Post About Crosses on Buildings Downtown

[rcjunkie]

Aside from the personal attacks or being called dumb, the fact still remains.

If OKC wants to shed it's backwater image, I think this is a simple move that can make the city look less intimidating. And, I dont think we should get rid of both crosses - but I think maybe one is enough. ...

The other interesting thing, is the Cross is an Easter symbol (you know, Christ's death and resurrection) not a Christmas symbol (you know, Christ's birth). ... So, isn't it a bit oxymoronic to have crosses prominently displayed during December/Christmas?

Oh touche', I rest my case. The crosses are a symbol of CHRISTIANITY. Ah! Got it now. And this is my point, and I for one AM a Christian but dont thump or push my beliefs around on others - and therefore I have traveled and have friends from all parts of the world; not just OKC. ... Maybe has to do with the fact that I am more worldly and inclusive? you think.

And most cities do regulate lighting and signage on skyscrapers. If OKC doesn't then I stand corrected.

The Cross is a symbol of Faith/Christianity/Devotion, not Easter or Christmas.

[kevinpate]

For what it's worth, and assuming my memory is correct, the display lighting is not related to leaving regular office lights on at night and killing off other nearby lights. I believe the display results from special fixtures hung at specific windows. I don't recall whether the fixtures are installed and removed each winter or if the fixtures are permanently set. Seems like someone from within one the buildings posted on that a while back, but I simply do not recall.

[Caboose]

Are you sure you're atheist?

I have been to countries/cities that are atheist (and am in China right now) and there is not ONE prominent skyscraper anywhere with any religious symbol on it. Is there even any other city in America?

My point is, we should be more inclusive and dynamic as a city so that we embrace all and not force conservative beliefs on everyone - even in so called conservative territory (which OKC is actually becoming more and more liberal every day now - people just claim to be 'right').

I think you need to step back and really think about what point you are trying to make and start over. No one in OKC is stopping you or anyone else from expressing their religious freedom. For every building in OKC with a cross on it there are at least a thousand without a cross. Where did you get the idea that conservative beliefs are being forced on anyone via architecture?

[benman]

I think you need to step back and really think about what point you are trying to make and start over. No one in OKC is stopping you or anyone else from expressing their religious freedom. For every building in OKC with a cross on it there are at least a thousand without a cross. Where did you get the idea that conservative beliefs are being forced on anyone via architecture?

Great point. Apparently OKC is backwards and exclusive because we have two buildings with a cross on them for a few weeks out of the year....What about the other thousands that dont replace any religuous symbols? 2 out of a few thousand or so seems pretty inviting and inclusive to me. Of course everyone would rather find something to complain about and say we are "too conservative." Well, I can promise that if America went back to its traditional conservative values of the early 1900's or even the 1950's that America would be a much better place... We are all traveling down the wrong path and have lost sight of what is important. Believe it or not, Norman Rockwell paintings really did depict America at one time...

[metro]

Aside from the personal attacks or being called dumb, the fact still remains.

If OKC wants to shed it's backwater image, I think this is a simple move that can make the city look less intimidating. And, I dont think we should get rid of both crosses - but I think maybe one is enough. ...

The other interesting thing, is the Cross is an Easter symbol (you know, Christ's death and resurrection) not a Christmas symbol (you know, Christ's birth). ... So, isn't it a bit oxymoronic to have crosses prominently displayed during December/Christmas?

Oh touche', I rest my case. The crosses are a symbol of CHRISTIANITY. Ah! Got it now. And this is my point, and I for one AM a Christian but dont thump or push my beliefs around on others - and therefore I have traveled and have friends from all parts of the world; not just OKC. ... Maybe has to do with the fact that I am more worldly and inclusive? you think.

And most cities do regulate lighting and signage on skyscrapers. If OKC doesn't then I stand corrected.

Is it possible to be wordly and a true Christian?

1 John 2:15-17 TNIV

15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If you love the world, love for the Father [a] is not in you. 16 For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful people, the lust of their eyes and their boasting about what they have and do—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

[bluedogok]

For what it's worth, and assuming my memory is correct, the display lighting is not related to leaving regular office lights on at night and killing off other nearby lights. I believe the display results from special fixtures hung at specific windows. I don't recall whether the fixtures are installed and removed each winter or if the fixtures are permanently set. Seems like someone from within one the buildings posted on that a while back, but I simply do not recall.

They are permanently mounted, and in regards to cities controlling building lighting, those fixtures were installed long before building departments/plan reviewers things like energy conservation codes and dark sky ordinances were even a thought, let alone enforced. Not sure what codes OKC is under now (been away for 7 years) but most cities have just started adopting those codes, if someone tried to do them now they might have to face a review, but existing ones are most likely grandfathered in.

[fromdust]

.

If OKC wants to shed it's backwater image, I think this is a simple move that can make the city look less intimidating. And, I dont think we should get rid of both crosses - but I think maybe one is enough. ...

i like how christianity is viewed as backwater nowadays, and crosses on buildings are shoving religion down peoples throats. give me a friggn break.
while on the other hand we have public schools and universities handing out prayer rugs, and thats cool. its just getting ridiculous.

[OSUMom]

They are permanently mounted, and in regards to cities controlling building lighting, those fixtures were installed long before building departments/plan reviewers things like energy conservation codes and dark sky ordinances were even a thought, let alone enforced. Not sure what codes OKC is under now (been away for 7 years) but most cities have just started adopting those codes, if someone tried to do them now they might have to face a review, but existing ones are most likely grandfathered in.

And if my memory is correct, seems like it first started out as just turning on certain lights and having the others dark. I'm sure that got to be too much hassle every year. Would take just one tenant to ruin the effect. But I could be mistaken, that was a long time ago when I think it was that way.

[PennyQuilts]

I just moved home from being back east for ten years. I worked with kids and teens for most of that time. In the whole time I was there, I never heard one single, solitary disparaging remark about Christianity except for a muslim father in one of my custody cases and even he was respectful. The kids I worked with were frequently involved in church but many weren't. The whole discussion of church wasn't really on the radar.

Here in the bible belt, there are several churches per block and it is a big deal. Back east, people really are live and let live on the subject. I think they believe it would be rude and decidedly weird to make a judgment on someone else's faith. All this christianity bashing strikes me as frickin bizarre.

If there is anyone being backwoods about it, it is this strange need to criticise the personal faith of others. I can understand getting aggravated if a Christian tried to get into my business. But I haven't seen much of that and simply telling someone you aren't interested seems like the appropriate and rational response. What I HAVE seen is some people all excited about attacking other people's faith. It is kind of creepy. I guess it is a product of being in the bible belt where you gotta rebel against something and that is something that people hold near and dear - so it becomes a target.

[ljbab728]

I have been to countries/cities that are atheist (and am in China right now) and there is not ONE prominent skyscraper anywhere with any religious symbol on it. Is there even any other city in America?

My point is, we should be more inclusive and dynamic as a city so that we embrace all and not force conservative beliefs on everyone - even in so called conservative territory (which OKC is actually becoming more and more liberal every day now - people just claim to be 'right').

Hot Rod, it's not likely that you'll be finding any religious symbols on building in China anytime soon and that's because the government would crack down on that. Try bringing bibles into China to distribute. If you think that is a model to follow, I strongly disagree. You equate conservatism with religion and in some cases that may be true but I am a lifelong liberal and a Baptist. You can't just make general statements like that. The crosses on the buildings at Christmas just give me a warm fuzzy feeling and I never think about liberal versus conservative when I look at them.

[mburlison]

I have heard many compliment the crosses and wish 'their' city did something similar. I think its cool to come through OKC in the Christmas season and see those lights on. "Freedom of" does not equate to "Freedom from", the words Separation, State and Church are never found anywhere in the constitution together. The tail has wagged the dog long enough lately.