Again, Tulsa gets the first store

[Spartan]

It is really surprising how attractive pretty much any development that goes up in Tulsa is. In the OKC metro we just don't get the same long-term quality. I'm not sure why. I just don't believe that the issue is building codes.

Well I think we can talk all day about how OKC's land run spirit has led to Devon, MAPS, Bricktown, and all this great stuff that we just went out and created.

I think out in the suburbs you see incredible evidence of the land run spirit's downside.. that's the only thing I can think of. Tulsa doesn't quite have the same land run spirit.

[z28james]

Thanks for the comments Jethrol I am not surprised you built something, we really get a lot of adults, and when I say adults I mean 40-50's that come in and buy stuff for themselves, its fun to see. I am glad its something everyone can enjoy.

I would agree with the the mall, I never shopped there because I live in Norman, but it is amazing how quickly its changed, I think once they can get rid of some of the mom and pop stores still hanging around they will bring more of high end national chains that our community deserves. Only problem is that those mom and pop stores can still rake in some dough there so they may be around awhile.

[beedell]

Jethrol has the right attitude! I am excited about what I've seen about CC so far, especially because so much of it is local. We can lament that we have no Utica Square, but a lot of that development contains chain stores that I could live without.

Separately, I have spent hundreds if not thousands in a certain store selling plastic blocks.

[progressiveboy]

Doesn't the Chamber employ someone whose job it is to recruit retailers to OKC? If not, they need to hire one. If so, someone needs to do a better job.

Tulsa is hurting economically right now, much more so than OKC. Plus, OKC is a bigger city.

I think what may skew our stats is that so many of Tulsa's uber-rich live in the Midtown area, whereas ours live in Nichols Hills and Edmond.

Sprawl hurts us in this regard, IMO.

Keep in mind that in OKC there are also other high end affluent wealthy folks such as Gallardia and Lake Aluma, Heritage Hills etc... not just NH and Edmond.

[warreng88]

Utica Square scores Anthropologie store

By KYLE ARNOLD World Staff

Anthropologie, an upscale women's retailer, is coming to Utica Square.

Officials of the shopping center have been working for months on the deal and received a signed lease Friday, said Jessica Judd, a property manager for Helmerich & Payne Inc., which owns the property.

"We're so excited about Anthropologie joining the Utica Square family," Judd said. "We can't convey how proud we are for them to have picked us."

The store will be located in a 7,500-square-foot space formerly occupied by Harold's, next to Pottery Barn. It is expected to open this fall.

The Utica Square location will be the first store in Oklahoma for Anthropologie, a subsidiary of Philadelphia-based Urban Outfitters Inc., which owns retailers Urban Outfitters and Free People.

Anthropologie sells clothing and accessories, catering to women 30 to 45, according to the company's Web site. It also carries some home furnishings, gifts and decor.

The retailer has been working on hiring a staff for the Tulsa store and conducted interviews this week for management positions, according to job postings on its Web site. Anthropologie officials did not return phone calls to the Tulsa World this week.

Harold's, an apparel retailer from Norman, closed its Utica Square store when the 60-year-old company filed for bankruptcy in 2008.

Tulsa World: Utica Square scores Anthropologie store

[rcjunkie]

Tulsa gets the first store---BFD, someone has to be first!!!!!!

[Easy180]

Utica Square scores Anthropologie store

By KYLE ARNOLD World Staff

Anthropologie, an upscale women's retailer, is coming to Utica Square.

Officials of the shopping center have been working for months on the deal and received a signed lease Friday, said Jessica Judd, a property manager for Helmerich & Payne Inc., which owns the property.

"We're so excited about Anthropologie joining the Utica Square family," Judd said. "We can't convey how proud we are for them to have picked us."

The store will be located in a 7,500-square-foot space formerly occupied by Harold's, next to Pottery Barn. It is expected to open this fall.

The Utica Square location will be the first store in Oklahoma for Anthropologie, a subsidiary of Philadelphia-based Urban Outfitters Inc., which owns retailers Urban Outfitters and Free People.

Anthropologie sells clothing and accessories, catering to women 30 to 45, according to the company's Web site. It also carries some home furnishings, gifts and decor.

The retailer has been working on hiring a staff for the Tulsa store and conducted interviews this week for management positions, according to job postings on its Web site. Anthropologie officials did not return phone calls to the Tulsa World this week.

Harold's, an apparel retailer from Norman, closed its Utica Square store when the 60-year-old company filed for bankruptcy in 2008.

Tulsa World: Utica Square scores Anthropologie store

Sounds like something my wife would like...Glad it is in Tulsa

[Laramie]

Not really uncommon...seems Tulsa gets the stores first (for whatever reason) and then OKC a few years later

If it will work in Tulsa, then it should work in Oklahoma City. I'm still looking forward to Sak's Fifth Avenue coming.

[onthestrip]

Saks Fifth Avenue is not coming to OKC

Its not a big deal Anthropologie opened in Tulsa first. They have a quality shopping center for it to locate. We, OKC, just dont have that many quality centers that are desirable for certain national retailers. Outside of Penn Square the options are limited for them.

[okcpulse]

Saks Fifth Avenue is not coming to OKC

Its not a big deal Anthropologie opened in Tulsa first. They have a quality shopping center for it to locate. We, OKC, just dont have that many quality centers that are desirable for certain national retailers. Outside of Penn Square the options are limited for them.

How many other quality shopping centers are there in Tulsa? In OKC, you guys are forgetting about Tuscana, although I do admit it is not finished. Then there is Classen Curve, and University Towne Center in Norman, which is being built in phases.

What Penn needs to do is expand their retail space and build another parking garage, since it will involve tearing out a chunk of surface parking.

Old tricks are the best tricks.

[scootinger]

In OKC, you guys are forgetting about Tuscana, although I do admit it is not finished.

Not finished? More like not even started.

I don't think that Urban Outfitters and Saks Fifth Avenue are interested in opening stores on a dirt farm.

[Spartan]

Well said. More people in OKC need to get off cloud nine and start being more critical of their own city.. there needs to be a "nobody insults my city but me" mentality.

[Dustin]

NewsOK Makes sense..

[venture]

Good story by Steve and definitely helps answer a lot of questions people have here. Seems like it is coming down to they see this big sprawling city, but don't realize commute times are really short. However, de-annexing property isn't going to fix that part, since people are already establishing (living) in various areas.

I also was interested in the part on how much leakage there is when it comes to retail clothing sales. Unfortunately there isn't much that can be done there now. The majority of people can shop at the same stores that are in OKC in the burbs and Norman. If they want something unique, they go to Tulsa or Dallas. There really isn't a huge need for people not in OKC to drive there to shop. If they can't get it close to home, they will go to Tulsa or Dallas to get it...not OKC.

Seems that it is going to boil down to re-educating the retailers on the city and retraining shoppers. Neither is going to happen very fast so we need to focus on those things and stop with this day dreaming of what if. Not to mention the bitterness of "OMG TULSA GOT IT AGAIN" stuff.

[HOT ROD]

you know, Seattle doesn't have much high end stores either.

we're the home for Nordstrom (so in my book they dont count), but until just last year - the whole Seattle area had NOTHING larger than it. To me, Nordstrom isn't high end because they are located in just about every mall in the puget sound area. However, i do see where other cities covet them.

That being said, the Seattle area just now (beginning of this year) got a Neiman Marcus and it was Microsoft that delivered it - in downtown Bellevue. Portland, has had a Saks Fifth Avenue and other big end retailers for decades.

Dare I say that OKC and Seattle have some similarities in this regard? Why is Seattle not swimming in every high end retailer or international retailer? Vancouver is a natural competitor but Portland? yep, theres much more high end down there.

Maybe OKC should follow Portland's model and get rid of the sales tax. But it would still probably only benefit Tulsa since it seems to be retailers "IT" city for Oklahoma.

Maybe OKC could make it much more difficult for OKC people to get to Tulsa. haha

[okcpulse]

Not finished? More like not even started.

I don't think that Urban Outfitters and Saks Fifth Avenue are interested in opening stores on a dirt farm.

I spoke to the owners last winter. It is still on schedule, and is a multi-phased, master planned development. Although the residential will come first, then the retail.

[okcpulse]

I also was interested in the part on how much leakage there is when it comes to retail clothing sales. Unfortunately there isn't much that can be done there now. The majority of people can shop at the same stores that are in OKC in the burbs and Norman. If they want something unique, they go to Tulsa or Dallas. There really isn't a huge need for people not in OKC to drive there to shop. If they can't get it close to home, they will go to Tulsa or Dallas to get it...not OKC.

I'd like to know what kind of idiot would use leakage as a reason to not open a store in a certain city. So everyone in OKC goes to Dallas for the unique stores. If I owned a retail store in Dallas, and found out a large chunk of my clients came from OKC, common sense would tell me that opening a store there would work. Simple economics. But since retailers use these anal, tunnel-vision formulas, we get the shaft.

It's a joke if you ask me. We're losing tax dollars to other cities over this crap.

[HOT ROD]

That's a good point, Pulse.

Can we impress this upon the OKC leadership and have them make a stand to retailers?

If OKC is going to other cities in such large numbers, then YES - a store in OKC would be an instant hit. ...

But I do agree (also) that we need appropriate development and for that we need somebody local to STEP IT UP! I think, if we have the development - then we could make the argument and get at least somebody in here to 'try-out' the market. Once it is shown successful, there shouldn't be any more PROBLEMS getting retail into OKC.

But we need to play our hand successfully, and right now we just dont have anything to even attract a high end store; Classen Curve, NHP, or Tuscany just dont cut it.

I do also agree about supporting local, but most major cities have a nice spectrum from which to chose from and thus - OKC, being the newest Tier 2 city; needs to really go out and battle these retail conceptions with the following focus:
1) educate people about OKC's size and scope (as in the entire state and most of the region being OKC's catchment - the NBA knows this already. ....)
2) educate stupid OKC developers that OKC needs some PRIME real estate development in place if we EVER want to land some top end stores
3) educate the media and advertisers to promote OKC-local stores so that we can grow organically while also spreading the wealth of OKC WITHIN OKC
4) the city leaders need to use OKC's own spending habits as a positive; if OKC people travel to these cities for high-end stores; then surely said stores would do well if they were in OKC in these new developments I speak of in step 2.
5) the city needs to continue to do what it can to get it's name out there with the big boys. We need to keep doing well with the NBA and go after some big time conventions. We need to complete all of the projects we have in place and do it well -

All of this, so that people will NO LONGER have any excuse of overlooking or avoiding OKC. Again, this is a process that OKC needs to initiate and we need all of the city leadership on board, just like we did with MAPS. In effect, this would be a MAPS for Retail - that wouldn't even cost the taxpayers anything as it would use most of the current revenue stream for the Chamber and CVB to get OKC on people's radar, and city leadership to get the aformentioned points going.

5 years from now, needs to be the goal. and not just so OKC can have what Tulsa has; but OKC has what the rest of the state and region outside of possibly dfw doesn't. Again, I give you Seattle as an example - Microsoft had to do the EXACT same thing I am mentioning to get the Seattle area our first TRUE high end retailer - in Neiman Marcus. and this was just the start of this year - 2010. .... (Microsoft [development] ALSO got Seattle a Whole Foods store, in South Lake Union in 2009).

OKC needs to make even more impressive moves and there needs to be a partnership where people involved are doing it not JUST for the profit margins but also for the overall improvement of OKC as a brand. In the long run - it will be worth the risk of letting go egos and self orientated motives; when OKC has the retail options that match it's major league status.

Im not buying all of that 2.5M crap that was in the paper, there are much smaller cities than that (and smaller than OKC) who have high end shoppes. Again, just like the NBA has shown; the middle of the country is a hidden gold mine - and OKC is the best place to tap that market. With Tulsa, you just have their small market and spill-over from OKC. But with OKC, you have a true regional catchment plus a larger base city to start with.

Like I said, OKC needs to step it up (with development) to make it even possible, but if we bring it - we can turn retailer's own 'assessments' of OKC against them and use their own arguments as points in OKC's favor. But all of the power plays we could say will not mean a hill of beans unless we deliver the place to put it; we need several quality developments and not all just scattered on the fringe.

[mugofbeer]

There is another aspect to the issue that Steve can't/won't discuss because it involves his own employer. I face-to-face asked the man in charge of setting office locations for my ex-employer why they hadn't opened an office here when it was by far the largest city in the US without a local presence. He told me flat-out that, per capita, OKC is significantly more expensive to advertise in by newspaper than any other major city in the country.

My ex employer has offices in most every major American city. Many of their offices are in much smaller communities than OKC because of concentrations of wealth. This was about 10 years ago so it may have changed some but I would imagine it hasn't changed that much. This company does advertise significantly by newspaper and other media types but probably not enough to warrant huge discounts I know the Oklahoman offers. However, when they do it is designed to catch your eye by being half to full page adds, etc.

Try checking the Dallas Morning News and the Oklahoman on the same day. You will see advertisements by national chains that may be full to multi-page adds in the DMN but are only half to 1/4 page adds here.

Steve's article just verifies what I think we have discussed in this thread previously and basically already know. I believe that there are some inaccuracies in the data many of these retailers go by, however. For example, there is a chicken-or-the-egg aspect. Why do OKCitians go elsewhere to buy certain things? IMO, Part of the reason is that we have gone on shopping trips to Dallas for a long time - as has already been stated. OU-TEXAS weekend is a good case in point. Also, OKCitians go elsewhere to shop BECAUSE these retailers aren't here. If they were, we would shop at them HERE! Finally, when shopping for large ticket items such as furniture, stores in Dallas will ship here with no sales tax. That can be a significant savings factor.

[NickFiggins]

I think a major factor is just the proximity of OKC to one of the major retail centers of the world in DFW, when it is a 6hr round trip by car vs a 10hr round trip from Tulsa, it makes a big difference. People in OKC are more likely to visit DFW on a regular basis, thus reducing the need for additional stores.

I must also support the notion of the concentration of retail in Tulsa. In Tulsa it is either Utica or 71st Street. In OKC you have it much more spread out, as well as the wealth. Edmond and Norman are on opposite ends of the metro with similar wealth. I feel a lot of it has to do with land values, in Tulsa due to the infrequent bridges over the river, and hills there are natural boundaries that facilitate density, in OKC its all about sprawl.

[Steve]

Mug, I'm not here to be an apologist, defender, etc. for The Oklahoman. But good lord people, I could only wish newspapers had this sort of influence in this new media age. Even if what you're saying was once true, I seriously doubt it's true now. Of course, you can easily call up the various newspaper ad offices and get rates for yourself.
I'm not going to get caught up in a flame war on this particular issue, and The Oklahoman, like any other business or newspaper, likely has things people can take issue with. But sometimes it just gets ridiculous... A proper comp is not DMN and The Oklahoman. It's The Oklahoman and Tulsa World. And I do not see Whole Foods advertising day to day in the Tulsa World, nor do I see Saks Fifth Avenue in there.

[mugofbeer]

I recognize the newspaper industry has changed a lot in the last few years and I don't want to argue the point either. My former employer is a trillion $ + asset management company and when I hear it directly from the horses mouth that the DOK's advertising rates are, per capita, siginificantly higher than others, and thats the reason they don't put an office here, I have to believe him and I have to believe it is (or has been) a contributing factor for other companies.

I am not saying DOK add rates are the sole reason chains haven't located here, but it has contributed along with other issues. Just like I think some of the data you cite in your article that these retailers are going by are old or misleading or they aren't putting them in proper light, perception is reality.

Now in fairness, my ex-employer IS apparently going to open that office here soon because of some communications I have had and, obviously, newspaper advertising is not as essential as it used to be, but it probably delayed their presence here 15 years. It's small potatoes in the broad scheme of things but its an example.

Please understand, I'm not blaming you - truth be known, you have my dream job.

[Laramie]

What's really sad about this situation is that Oklahoma Cityans will have an option to spend their money in Texas (Dallas) or keep it home Oklahoma (Tulsa). Which is the lesser of two evils?

Well, Oklahomans have been traveling to Dallas for decades spending money and fattening up the Metroplex (Dallas-Fort Worth) economy and now it looks as though it's coming back to haunt us.

"
Oklahoman:

But two retail experts who visited Oklahoma City last week revealed some reasons why some stores are saying "no” to the state’s largest city while saying "yes” to smaller cities like Tulsa, Birmingham, Ala., and Louisville, Ky.

As senior editor at Chain Store Age Magazine, Katherine Field talks to executives of the country’s leading retailers. August Partners consultant David Lobaugh, meanwhile, has 30 years’ experience conducting surveys and research for retailers worldwide.

Both were asked by the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber to look at why Oklahoma City is falling short in luring big name high-end retailers.

Their conclusion: Oklahoma City isn’t going to lure some of the top names any time soon, and the problem is neither population nor income."

Link: NewsOK

# # #



So, I'll start spending my money in Oklahoma (Tulsa) when the economy gets better and I can afford an upscale store. Meanwhile, "Wal-Mart Fall-Apart" will have to do for now.

Check the thrift stores out you would be surprised what you might find there in the rough!

[Steve]

I know, I'm not taking it personally. But sometimes - especially when I hear E.L. Gaylord, dead since 2003, being blamed for everything that ails this city and state, I just cringe. Again, I must emphasize, I'm not about to say things are perfect. I'm also not foolish enough to start detailing my home's flaws if you get my drift. But maybe it's time to delve a bit deeper into what's at play here instead of going to the old standby of "blame the dark tower."

[Steve]

Mug, I do also think you may be on to something in terms of "habit." Oklahomans still go to West End in Dallas whereas hardly anybody else does (it was abandoned by Dallas locals several years ago).