Midtown

[Architect2010]

It's pretty damn close.

It sure isn't urban.

[stlokc]

Absolutely 54th and Portland is suburbia. How else could you describe that area?

[Platemaker]

I'd call anything outside Portland/Wilshire/South Grand/Bryant suburbia. Basically, anything within the Grand Blvd. loop is 'the City' ... suburbia outside that... so 54th and Portland is cusp territory. Some here think anything outside of Classen/I-40/I-235/NW 13th is suburbia... I just roll my eyes at them

[stlokc]

Platemaker, I think you are pretty much on the money. I might not go quite as far west as Portland, particularly that far north. But who cares really?

[Urban Pioneer]

bouldersooner, maybe there was a verbal understanding, but that's it.
Spartan isn't alone in his feelings about the Smith brothers. Now here's the development track record for the Smiths. I'll be happy to hear how it's challenged:
The Packard Building. 201 NW 10. The Smiths sat on it for 7 years, made no visible improvements. It was boarded up with plywood painted blue. And then they sold it off for $5 million than what they paid for it. (Source: county assessor)
The Smiths have a similar track record with properties like the old office supply store on Main Street and more. I know of several prominent downtown folks who tried to buy the historic Main Street Arcade and were devastated when the Smiths bought it. Why is that? It's because they tend to sit on their properties and only sell for a price that makes redeveloping their troubled buildings harder to rehabilitate. That's the view shared by most if not every leading downtowner.
I'm ready to hear an argument as to how the Smiths have a track record of making downtown better - how they are truly developers and not simply flippers who sap strength from the downtown market.

Steve, I'll somewhat take that on. It probably appears insignificant to most people, but I remember that the Smiths (I dealt with the business partner Shawn), developed our building at 228 NE 2nd in Deep Deuce.

We were the first tenants in the old former hotel building and Shawn had the foresight to try to redevelop it into "mixed use". Having lived downtown for many years, it was probably the first downtown neighborhood "mixed-use" building that was extremely pedestrian oriented with multiple apartments overhead and sidewalks abound.

Granted, they did not renovate the building perfectly. There were noise issues and such. But the cheap rent allowed our creative company to thrive and enjoy a truly pedestrian lifestyle. In fact, you kindly wrote about it.

Now Sage occupies the space. and the restaurant owners also own the building. I think that it is safe to say that many other developers came by to look at the concept. The building was "flipped" three or four times. I had to do the yard work many months and deduct it from the rent because it was in such transition.

I will put the plug in that Corsair Cattle bought the buildings cheap, renovated them cheaply, and rented them cheaply.

If we had more reasonably priced rents downtown, and more true mixed-use buildings, downtown would be an even more exciting place to be. I think it took Shawn and his people some additional foresight and negotiating skills to pursue and acquire the Plaza Court building.

Some times "the slumlords" are exactly what you need to get creative/diverse tenants that can afford it and just fix the units up ourselves. We built out our interior by hand and enjoyed doing it. We payed a reasonable price and got exactly what we wanted, a real place in the neighborhood.

[Larry OKC]

LOL sorry but I had to say something, 54th and Portland is suburbia?

LOL...I KNEW I should have put some ref in there on that....no not suburbia but not downtown either...personally see outlying communities as the burbs (Edmond, Yukon, Moore etc)...was just trying to give some perspective on sf prices.

Understand people reining in what defines as Downtown but anything within the OKC city limits is "Urban" (tech means City) any of the smaller, outlying communities are the Suburbs (Sub Urban) and those unincorporated (think undeveloped farmland) is the Rural. Personally don't really see OKC as being "Urban" the way most folks in the threads are seem to be using the term.

[Steve]

Urban Pioneer, curious as to who Shawn is. I'm talking about Cosair Cattle, R.D. and Scott Smith.

[soonerguru]

Urban Pioneer, curious as to who Shawn is. I'm talking about Cosair Cattle, R.D. and Scott Smith.

If memory serves, Shawn did most of the work for the Smiths, at least at the building Urban Pioneer moved into. Serious sweat equity.

[Spartan]

Crappy outdated apartment living in suburbia isn't for me or Spartan, but you don't hear us knocking it in a thread on urban development.

Are you implying that anyone in this forum speaks for more than just themselves? I especially love how you say "you don't hear us knocking it" immediately after you said "crappy outdated apartment living in suburbia." LOL

[Larry OKC]

Downtown/Urban living isn't for everyone, and clearly you're not one of those people. $550/mo is cheap for Oklahoma Larry, let alone anywhere else in the country. Just because it's not for you, don't knock it. Crappy outdated apartment living in suburbia isn't for me or Spartan, but you don't hear us knocking it in a thread on urban development.

Wasn't knocking it all. Would probably live downtown if my job was located there (am where I am because my former employer was about a mile away). Again, if Downtown living is that important to you, great, go for it. But the prices they are talking about getting for such little sf, I just don't see it.

[BoulderSooner]

Steve, I'll somewhat take that on. It probably appears insignificant to most people, but I remember that the Smiths (I dealt with the business partner Shawn), developed our building at 228 NE 2nd in Deep Deuce.

We were the first tenants in the old former hotel building and Shawn had the foresight to try to redevelop it into "mixed use". Having lived downtown for many years, it was probably the first downtown neighborhood "mixed-use" building that was extremely pedestrian oriented with multiple apartments overhead and sidewalks abound.

Granted, they did not renovate the building perfectly. There were noise issues and such. But the cheap rent allowed our creative company to thrive and enjoy a truly pedestrian lifestyle. In fact, you kindly wrote about it.

Now Sage occupies the space. and the restaurant owners also own the building. I think that it is safe to say that many other developers came by to look at the concept. The building was "flipped" three or four times. I had to do the yard work many months and deduct it from the rent because it was in such transition.

I will put the plug in that Corsair Cattle bought the buildings cheap, renovated them cheaply, and rented them cheaply.

If we had more reasonably priced rents downtown, and more true mixed-use buildings, downtown would be an even more exciting place to be. I think it took Shawn and his people some additional foresight and negotiating skills to pursue and acquire the Plaza Court building.

Some times "the slumlords" are exactly what you need to get creative/diverse tenants that can afford it and just fix the units up ourselves. We built out our interior by hand and enjoyed doing it. We payed a reasonable price and got exactly what we wanted, a real place in the neighborhood.

just a note they also developed the building at the corner of park and walker and i believe they still own it.

[brama]

In response to Stevens question about properties that Corsair has redeveloped.
I believe they did 1114 N Walker, and have owned it for almost 20 years. Also a really cool deep duece space. They also brought on line the old Garrison Funeral home, rented it out to a couple of law firms, later sold to Cafe do Brasil. Take a look at NW 7th and hudson corridor, not a bad start. I think they saved alot of the buildings in midtown and made them available for other developers to be able to get involved in the game. I applaud them rather than condemn them.

[okclee]

Looks like the Palo Duro II is almost complete.

Doesn't look as good as promised but not completely bad either, especially for section 8.

[MIKELS129]

Palo Duro II is not Section 8. It is special needs housing.

[BoulderSooner]

Palo Duro II is not Section 8. It is special needs housing.

it is sec 8 the HUD sec 8 sign was up for months ... now it may also be "special needs" but it is a variety of sec 8

[BoulderSooner]

just a note Stella is now open

[metro]

Thanks Boulder. I meant to ask does Stella have a website up yet?

[BoulderSooner]

they have twitter and facebook ... I don't think they have a website up yet

[Steve]

I am definitely looking forward to visiting Stella... cool design

[BG918]

I am definitely looking forward to visiting Stella... cool design

I went last night, it's awesome. Get the wood-fired pizza. Very modern interior, wish it didn't have that parking lot on Walker but otherwise a very nice addition to midtown. OKC has two stellar LOCAL Italian places downtown: Trattoria il Centro and now Stella.

[betts]

I ate there too and had one of their pizzas. It was delicious and very different from those at any of the other wood-fired pizza restaurants. Not that I don't like the others, but the variety is nice. The decor is great. The menu isn't terribly large, but our waitress said it would be expanding.

[Spartan]

The Red Cross building is no more as of last week. I wonder if they've had any interest from developers in that site.

[Larry OKC]

Could be, in this undated article (looks fairly recent, but building hadn't been torn down yet) Asbestos-Ridden American Red Cross Building Blocks Urban Redevelopment in Okalahoma City

[metro]

The Red Cross building is no more as of last week. I wonder if they've had any interest from developers in that site.

It was knocked down Friday, just 2 days ago.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Yay for more eternally-vacant lots in Midtown.