OKC/Will Rogers Air Service Discussion

[sgray]

Hey guys, anybody notice this report on cnnmoney about united/usair that WAS NEARLY ALL VIDEO SHOTS OF OKC AIRPORT??? Cool Cool.

http://money.cnn.com/video/markets/2...rger.cnnmoney/

[venture]

Hah. Good catch.

Even though I think this merger is DOA by the DOJ for the 3rd time. Of course I may be partial. :-P

[SkyWestOKC]

Alaska Air is supposed to make a major announcement today. Doubt it has anything to do with OKC but you never know. Besides, this thread needs to be revived a little bit.

The website is coming along nicely for those interested.

[Luke]

My parents came to visit us in Tampa and used the OKC-TPA seasonal nonstop from Frontier. They said it was full both ways. I really hope that nonstop becomes more than a seasonal thing. Very convenient.

[SkyWestOKC]

It already ended. It might get picked up again this fall/winter.

[SkyWestOKC]

The Southwest plane was Florida One.

[mugofbeer]

Southwest will add a 3rd daily flight to Denver starting in March. The attack on Frontier is starting...but it is good to know, OKC is one of Frontier's stronger cities.

I just wish we qualified for their larger planes. To me, that's the major attraction of SW over them.

[SkyWestOKC]

The E190 and E170 is a respectable airplane. Lynx Q400 Dash 8 service ended on the 18th of this month and was replaced with E190 and E170 aircraft.

Photos: Embraer ERJ-190-100IGW 190AR Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

That's one I got arriving from Tampa a few months ago.

The E190 is set to get GoGo Inflight Wifi by the end of this year, as a part of the new Frontier service integration plan.

[mugofbeer]

Oh, they aren't bad - better than the prop jobs which were acceptible. It's more a perception/pride issue that an NBA level city can't qualify for full size jets. Plus, flying through storms or landing in Denver's ever-present turbulence can be an adventure in the smaller planes.

[SkyWestOKC]

I agree with the perception issue. It makes me mad when everyone around town are saying we are a major city and etc.. I'm an optimistic person, but people from out of town who fly in sure are disappointed. Can't find anything but a Regional Jet, or if they are lucky might get a mainline. 25 or 30 minutes can go by without seeing one plane move at OKC.

Had a friend from New York come into town a few days ago. He doesn't even see why we need jetways since all of our planes have stairs built into them, except for Southwest. He was being tongue in cheek though, but the point is valid. What is world class and HUGE MAJOR CITY about us? Is it just the NBA? Is it just our MAPS3 program?

I think it is in our minds -- I agree that we are on the way to becoming a "major city", but I don't think we can pat ourselves on the back just yet - we have a way to go.

<-Off my soapbox.

[HOT ROD]

OKC doesn't need to be NYC in order to be a major city. It almost seems like people coming into OKC are expecting it to be the same as Chicago or Dallas or something.

I think that is what many people from out of town fail to realize. And this is what bugs me.

OKC is a major city, because it has 1.3 million people in it's metro area. OKC offers big city amenities and attractions and holds its own weight with cities larger, but also could take improvement lessons from much smaller cities.

That is why I, and many others, frequent this board; because we want OKC to continue to improve. I, for one, am glad that so many people are now taking pride in OKC as a major city.

Also, doesn't United fly all mainliners from Denver? Doesn't AA do mainliners from Dallas?

I would say the fact that OKC has so many RJ's is more due to the change in the industry than it is OKC not be 'major city enough' to have mainliners. Those industry changes included 1) people wanted more frequent flights and 2) people wanted service to markets that really couldn't support a mainline flight on their own most days.

United Airlines flies almost ALL regional jet service from LAX (domestically). Does that make LAX a po-dunk airport? There are many other large cities around the nation with mostly regional jets also - again, it's mostly a sign of the industry.

OKC has more pax now than it ever has (generally speaking) and if you look back in the past, OKC had way more mainliners but quite a bit less flight options/cities.

[SkyWestOKC]

Those major cities with tons of regional jets have RJ's because they are hubs. Take Atlanta for example, they are a hub, with hundreds of RJ's. Hubs feed off of all the cities like ours.

Look at Austin, look at San Antonio, look at Jacksonville, look at Nashville, etc. They have no problem filling seats, having a lot of flights per day, and having a ton of mainline service.

We have 73 flights a day. And about 12 of them are mainline.

Austin has about 150 flights a day, and a majority of them are mainline.

Also, don't miss my point. I am not basing a city's "major" status by the air service. I am basing the air service on the "major" status. As far as the airline industry is going, we aren't really that much ahead of Tulsa and we are trailing far behind Omaha.

[HOT ROD]

how could that be, 12 mainline flights?

United does 5 flights a day to Denver, aren't they all A319 or A320? AA does 2 flights mainline a day to DFW, right. Southwest does 12 flights a day, mainline. Doesn't CO still have 2 mainlines to IAH?

Im not buyin the hub airport argument that you said. OKC has regional jets because the city wanted more frequent service and wanted access to the coasts.

Im sure United could replace those two regional jets from LAX and have one mainline A319 flight or perhaps a mostly full 757. But folks want selection, and right now - LAX couldn't support two mainline flights so RJ works best. Same for DL in ATL.

We could have one flight full as mainline or two flights full as RJ. ... Seems to be an industry trend and not exclusive to OKC.

If people weren't so comfortable driving down to DFW to catch flights, Im sure OKC's numbers might be a bit higher than they are. Speaking of that - MKE once had the same problem with ORD, but now market themselves to Northern Chicago suburbs as the Chicagoland region's 3rd airport. They are having extreme success - as Midwest/Frontier would certainly have much lower numbers without the support from the Chicago juggernaut propping it up with folks driving up from the city.

Is this something Will Rogers should start doing a better job of? Could WRWA shoot for being a sort of 'reliever' airport for DFW, in the same way that MKE has successfully 'relieved' ORD and MDW?

[HOT ROD]

Skywest, you said earlier "what is this world class and major city about us....."

no person ever said OKC was a major city because of it's flight schedule. OKC is a major city because of it's population, and political and (to a lesser extent) economic strengths.

[SkyWestOKC]

Southwest is mainline no matter what so I don't include that in my figures, if you want to count Southwest, we have about 30 mainline flight a day. United has 1x to Denver that is mainline, American has 5 to 6x to Dallas that are mainline, Continental has 1x to Houston that is mainline. Delta and Frontier are 100% contracted out regionals.

Those cities above have virtually no problem supporting mainline to just about anywhere they put it on it.

[SkyWestOKC]

Skywest, you said earlier "what is this world class and major city about us....."

no person ever said OKC was a major city because of it's flight schedule. OKC is a major city because of it's population, and political and (to a lesser extent) economic strengths.

What is world class about 1.3 million people, it's politics, and 2 large oil companies?

I am playing devil's advocate here - I want everyone to know that. I do love this city and am very proud of it. How do we convince others we are this stunning great city we say we are?

[dmoor82]

What is world class about 1.3 million people, it's politics, and 2 large oil companies?

I am playing devil's advocate here - I want everyone to know that. I do love this city and am very proud of it. How do we convince others we are this stunning great city we say we are?

^^ Major city,Yes-in America! World Class? not even close! NO!

[DelCamino]

...Those cities above have virtually no problem supporting mainline to just about anywhere they put it on it.

I suspect passenger count drives the issue of regional jet v. mainline. You cited Austin as having lots of mainliners. Well, their passenger count is more than twice ours. To me, that answers that.

Now your other example, Omaha, I don't know about. Do you know their passenger count number and the number of mainliners they have v. regionals? It would be surprising if those numbers didn't correspond.

PS - thanks for the insight you provide here.

[SkyWestOKC]

Give me about an hour to do some research for Omaha and I will get some detailed stats for you.

[SkyWestOKC]

I can only search schedules for the future, I will choose the week of May 9th for both OKC and Omaha stats.
UA= United Airlines and regional
AA=American Airlines and regional
CO=Continental and regional
DL=Delta and regionals
F9=Frontier and regionals
WN=Southwest Airlines
FL=AirTran Airways (operated by SkyWest Airlines)
YX=Midwest (now Frontier)
US=US Airways and regionals

OMAHA:
AIRLINE = CITY (MAINLINE VS. RGNL.)
UA=DEN (5X MAINLINE 1X RGNL), ORD (5X MAINLINE 2X RGNL)
AA=DFW (5X 0X) ORD (0X 5X)
CO=IAH (1X 5X) EWR (0X 2X)
DL=ATL (0X 4X) SLC (0X 3X) MSP (1X 5X) DTW (0X 3X) CVG (0X 1X) MEM (0X 3X)
F9=DEN (0X 5X) MKE (0X 4X) DCA (0X 1X) MCO (0X 0X SEASONAL)
WN=LAS (3X 0X) PHX (2X 0X) DEN (3X 0X) MCO (0X 0X SAT SVC ONLY) STL (3X 0X) MDW (5X 0X)
FL=MKE (0X 2X)
YX=SEE F9
US=PHX (2X 1X)

->>>>>>>>>MAINLINE: 35 DEPS/ MINUS WN=19
->>>>>>>>>REGIONAL JET: 47 DEPS
->>>>>>>>>TOTAL: 82 DEPS
->>>>>>>>>PERCENT MAINLINE: 42%
->>>>>>>>>PERCENT REGIONAL JET: 58%
->>>>>>>>>N/S DESTINATIONS: 19
->>>>>>>>>PAX/YR (2009): 4.2M

OKC:
UA=DEN (2X MAINLINE 3X RGNL), ORD (0X MAINLINE 5X RGNL) IAD (0X 1X) LAX (0X 2X)
AA=DFW (7X 0X) ORD (0X 5X)
CO=IAH (1X 8X) EWR (0X 1X)
DL=ATL (0X 5X) SLC (0X 3X) MSP (0X 3X) DTW (0X 3X) MEM (0X 3X)
F9=DEN (0X 4X)
WN=LAS (1X 0X) PHX (2X 0X) DEN (2X 0X) STL (2X 0X) MCI (2X 0X) BWI (1X 0X) DAL (4X 0X) HOU (4X 0X)
FL=0X
YX=0X
US=0X

->>>>>>>>>MAINLINE: 28 DEPS MINUS WN=10
->>>>>>>>>REGIONAL JET: 46 DEPS
->>>>>>>>>TOTAL: 74 DEPS
->>>>>>>>>PERCENT MAINLINE: 37%
->>>>>>>>>PERCENT REGIONAL JET: 62%
->>>>>>>>>N/S DESTINATIONS: 19
->>>>>>>>>PAX/YR (2009): 3.3M

[DelCamino]

That's some good info/data. Thanks.

Wow. I'm really surprised about Omaha's passenger counts. That's almost a million more than Will Rogers. Their 2008 metro population numbers are around 850,000, well below our 1.2 mil.

Obviously their population takes to the skies more than people here. Another tidbit of info that shows we need to grow our business sector (finance, technology, banking). If we're successful with building businesses such as this, those employees require travel - ergo, more flights and more mainline planes.

[DelCamino]

Also, glad to see your earlier line about the website coming along. I was at the airport several weeks ago on a 'tour' and asked about it. Was told they knew the current site is bad and they're working on the new one....spending time with the company they hired to create it.

Hope it comes online soon.

[SkyWestOKC]

Oh, no, my personal website devoted to the OKC Airport. Not the flyokc.com one.

[DelCamino]

Oh, no, my personal website devoted to the OKC Airport. Not the flyokc.com one.

Aww man! ugh. lol. And here I was, holding out hope......

[SkyWestOKC]

Yeah, not working out there means no insider info for me.... Except for my back-room "interview" with the Secret Service the other day....I didn't know a foreign dignitary was on that plane lol!