Rheas (Rays) on N. May: THUG Magnet

[OKCisOK4me]

I dont even know where to start....But until something illegal happens they arent going to do anything about it. This really is no different than a 'white' (country music or dance ) club, people stick around after it closes, blast music, people talk loudly, guys try to show of their car/truck, and take home girls.

I haven't been in awhile but ive been to club rodeo here or caravan co. in tulsa and ive seen people hang around till 3am
- blasting music
-fights break out numerous times
- beer being consumed
- beer bottles thrown at vehicles
-etc......
How is that different than what these people are doing, well besides that their black....

So of course the cops are going to back down when they constantly sit outside of a 'black' club when nothing major has happened in a long period of time. Would you like to go to your favorite hangout place to have police helicopters fly over and cops treating you like you've done something wrong when you havent ?

The massive conspiracy that your searching for is that its illegal and a waste of police resources to swarm a place just because the partrons arent the same color, culture, or lifestyle as some of the neighborhood people.

And do thefts of vehicles spike up around those country music club environments when those hot and rowdy nights take place? No, I don't think so... You should know that there's a difference between the elements of thug and redneck...

[bradzilla]

And do thefts of vehicles spike up around those country music club environments when those hot and rowdy nights take place? No, I don't think so... You should know that there's a difference between the elements of thug and redneck...

When has there been and post about the neighbors having their cars stolen, I read the entire thread and all that i picked up was people playing music, being loud, and neighbors feeling intimidated?

Looks like your searching for some justification, maybe you will find what your looking for when you stop being a baseless bigot and go to church.

[MikeOKC]

I dont even know where to start....But until something illegal happens they arent going to do anything about it. This really is no different than a 'white' (country music or dance ) club, people stick around after it closes, blast music, people talk loudly, guys try to show of their car/truck, and take home girls.

I haven't been in awhile but ive been to club rodeo here or caravan co. in tulsa and ive seen people hang around till 3am
- blasting music
-fights break out numerous times
- beer being consumed
- beer bottles thrown at vehicles
-etc......
How is that different than what these people are doing, well besides that their black....

So of course the cops are going to back down when they constantly sit outside of a 'black' club when nothing major has happened in a long period of time. Would you like to go to your favorite hangout place to have police helicopters fly over and cops treating you like you've done something wrong when you havent ?

The massive conspiracy that your searching for is that its illegal and a waste of police resources to swarm a place just because the partrons arent the same color, culture, or lifestyle as some of the neighborhood people.

Bradzilla, You come to this conversation with an experience which you detailed here which shows a prejudice against the police trying to do something about things like this.

Interesting you put 'black' in quotes. I knew then that a cultural lefty (and I used to be one) was coming to bash my thoughts. It IS a black club - no need for quotes.

It's obvious you haven't a clue the difference between the cultures at these clubs. Ask the police how often they are called, "racist pigs," at a country & western club. No doubt they can be loud and obnoxious, that's just the nature of nightclubs and alcohol. I've spent enough time in them earlier in my life to know that. However, I have never seen the kind of stuff go on that goes on at Ray's. No place.

It's clear you want to bring racism from the police into the discussion. Well, hang out and listen to the way the black punks talk in the parking lot. "White boy", "Cracker pigs", and "racist" every other word. It's truly disgusting. If black cops were being talked to like that with the 'N' word (I'll be politically correct for you) at a C&W club it would make the front pages, the late night TV news, and it wouldn't happen more than once. We both know that.

You have no idea what we put up with to the east and west of this place. Come on over some Friday night. If the club was C&W and the same stuff was going on, I'd be just as angry. But it isn't.

Your last comments made me sick. If you let this crap go on here at 59th and N. May, it will soon spread to other places. It's obvious you're just fine with Detroit-like activity in white neighborhoods in Oklahoma City. Some of us like OKC being OKC and without the ghetto clubs that bring crime, lack of civility, noise and general thuggery to otherwise quite neighborhoods.

P.S...Your "baseless bigot" comment to OKCisOK4Me was totally uncalled for. Makes me wonder if you hangout at Ray's.

[OKCisOK4me]

When has there been and post about the neighbors having their cars stolen, I read the entire thread and all that i picked up was people playing music, being loud, and neighbors feeling intimidated?

Looks like your searching for some justification, maybe you will find what your looking for when you stop being a baseless bigot and go to church.

I live within a block of the club. I have plenty of justification. It'll get worse when it starts getting warmer cause they'll creep through with their windows rolled down scoping cars to break into. I don't think that my going or not going to church has anything to do with how you're trying to justify the situation...

Oh, and thanks for the backup MikeOKC

[bradzilla]

Bradzilla, You come to this conversation with an experience which you detailed here which shows a prejudice against the police trying to do something about things like this.

Interesting you put 'black' in quotes. I knew then that a cultural lefty (and I used to be one) was coming to bash my thoughts. It IS a black club - no need for quotes.

It's obvious you haven't a clue the difference between the cultures at these clubs. Ask the police how often they are called, "racist pigs," at a country & western club. No doubt they can be loud and obnoxious, that's just the nature of nightclubs and alcohol. I've spent enough time in them earlier in my life to know that. However, I have never seen the kind of stuff go on that goes on at Ray's. No place.

It's clear you want to bring racism from the police into the discussion. Well, hang out and listen to the way the black punks talk in the parking lot. "White boy", "Cracker pigs", and "racist" every other word. It's truly disgusting. If black cops were being talked to like that with the 'N' word (I'll be politically correct for you) at a C&W club it would make the front pages, the late night TV news, and it wouldn't happen more than once. We both know that.

You have no idea what we put up with to the east and west of this place. Come on over some Friday night. If the club was C&W and the same stuff was going on, I'd be just as angry. But it isn't.

Your last comments made me sick. If you let this crap go on here at 59th and N. May, it will soon spread to other places. It's obvious you're just fine with Detroit-like activity in white neighborhoods in Oklahoma City. Some of us like OKC being OKC and without the ghetto clubs that bring crime, lack of civility, noise and general thuggery to otherwise quite neighborhoods.

P.S...Your "baseless bigot" comment to OKCisOK4Me was totally uncalled for. Makes me wonder if you hangout at Ray's.

Personal attacks on me is all fine and good but you arent actually addressing the problem, what exactly has any of the people at the club done to you or your property?

Thanks for posting the link to my previous post - It does display my conservative nature to not WASTE public funds on trivial things, while you obviously like wasting tax payer money.

[MikeOKC]

That's all fine and good but you arent addressing the problem, what exactly has any of the people at the club done to you or your property?

What? You're the one who basically said there wasn't a problem. I live in Condos a few blocks to the west. I haven't personally been touched except by the rumbling bass of their music as they idle in the parking lot, scream and yell, fly out at 70mph to flee from a cop who approached them on foot, you hear all this at 2 AM, you know? (Not to mention the "There goes the neighborhood" aspect to it all.) The fact is, my car doesn't have to be broken into before I become concerned. Bradzilla, a hypothetical example of why your question to me is nonsense...if a group of thugs robbed neighbors at gunpoint on either side of you, would you be concerned? I could always ask (to quote you): "What exactly has any of the people at the club done to you or your property?" See? It doesn't work that way.

And what does, "That's all fine and good," mean? That's all you had to say about my response to you?

"Trivial" is in the eye of the beholder, my friend.

[bradzilla]

-I haven't personally been touched except by the rumbling bass of their music as they idle in the parking lot, scream and yell, fly out at 70mph to flee from a cop who approached them on foot, you hear all this at 2 AM, you know? (Not to mention the "There goes the neighborhood" aspect to it all.)

-And what does, "That's all fine and good," mean? That's all you had to say about my response to you?

-Exactly. So in other words no one from that group has done anything illegal to you or your neighbors, well besides being black.

-Its a waste of time to respond and its isnt going to go anywhere, this thread is about your neighborhood and the club. Not me.


If you had the money you could move out to Edmond and become my neighbor, unless you're poor. If that's the case then I don't want you anywhere near where I live, you know - the whole there goes the neighborhood aspect to it and all.

[MikeOKC]

-Exactly. So in other words no one from that group has done anything illegal to you or your neighbors, well besides being black.

-Its a waste of time to respond and its isnt going to go anywhere, this thread is about your neighborhood and the club. Not me.


If you had the money you could move out to Edmond and become my neighbor, unless you're poor. If that's the case then I don't want you anywhere near where I live, you know - the whole there goes the neighborhood aspect to it and all.

You're a piece of work, 'ya know? The "There goes the neighborhood," has nothing to do with anyone being poor. It has to do with a THUG HUB operating inside it. Get it?

And I consider being awakened every Friday night by thugs from Ray's IMPACTING me. What part of my explanation did you not understand that I can care about what's going on around me without my personally being touched? (Even though I have explained I am - every Friday night.)

You say this thread is about my nighborhood, the club and that's it. No, it's about a neighborhood in Oklahoma City. You could say a particular thread about anything is "just about that neighborhood." But that would be silly. Things going on in all parts of this city impacts us all - no matter where we live.

Some of us care about ALL of our city. Some of us are not so selfish that we must wait until something personally touches us to get involved. You just don't get it and that's fine, and since you think this is just about us, here at 59th and N. May, I guess you have no reason to post in this thread anymore?

[MikeOKC]

Alright. I've forwarded this on to an editor. You can let the police know you've been contacted by Steve Lackmeyer at The Oklahoman.

I missed this this morning. Thank you, Steve!

[Steve]

I've always wondered what would happen if a resident of one of these neighborhoods drove by the home of the building's owner at 2 a.m. blaring loud music, cursing and dumping trash on their street before speeding off.... not that I'm advocating that....

[nik4411]

yea they probably wouldn't like that would they steve.

[bradzilla]

Things going on in all parts of this city impacts us all - no matter where we live.
Some of us care about ALL of our city. Some of us are not so selfish that we must wait until something personally touches us to get involved.

You just don't get it and that's fine, and since you think this is just about us, here at 59th and N. May, I guess you have no reason to post in this thread anymore?

Im glad you posted this. One thing that you're forgetting is that those people, the ones you dont like; ARE ALSO PART OF OKC. Cities are a collection of people from many different backgrounds and walks of life that now all live in the same area. Its all part of the experience of living in any city in the world, not everyone is the same and that's what makes it exciting to live in a city over a suburban or exburban areas. Once you realize that you can't dictate how other people live their lives you'll be a lot happier person.

If your 'ideal' oklahoma city is a quite neighborhood with 98% white people, quite evenings, and no rap music then there are numerous places where you can easily move to make that come true. Its a lot easier than forcing your mental picture of what you think oklahoma city should be on the people you currently live around.

[MikeOKC]

Im glad you posted this. One thing that you're forgetting is that those people, the ones you dont like; ARE ALSO PART OF OKC. Cities are a collection of people from many different backgrounds and walks of life that now all live in the same area. Its all part of the experience of living in any city in the world, not everyone is the same and that's what makes it exciting to live in a city over a suburban or exburban areas. Once you realize that you can't dictate how other people live their lives you'll be a lot happier person.

If your 'ideal' oklahoma city is a quite neighborhood with 98% white people, quite evenings, and no rap music then there are numerous places where you can easily move to make that come true. Its a lot easier than forcing your mental picture of what you think oklahoma city should be on the people you currently live around.

I knew you didn't get it, but I didn't realize until your last post just how much you didn't get it.

You think it takes thug pockets to make a city "exciting?" You say I should move? It sounds like your ideal place is Detroit, Cleveland, Newark.

You think not wanting this crap at 2 AM and trying to keep thugs and crime out of my neighborhood is "trying to dictate the way people live?" That's just absurd.

I think if you want to do this back and forth we should take it PM. You already said you didn't think this thread impacts you at all. You've also been so arrogant as to tell me (who lives 3 blocks away) that it's not impacting me and that the Ray's problem is really my problem for failing to appreciate the diversity!

PM me if you don't have anything to add to this thread. Most of us here realize this place IS a problem. To you, it's a sign of an "exciting" city and you clearly have nothing more to contribute here. This world is turned upside down.

[bradzilla]

-You think it takes thug pockets to make a city "exciting?"
-You say I should move? It sounds like your ideal place is Detroit, Cleveland, Newark.

-You think not wanting this crap at 2 AM and trying to keep thugs and crime out of my neighborhood is "trying to dictate the way people live?" That's just absurd.

- Cities are diverse, they have many people from many cultures and WHO are you to say that people acting like 'thugs' is illegal? Obviously the cops have been by there and as i thought, being a 'thug' obviously isn't illegal.

-My ideal place is now Edmond. I used to live in oklahoma city in an apartment and I got tired of having upstairs neighbors blasting their music, having people over for parties at all hours, people parking in my spot, drunk people around my car, car alarms going off, etc.....so I moved. Sound familiar?

I realized that I could not control all the 22-35 year old recent college graduates who still wanted to act like they were in college. Even though they disrupted my sleep, acted like idiots, and i felt like they could damage something due to their stupidity....but it wasn't illegal. So now the trade off is that i have to drive back into the city if i want to meet friends at the bar, try to hang out with people who aren't 40-70 years of age, and my commute to work is much longer.

I'm giving you advice that you don't seem to be capable of comprehending. The cops said that they weren't going to do anything, the owner wont close the club, and the thugs don't care what you think and obviously according to the cops they aren't breaking the law. So unless you want to run for mayor and put a public ban on acting like a 'thug' inside of city limits your best option is to control what you do have control over and move.

[MikeOKC]

- Cities are diverse, they have many people from many cultures and WHO are you to say that people acting like 'thugs' is illegal? Obviously the cops have been by there and as i thought, being a 'thug' obviously isn't illegal.

-My ideal place is now Edmond. I used to live in oklahoma city in an apartment and I got tired of having upstairs neighbors blasting their music, having people over for parties at all hours, people parking in my spot, drunk people around my car, car alarms going off, etc.....so I moved. Sound familiar?

I realized that I could not control all the 22-35 year old recent college graduates who still wanted to act like they were in college. Even though they disrupted my sleep, acted like idiots, and i felt like they could damage something due to their stupidity....but it wasn't illegal. So now the trade off is that i have to drive back into the city if i want to meet friends at the bar, try to hang out with people who aren't 40-70 years of age, and my commute to work is much longer.

I'm giving you advice that you don't seem to be capable of comprehending. The cops said that they weren't going to do anything, the owner wont close the club, and the thugs don't care what you think and obviously according to the cops they aren't breaking the law. So unless you want to run for mayor and put a public ban on acting like a 'thug' inside of city limits your best option is to control what you do have control over and move.

It's called acting civilized. Some countries are civilized and some aren't. You are right, some of the uncivilized types are here in America. You REJOICE in this?

You're more full of it with every post. Don't ever try to improve a neighborhood? Drop over a quarter of a million dollars on a high-rise condo and then just let the neighborhood go to hell? Just drop things and move when things get rough? Maybe you're in your 20's and can do that. I'm 50 and have chosen where I want to live. When things get out of control at a local bar, I'm not going to just get up and move. (You must be really transient.) What is going on at Ray's is illegal. There are many laws broken in that parking lot every Friday night. The police have been there in the past (you said that was a "waste" of time) and now - for whatever reason they have chosen to not show up.

I noticed you didn't respond to my PM. This is where the discussion should go if you insist on making Ray's the good guy and ME the bad guy for wanting to clean it up. We can argue that all day long, but it shouldn't be in this thread.

You can take your leftist cultural crap and political correctness and shove it, Brad. This is my neighborhood and I CARE.

[bradzilla]

You can take your leftist cultural crap and political correctness and shove it, Brad. This is my neighborhood and I CARE.

HAHA, Leftist. Everything i've said has been in support of not wasting tax payer resources, unlike yourself. If anything the fact that you are dead set on living in a condo in the city while we are home owners in the suburbs should show you how leftist i am.

You're really grasping for anything at the moment.

I'm giving you advice that you don't seem to be capable of comprehending.

[mugofbeer]

Bradzilla, its clearly you who isn't capable of comprehending. If people going to Rheas want to wear bling and act all gangsta nobody's stopping them from doing that. What should be stopped is late night noise, loitering in the parking lot and keeping anyone who doesn't have business in the surrounding residential areas from being there.

You admitted you are a renter who allowed noisy neighbors to run you off. As a renter you can pick up and go anytime you want but in doing so you perpetuated a situation where someone violated your right to peace and quiet - yet you picked up and ran. Owners don't always have that luxury and I defy you to find any law or rule that allows others to violate the peace and quiet of a residential neighborhood at 2-3 AM.

If I understand the situation, MikeOKC lives across May Ave from Rheas. There is a huge parking lot to hold the cars so I wonder what possible reason people there would have to be wandering across May Ave into the residential area unless they live there?

Stop burying your head in the sand and recognize that this isn't a racist issue. Its an issue of the clash of mainstream residential life in America and the gangsta lifestyle. Until you've lived in his shoes, stop being such a judgmental person. People who own their homes can't just pick up and move because some building owner 300 feet away decided to open a late-night club. LIke it or not, much of gangsta is virtual worship of thuggery. Thuggery is what it is. If you choose to pick up and run that's your choice. THink about what that is called.

[mugofbeer]

all that i picked up was people playing music, being loud, and neighbors feeling intimidated?

That's all that is necessary right there when it violates the peace, quiet, safety and sanctity of your neighborhood. No one has a right to do this to a neighborhood.

[OKCisOK4me]

This is really going nowhere with Bradzilla and his theories/POV. What I want to know is why the parent company or one owner who owns the building can't raise their lease rate? When the tenant lease is over they need to jack it up so the owner of Rhea's can't afford it and he has to go find a new location--preferablly somewhere not near residential areas. I'd think they'd be aware of the complaints and the constant Friday night circlings of The Ghetto Bird--please Bradzilla, tell me where else this flies in OKC because of illegal activities not involving car chases???

[bradzilla]

-You admitted you are a renter who allowed noisy neighbors to run you off.

-If I understand the situation, MikeOKC lives across May Ave from Rheas. There is a huge parking lot to hold the cars so I wonder what possible reason people there would have to be wandering across May Ave into the residential area unless they live there?

-Its an issue of the clash of mainstream residential life in America and the gangsta lifestyle. .

-Im not sure how much you know about law, but im what they call a reasonable person. Reasonably I knew my rights and I knew that I couldn't expect to live in a high density area and not be bothered by other people. Regardless of their race.

-As i mentioned earlier in the thread, if the patrons of that business haven't broken any laws besides loitering for 45 minutes after a club closes, then mike doesn't really have a leg to stand on on getting 'them' out of his neighborhood. You cant punish a group of people for crimes they haven't committed.

-How is it a clash, they are oklahoma city residents hanging out in oklahoma city? What does their race or lifestyle have to do with anything?

I sometimes take for granted that some people don't have very high education levels or understanding of the law.

[bradzilla]

This is really going nowhere with Bradzilla and his theories/POV.

-My 'theories' are based on 8 years of college education and the law; I understand that might sound foreign to you.

All b.s. and conspiracy theories aside. Take a step back and look at the police response and the owners stance over this issue. LEGALLY the owner has nothing to worry about what you think of his clientele and what you feel they are doing to your neighborhood. If you dont believe me just take him to court....

[mugofbeer]

Im not sure how much you know about law, but im what they call a reasonable person. Reasonably I knew my rights and I knew that I couldn't expect to live in a high density area and not be bothered by other people. Regardless of their race.

This isn't a high density area and, once again, the issue isn't race. It's the gangsta lifestyle and the lack of concern about people who live in the area.

-As i mentioned earlier in the thread, if the patrons of that business haven't broken any laws besides loitering for 45 minutes after a club closes, then mike doesn't really have a leg to stand on on getting 'them' out of his neighborhood. You cant punish a group of people for crimes they haven't committed.

Loitering in the parking lot of the club is all you need. If "loitering" would break up the after hours noise, that's all thats needed.

-How is it a clash, they are oklahoma city residents hanging out in oklahoma city? What does their race or lifestyle have to do with anything?

This one is so obvious it doesn't deserve an answer. You are clearly not even trying to walk in his shoes and from how you say you live, I am not sure you would understand.

I sometimes take for granted that some people don't have very high education levels or understanding of the law.

Never said I was a lawyer but my BA and MBA suit me very well. Apparently your education taught you well about being smarmy and arrogant. I couldn't give a rat's *** about your education. Most of us understand life and our families and our safety perfectly well which has absolutely nothing to do with education and everything to do with observation. When you decide to grow up and buy a real house in a real neighborhood and have real concerns for your real family and your real life maybe you will understand.

[PennyQuilts]

I realized that I could not control all the 22-35 year old recent college graduates who still wanted to act like they were in college. Even though they disrupted my sleep, acted like idiots, and i felt like they could damage something due to their stupidity....but it wasn't illegal.
...
I'm giving you advice that you don't seem to be capable of comprehending. The cops said that they weren't going to do anything, the owner wont close the club, and the thugs don't care what you think and obviously according to the cops they aren't breaking the law. So unless you want to run for mayor and put a public ban on acting like a 'thug' inside of city limits your best option is to control what you do have control over and move.

I sometimes take for granted that some people don't have very high education levels or understanding of the law.

-My 'theories' are based on 8 years of college education and the law; I understand that might sound foreign to you.

I'm a lawyer with a pretty high level of education. Since you brought it up and put such stock in it, Brad, I am wondering what in the world about your 8 years of college education (are you a slow learner, or what?) and "understanding" of the law would cause you to believe that thugs and thugettes causing all kinds of commotion at 2 - 3 in the morning should be endured by homeowners? The best advice you give them is to abandon a neighborhood because of thuggery in the middle of the night - this is what you came up with all your education? If every homeowner did this, the city is would simply go to crap. That is ridiculous.

You said:

LEGALLY the owner has nothing to worry about what you think of his clientele and what you feel they are doing to your neighborhood. If you dont believe me just take him to court....

Are you a lawyer? Because if you are, I am surprised you are giving specific legal advice about the homeowner's options and pontificating about whether specific laws have been broken. Moreover, even if you are a lawyer, I would be surprised by the comments about thuggery not being illegal, the police haven't found anything, etc. There are lots of reasons things aren't prosecuted and there are plenty of times when thuggery is also illegal, depending on the facts. And you can't tell from what has been posted, here.

If you aren't a lawyer, why do you feel qualified to hand out legal advice on criminal law, municipal law and homeowners' remedies? Telling someone they have no recourse on (with no more information than you've gotten on a message board) is, I devoutly hope, coming from a layperson. I can't imagine a competent attorney being so reckless. There is a world of difference in discussing the law, which is done frequently on the board, vs. opining whether someone specifically has a case - particularly under these fuzzy facts. You may have 8 years of college education but, apparently, you are still waiting for good judgment to kick in.

And when I say that, I am not saying it was wrong or stupid or illdvised for you to move to Edmond. It was a personal choice and one you clearly thought about. That is one solution to the problem - but not the only one. My concern with what you posted was in diving into the legal options involved and making it sound quite cut and dried. You don't know the facts. You can't know. To give that sort of "it's so obvious even an idiot should figure this out" advice is reckless and it is no wonder you ran into such a firestorm.

[fuzzytoad]

Hey Brad, next Friday night(that would be 3/20/2010), how 'bout you and me go to Rhea's around 11PM?

I'll blast some Rammstein out of a Hummer and you can get out and explain how we're just there to have a normal night out in OKC.

I promise not to leave you there.

i'll pay your cover...

[bradzilla]

Looks like a few people had pretty slow Saturday nights.

-It's the gangsta lifestyle and the lack of concern about people who live in the area.

-Loitering in the parking lot of the club is all you need. If "loitering" would break up the after hours noise, that's all thats needed.

-When you decide to grow up and buy a real house in a real neighborhood and have real concerns for your real family and your real life maybe you will understand.

-Once again, Gangsta lifestyle isn't illegal and black people visiting a business in a white neighborhood isnt illegal either. No matter how much you wish it were true.

-Kinda borderline there, its obviously a good sized club with a lot of patrons. When was the last time that you saw any club parking lot as a ghost town 15 minutes after it closes, cops or no cops?

-Mentioned it earlier I am a home owner, in a neighborhood, and do have a family. They haven't received your stamp as being 'real', but im not going to hold my breath since you are also under the mindset that the 'thugs' dont have the same civil rights that you do since you dont approve of their lifestyle.

-If you aren't a lawyer, why do you feel qualified to hand out legal advice on criminal law, municipal law and homeowners' remedies?

-On the Federal side of the house I get to hear insane things about what people think their rights are all the time. As I mentioned earlier, if he feels that he's been wronged by the club owner for opening a black club a few blocks from his condo then take him to court. I know courts are real big on making sure that cities stay segregated and that blacks dont dare visit businesses in white neighborhoods. The complaint is coming from a guy who said this, so Im positive it will go well -

Not to mention the "There goes the neighborhood" aspect to it all.

-it is no wonder you ran into such a firestorm.

-Its comparable to children bickering because one child rode a bike in front of the other child's house.