Urban Land Institute Sends Advisors / MAPS Oversight Board Moves Forward

[mugofbeer]

Hey, even Sean Penn is entitled to an opinion!

[LordGerald]

Love and Hugs to everyone!!!! Remember we all get to have our own opinions.

What's the old saying about opinions? You know, opinions are like ........, everyone has one.

[Doug Loudenback]

I do have to give big respect for using your real name when most people won't...it's easy to just get a fake name and say whatever you want behind a shield, I'm glad you don't do that.

Hear hear!

[Mikemarsh51]

Soonerguru, you need to stay off of here, the adults are talking!

[soonerguru]

Soonerguru, you need to stay off of here, the adults are talking!

And exhibiting such civilized, adult behavior!

[Mikemarsh51]

Soonerguru, these are called discussions, now off to your room, Barney reruns are coming on.

[Larry OKC]

Point 2 - I don't have time to go back and re-read the 10000 posts about MAPS3 but it was said early on that state law prevents the ballot from listing out the specific projects and earmarking specific funds that way.

Actually, that is precisely the way it is supposed to be done. Each project listed as a separate proposition (or at least the "like kind" ones grouped appropriately). This is the way the G.O. and School bond issues are done. The overly broad, generic "capital improvement" can apply to just about anything. Even if the anti-log rolling provision doesn't apply to cities like it does the Legislature as Midtowner pointed there is a constitutional requirement that the projects be described in "specific". Since none of the proposed projects are mentioned or even referenced (i.e. "Exhibit A - Letter of Intent"), it would appear that MAPS 3 is unconstitutional (just as MAPS 1 most likely was, not because it listed the projects, but it lumped them all together in an "all or nothing" format). The City got away with it because no one challenged it. The City will get away with the MAPS 3 Ballot/Ordinance as well, unless someone challenges it. Unfortunately, that takes money and resources.

[betts]

And, Larry, I suspect many of the voters would have preferred the original type of ballot, unconstitutional or no. We appreciate that many things got done in the first MAPS that might not have passed individually and, with retrospect, were a good idea. The majority of voters had the opportunity to vote against the ballot in it's current language and voted "for", regardless of the vaugueness.

[Larry OKC]

Still amazes me that some really don't care if what they want is done legally or not. Don't you understand that is precisely why log rolling is illegal? You know, the grouping of unpopular items with the popular ones just so someone can get their pet project passed. I'm sorry, but if a project can not stand on its own merits, then it deserves to fail. Don't forget the Mayor said: NewsOK

"I think the citizens are going to look at this with a very discerning eye. Each of these projects is going to have to stand on its own.”

[andy157]

Still amazes me that some really don't care if what they want is done legally or not. Don't you understand that is precisely why log rolling is illegal? You know, the grouping of unpopular items with the popular ones just so someone can get their pet project passed. I'm sorry, but if a project can not stand on its own merits, then it deserves to fail. Don't forget the Mayor said: NewsOK

The reality was none of them had to stand on their own. But you have to admit, it sure sounded good when the Mayor said each of them would have to.

[mugofbeer]

I still don't see what any of this has to do with whether the CC is built first or last. What difference does it make? The important things are WHERE it is built, it's design and functionality and it's architectural significance.

I'd far rather our city leaders seek, listen and consider the advice of a panel of world-renowned experts than have something in concrete that can't be altered in the least that was put together by OKC planners. Nothing against the OKC planners, but they had to put a proposal together to present to the citizens. As long as the elements are intact, who cares? If the goal is 6, and 2 + 4 = 6, who cares if it's presented as 4 + 2 = 6 or 3 x 2 = 6?

As I said before, our city leaders did pretty good jobs with the last 4 tax proposals, they've earned some discretion on how this is done. With a decent oversight board and watchful citizens like the people on this board, they will be routed out if something is done that isn't in the best interest of the MAPS3 goals.

[Popsy]

From what I have read, only one ULI panelist said that the convention center should be built first and he gave no strategic reason for doing so. Therefore, I do not feel the city should be bound to complete the CC first. My thought is that the river projects should be done first along with the rail being installed in conjunction with project 180. My reason for the river projects is for the purpose of cementing our reputation as the up and coming premier rowing venue in the country, if not the world. You can almost count on someone trying to get there first if we do not. After all, Tulsa trys to copy just about everthing we have done with maps and copying our ideas for the rowing sports is sure to come.

[BOBTHEBUILDER]

From what I have read, only one ULI panelist said that the convention center should be built first and he gave no strategic reason for doing so. Therefore, I do not feel the city should be bound to complete the CC first. My thought is that the river projects should be done first along with the rail being installed in conjunction with project 180. My reason for the river projects is for the purpose of cementing our reputation as the up and coming premier rowing venue in the country, if not the world. You can almost count on someone trying to get there first if we do not. After all, Tulsa trys to copy just about everthing we have done with maps and copying our ideas for the rowing sports is sure to come.

Good points!!!!!!!

[mugofbeer]

So if that's the case then the issue is moot and all those who are accusing the mayor and all the city leaders of somehow trying to cheat us out of all that MAPS money have pretty much imagined their entire arguement.

[BigD Misey]

IF I were a developer, here is what I would like to see...



If the City did 3 things, it would tempt me to purchase areas in blue.
1. Build Conv Center on W side of tracks
2. Build the Boathouse district and finalize world class river facilities & events centers
3. Even if they were to just bulldoze and put soccer/FB/Baseball fields like at Wheeler Park, just make the pedestrian bridge an attraction by connecting the parks. Then, even if developers want to tap into that park area south of the Crosstown, at least they will have cleared land and there will be a bit of a cusion between them and the blighted area.

The sole reason I skipped the coop is cost. If it costs the developers too much, it will cost the city too much.
If the convention center is to be built on the E side of Shields, then where will the Hotel go? The hotel will need to be nearest to the events centers, on the north side. That means the convention center would be pushed south in the Co-Op area, which escalates the cost greatly.
So while the ULI recommends the Convention Center be built on the Lumber yard, they also recommend a 700 room hotel. Both will not fit on the lumber yard, but would fit on the west side together with parking and the hotel will be primely situated.
The lumber yard is already prime realestate and will sell quickly being it is along the new Boulevard. And Rocktown Climbing Center is already a hit. I say leave the expensive COOP alone and build around it for now. Save it for another Maps. It should be prime area...between the river and Bricktown, near the proposed park and the Ford Center. But, if the COOP is the place to build, why haven’t Private developers been knocking down doors to buy it? The COST, thats why!

The parks can be improved in stages, as long as the 'Beauty' is foreseeable, I say just clear the park areas and improve in stages in order to encourage foot traffic between the river and Myriad Gardens, even a simple jogging/bike trail would help, just keep it extremely manageable for the first few years.

Should the Boat house district be finished, and the summer events hoped for become a reality, the blue zones become prime zones for retail and the mixed use triangle suddenly becomes prime real-estate. Notice how few blue zones there are. I dont see much retail demand in the next 10 years. But if all 3 elements are built, I think alot more mixed use retail will be built in the 10 years following its completion, south of the Crosstown 40 between Wheeler park and the newly built park along Shields.

Build those three things, and they will come!
It's just my opinion...Signing out.

[Larry OKC]

From what I have read, only one ULI panelist said that the convention center should be built first and he gave no strategic reason for doing so. Therefore, I do not feel the city should be bound to complete the CC first. ...

Same could be said about all of the recommendations as each panelist had their own specialty. Will have to go back and rewatch it, but I believe they did give the reasons for doing it first...will repost later

Also, the City is bound by any of the recommendations by experts in their respective fields. The experts of course can be wrong...

[Popsy]

Same could be said about all of the recommendations as each panelist had their own specialty. Will have to go back and rewatch it, but I believe they did give the reasons for doing it first...will repost later

Also, the City is bound by any of the recommendations by experts in their respective fields. The experts of course can be wrong...

My statement was based on the article Steve wrote after the ULI comments were made. I have since read a more comprehensive article in the OKC Review which mentioned another panelist promoting the idea and reasons were given.

[Larry OKC]

Popsy, thanks for the followup post

Correction to my original post...should be: "Also, the City is NOT bound ..."

[mugofbeer]

IF I were a developer, here is what I would like to see...

I still like the convention center on the east side of the tracks, incorporating the U-haul building, spanning the new I-40 boulevard and then going south into the CO-OP land. Its close to bricktown and its close enough to downtown and leaves the land along the east side of the park available for residential.

[Kerry]

I still like the convention center on the east side of the tracks, incorporating the U-haul building, spanning the new I-40 boulevard and then going south into the CO-OP land. Its close to bricktown and its close enough to downtown and leaves the land along the east side of the park available for residential.

The Tampa Convention Center spans Platt St (a pretty major one way street) in downtown Tampa. I always thought it was kind of cool driving under/through the Convention Center. You can check it out on Google Earth.

[OKC@heart]

The Tampa Convention Center spans Platt St (a pretty major one way street) in downtown Tampa. I always thought it was kind of cool driving under/through the Convention Center. You can check it out on Google Earth.

The Dallas Convention Center also has a street running underneath it.

[mugofbeer]

Denver has both a street and a light rail line + it has a 5000 seat auditorium suitable for rock concerts attached to it.

And don't forget the 20 foot tall blue bear peering in the window.

[possumfritter]

Could someone suggest the best way to find out who actually owns the different parcels of land in Core to Shore? Is there, by chance, a list of all the street addresses of the properties involved?

I'm simply interested in finding out who stands to gain the most in this deal?

Thanks

[urbanity]

Core to Shore places new convention center next to central park, but others don?t agree | OKG Scene.com

[Kerry]

Could someone suggest the best way to find out who actually owns the different parcels of land in Core to Shore? Is there, by chance, a list of all the street addresses of the properties involved?

I'm simply interested in finding out who stands to gain the most in this deal?

Thanks

Try this site. I could spend hours on here.

Geocortex Internet Mapping

If you are trying to find economic or business related data try this site. I have spent hours on this site.

Oklahoma City Economic Development Available sites, buildings, demographics, businesses and GIS mapping--