, becuase you are eccentricly loading a column where it leaves the strata and then x #of floors including sub-grade levels) of building load has got to be a heck of a moment arm within the transfer beam...But rest assured that they would never just do this without the structural engineers running the numbers and oversizing with a generous factor of saftey added in to make sure that the solution is more than acceptable to do the job.

I still would love to hear from one of the contractor guys to verify our suppositions or provide the real story.

[Thunder]

I think they need to tear it down and rebuild in the correct location. It's gonna look awful on the building with one out of place pillar.

[OKC@heart]

Thunder the transfer beam allows for the column to now be in the correct location where it is visible above ground. So there will be no aesthetic impact to the exterior of the building.

It was structural soundness that we were discussing just previously.

[oncendone]

I was at the site over the weekend and it did appear to be a transfer beam, a big mother. The pier in question as in Kinggobers pics did look misplaced and what I saw is depicted in below plan.( Red being misplaced column, gray the transfer beam and circle shown as correct pier/column location.)

I like the way I was chastised for merely suggesting the pier was misplaced, and now, everyone jumps on board as if it is common knowledge, and a common occurence. What do you think Curly, or is it Moe or Larry.

[OKC@heart]

I like the way I was chastised for merely suggesting the pier was misplaced, and now, everyone jumps on board as if it is common knowledge, and a common occurence. What do you think Curly, or is it Moe or Larry.

I don't know who you were trying to infer is a member of the 3 stooges Oncedone, but if I remember correctly this was your original post:

"So, lets see, drop a beam during garage construction, pour concrete base foundation during sub freezing weather, tip over a crane, place a pier in the wrong location and have to jackhammer it out, missed the measurements on glass for the parking garage"

Then having reviewed the responses I did not see any chastising of you for your thoughts on the location issue. The response that I think that your comments created was due to the negative tone that you were casting the contractors in, pre-maturely and unfairly.

Now I am not to assume anything for all I know you may have plenty of onsite construction experience for all I know, however your original statement inferred that the Contractor had some how screwed up by,

"pouring concrete in sub freezing weather" - Which is not an issue for concrete in the temperature ranges that we had at the time, with the addition of using thermal blankets to keep the internal heat generated by the chemical reaction within to avoid differential curing.

The dropped beam and overturned crane are both operator errors, which was out of the control of the contractor because well, we are human and sometimes we make mistakes. Its just that on a very complex and time intensive project such as this when the error occurs with large and heavy objects moving through open air over a working site, the errors have sometimes serious consequences.

Now as far as the main column being in the wrong location. that is a big oops, and should have been avoidable, however I didn't see any attacks of you based on that statement rather a hesitation to jump to any conclusions when there could have been several explanations for the removal of the top portion of the pier. Since we only hear from guys on the site who know for a fact the actual situation, the process is usually a consider the possibilities, and then watch to see what the remedy is that then eliminates the other possibilities leaving the remaining most likely cause as a probable answer.

The glazing on the garage is annoying to see not completed, but who knows what the real issue there is? Has it been confirmed that it was a measurement screw up? Or was it a manufacturer defect or error, or design error?

I hope you realize that this is in no way an attack on you rather an explanation as to why few were willing to jump to your conclusions immediately. It also may have been the negative tone and willingness to throw the contractors under the bus prior to all the information being available.

I for one (having been on many construction sites) am very impressed to this point at the job that has been done on the site. I am also so greatful that the mishaps that we have had have not resulted in serious injury or loss of life.

Lets just the progress continues without more serious delays or accidents happening.

[ndmoore]

The glazing on the garage is annoying to see not completed, but who knows what the real issue there is? Has it been confirmed that it was a measurement screw up? Or was it a manufacturer defect or error, or design error?

A coworker of mine walked over to the garage and asked why some of the glass panels were different and even why there were boards up in some places.

The tint on the window was supposed to be different, you were supposed to see out the glass but not in, they didn't realize this until they almost completed installment. They put boards up to close off the area that allowed them to open the garage instead of putting up all bad glass. They are currently waiting on the arrival of the new glass to install it.

[OKC@heart]

Thanks NDmoore for the information. That is too bad that they got it all installed if it is to be a total redo of the glazing. But like I said before that is a much more likely scenario...mistakes happen, on the site, at the manufacturer, and behind the computer in design from time to time, the key is developing solutions that adequately resolve the issues so that constructability and the desired results of the design intent can be realized in an effective and hopfully timely and cost sensitive manner.

[jmarkross]

I agree with OKC@heart...he seems to be one who knows what he is talking about. Nit-picking and aspersions like the "3 Stooges" does not seem to really serve any purpose...I am in no way an expert on construction--but--I have a logical mind, and a project of this magnitude will, no doubt, have a large amount of issues to be dealt with during it's mission. I would bet the "pillar" issue has a long story behind it that will make sense when it is finally determined. I doubt those who engage in this type of construction are just run-of-the-mill guys off the street...

[Troypin]

does anybody plan on taking pictures down there today i've been reel intrested on what is going on with good detail.

[OKC@heart]

I would love to see current images of the site as well, I am sure that a great deal has taken place in the past week or so.

They are now erecting the shoring for the last remaining third of the first sub grade level.

[jbrown84]

The tint on the window was supposed to be different, you were supposed to see out the glass but not in, they didn't realize this until they almost completed installment. They put boards up to close off the area that allowed them to open the garage instead of putting up all bad glass. They are currently waiting on the arrival of the new glass to install it.

So which glass was bad? The clear-ish or the reflective?

[Troypin]

I would love to see current images of the site as well, I am sure that a great deal has taken place in the past week or so.

They are now erecting the shoring for the last remaining third of the first sub grade level.

That must mean they got the pillar fixed thats good!

[ronronnie1]

I like the way I was chastised for merely suggesting the pier was misplaced, and now, everyone jumps on board as if it is common knowledge, and a common occurence. What do you think Curly, or is it Moe or Larry.

Join the club. I DARED to comment on the misplaced pier, so the whole gang went nuts on me. And it looks like you were right to begin with, oncedone.


Three stooges indeed.

[mburlison]

I'm in I.T., and understand as well how projects have many moving pieces and things just do go awry despite all the diligence (which itself is a function of $ and resources).
just looking at the diagrams and thinking how it must work, isn't there more of a tendency for the downward forces to eventually wreak havoc on the transfer beam itself, I may be misunderstanding if there really is the 'fulcrum' in the middle of it that I'm imagining? In general, though, I do understand with going for a sound alternative as opposed to a complete re-do, if practical. Thanks OKC@Heart, everyone, good stuff.