Polish president likely killed in plane crash

[venture]

Polish president likely killed in plane crash - CNN.com

(CNN) -- Polish President Lech Kaczynski was likely killed early Saturday when the plane he was traveling in with his wife crashed at a western Russian airport, a spokesman for Poland's Foreign Ministry told CNN.
"It's probably that all people on board were killed," said Piotr Paszkowski.
The plane was approaching the airport at Smolensk, Russia, and probably hit some trees at the end of the runway, Paszkowski said.
"It caught fire, the fire has now been extinguished, but the extent of the damage is such that it's unlikely anybody on board survived," he said.
Kaczynski was 60.

[gmwise]

This makes me wonder if this was an assassination.
(During WW2, the Soviets exterminated the Polish Government,and its military officer corps)
It would not be the 1st.
The presidents of Rwanda and Burundi were killed when their plane was fired on as it was landing at Kigali, the capital of Rwanda, according to reports from that Central African country and the United Nations.
Presidents Juvenal Habyarimana, 57, of Rwanda and
Cyprien Ntaryamira, 39, of neighboring Burundi
Jaime Roldós Aguilera (1940-1981) was President of Ecuador
General Torrijos of Panama, just three months after Ecuadorian president Jaime Roldós died in strikingly similar circumstances.
Now statistically speaking it was bound to happen.
But sometimes things like this, is just accidents.
Makes one wonder though....

[ronronnie1]

Anti-gay bigot Polish President Lech Kaczynski goes *SPLAT!* Karma's a bitchski.

...moving right along.

[Peach fuzz]

you didnt hear it from me but I was told US officials are investigation and we might see some kind of release in the near future... my source's strong opinion is that this may lead to very bad things... not trying to spread things but this is seriously what I've heard from a 'birdie'... I just hope they arent this crazy and stupid and this is just a tragedy because I want to see the world some day

[stick47]

The plane came in too low and hit some trees on the 4th attempt at landing. Under the circumstances I doubt there was any kind of assassination plot involved with the crash.

[Peach fuzz]

Thats what I thought but you really never know... just hope that's the case even though it's a horrible tragedy

[LeethalDose]

Karma's a bitchski indeed.

The Polish government and the National Bank of Poland, in a “rare moment of unity,” agree to weaken Poland’s currency, the zloty, in an act that would benefit Poland’s exporters at the expense of Poland’s trading partners—that is, the European Union, among others. Then, the next day, Poland’s president and the president of its national bank die in a plane crash.

source

[PennyQuilts]

It amazes me that they had so many big-wigs on one plane in the first place. I think all of us are skeptical that it was an accident. And now, you have to wonder what will happen with the power vacuum.

[gmwise]

I really "hope" this is a accident.
(Poland is a member of NATO, and of the EU.)
BUT a healthy dose of wait and see, and if God willingly the US is invited to investigate it.
Then maybe we can get some unbiased answers.

[mugofbeer]

It amazes me that they had so many big-wigs on one plane in the first place. I think all of us are skeptical that it was an accident. And now, you have to wonder what will happen with the power vacuum.

Most major corporations have policies in place limiting the number of executives that can be on the same plane. I bet no country makes this mistake ever again.

[gmwise]

Most major corporations have policies in place limiting the number of executives that can be on the same plane. I bet no country makes this mistake ever again.

You would think...
I am with PQ, it just seems either just a stupid accident with SO many top dignitaries on this flight.
But with that many, and the fact there was some political drama that had just happen.

[Shake2005]

It amazes me that they had so many big-wigs on one plane in the first place. I think all of us are skeptical that it was an accident. And now, you have to wonder what will happen with the power vacuum.

The power vacuum isn't that large in reality. The country is actually run by the Prime Minister, who was NOT on the place. the Presidency is largely ceremonial.

but, this being the interwebs, let's please get back to how the commie's are behind this and work hard to figure a way for this to be Obama's fault.

[PennyQuilts]

The power vacuum isn't that large in reality. The country is actually run by the Prime Minister, who was NOT on the place. the Presidency is largely ceremonial.

but, this being the interwebs, let's please get back to how the commie's are behind this and work hard to figure a way for this to be Obama's fault.

Wow. That was called for. You brought up Obama in relation to this tragedy?

And you do realize that there were many, many other leaders on the plane, right?

From the original link:

Other Polish officials killed in the crash include Aleksander Szczyglo, the head of the National Security Office; Jerzy Szmajdzinski, the deputy parliament speaker; Andrzej Kremer, the deputy foreign minister; and Gen. Franciszek Gagor, the army chief of staff, according to Kaczynski's Law and Justice Party.

The party also said that Slawomir Skrzypek, head of the National Bank of Poland, was killed.

"The entire top military brass, including the chief of defense and all the services, were on the plane," Valasek said. "You're looking at a situation, in effect, of the decapitation of the military services."

From other articles, the ones who died included: the army chief of staff, the navy chief commander, and heads of the air and land forces, the national bank president, the deputy foreign minister, the army chaplain, the head of the National Security Office, the deputy parliament speaker, the Olympic Committee head and at least two presidential aides and 17 lawmakers.

[sgt. pepper]

figure a way for this to be Obama's fault.

no no no.....it is George W. Bushes fault, how quickly we forget.

[gmwise]

Wow. That was called for. You brought up Obama in relation to this tragedy?

And you do realize that there were many, many other leaders on the plane, right?

From the original link:



From other articles, the ones who died included: the army chief of staff, the navy chief commander, and heads of the air and land forces, the national bank president, the deputy foreign minister, the army chaplain, the head of the National Security Office, the deputy parliament speaker, the Olympic Committee head and at least two presidential aides and 17 lawmakers.

See the fact, so many high ranking officials was killed makes me suspicious of the "event/accident".
I am in the wait and see ,but blaming the pilot seems to be VERY quick.
And admittedly, the fact that Putin is head of the investigation makes me leary.

[PennyQuilts]

See the fact, so many high ranking officials was killed makes me suspicious of the "event/accident".
I am in the wait and see ,but blaming the pilot seems to be VERY quick.
And admittedly, the fact that Putin is head of the investigation makes me leary.

My husband is in the business of aviation accident investigation. No one has been calling to ask them to look into it or if they have, it has been completely in blackout. This is highly unusual.

[mugofbeer]

Why would the Russians call the US? It happened on Russian soil and they have their own capable people and from the radio chatter that has been broadcast, it looks like it was a horrible error - I don't see any evidence of any conspiracy.

[gmwise]

Why would the Russians call the US? It happened on Russian soil and they have their own capable people and from the radio chatter that has been broadcast, it looks like it was a horrible error - I don't see any evidence of any conspiracy.

Poland is a Nato Ally.
And for the past sakes, they may not WANT to accept just the Russians explanation.
And that was the presidential airplane.
So for a diplomacy technicality speaking Polish territory.

also there's this.
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,1425561,00.html

[mugofbeer]

Poland is a Nato Ally.
And for the past sakes, they may not WANT to accept just the Russians explanation.
And that was the presidential airplane.
So for a diplomacy technicality speaking Polish territory.

also there's this.
Yushchenko Poisoned, Doctors Say | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 12.12.2004

Understandable point, but the crash occurred in Russia and the entire event was supposed to be a healing/apology/recognition of mistake event that the Russians organized. Even if the Poles wanted an outside investigation, I don't know if the Russians would see it as anything but a slap in the face and a major diplomatic rift.

[gmwise]

True.
But I'm almost sure a few US intelligence assets was watching or listening.
And will be discreetly made available to the Poles.

[mugofbeer]

Oh, you know it.

[PennyQuilts]

Why would the Russians call the US? It happened on Russian soil and they have their own capable people and from the radio chatter that has been broadcast, it looks like it was a horrible error - I don't see any evidence of any conspiracy.

The NTSB regularly goes overseas to help out in investigations, when asked - even countries like Spain, France, Thailand, Poland, etc. They aren't the lead agency but frequently are involved, particularly if the type of aircraft is used in the US. I haven't checked but this one probably is not one we use around here so that could also be a reason the NTSB hasn't been actively providing aide. They also wouldn't touch something that looked like a crime.

[mugofbeer]

The NTSB regularly goes overseas to help out in investigations, when asked - even countries like Spain, France, Thailand, Poland, etc. They aren't the lead agency but frequently are involved, particularly if the type of aircraft is used in the US. I haven't checked but this one probably is not one we use around here so that could also be a reason the NTSB hasn't been actively providing aide. They also wouldn't touch something that looked like a crime.

Sure, and they have very highly trained experts. But Russia, I bet, would see them as an admission to their own weakness and lack of expertise. Russians would be very reluctant to do something like this.

[PennyQuilts]

Sure, and they have very highly trained experts. But Russia, I bet, would see them as an admission to their own weakness and lack of expertise. Russians would be very reluctant to do something like this.

No question - and our people would be hesitant to go! In fact, if they started talking like that, my husband would be grounded to his room and if I had to get his dad to back me up, so be it.

[gmwise]

The NTSB regularly goes overseas to help out in investigations, when asked - even countries like Spain, France, Thailand, Poland, etc. They aren't the lead agency but frequently are involved, particularly if the type of aircraft is used in the US. I haven't checked but this one probably is not one we use around here so that could also be a reason the NTSB hasn't been actively providing aide. They also wouldn't touch something that looked like a crime.

the list includes, I "think" any aircraft used by any airline in the US, or manufactured by a US firm, or foreign carrier which flies in US airspace...