Chinese Crested Pup Bites

[GretaGecko]

Hello, everyone. Sorry, this is a long post.

Bean, my 4-month-old Hairless Chinese Crested, is the most wonderful, interestingly unique dog I have ever owned. She is quite beautiful and very very smart. But the little dickens communicates most commonly by biting. She gets vicious and downright weird about it. Last night, she lunged at my face, snapping at my nose -- for no reason. She has also taken to nipping at me when I am cleaning her pen if she is in it. The more I tell her No, the harder she bites. She is not being abused and is totally loved. At this time, she about 50/50 on being calm and loving vs. psycho pup. I do assert myself as the "alpha", the boss, and I have owned other animals for many years with no problems.

The breeders tell me the litter was "rescued" from another breeder that was very ill, and the pups didn't get enough socialization from the mother dog, who was sent to another home. I don't know what age. The litter stayed together until 12 weeks, which is good, but I am wondering how much actual interaction with humans the pups had, or how they were treated before being rescued. On the other hand, the breeders I bought her from are excellent people and very loving towards the pups, and had other animals around to teach socialization.

Bean has other behavioral problems, like struggling and scratching all excited to greet other humans. She loves people. But she gets so wild about everything, it seems.

For anyone not familiar with this breed, the Hairless Chinese Crested has got a major mutation, which results in different degrees of hairlessness and also a primitive mouth -- very sharp, pointed teeth, and sometimes missing teeth. In one litter, you can get the Powderpuff, Hairy Hairless, the Hairless and the True Hairless, depending on if they get the Hairless Gene. The more Hairless they are, they have more "primitive" physical characteristics. (I'm wondering about the behavior too.)

Here is a big clue: I found out the original breeder bred two Hairless Cresteds to get this litter, very bad, which results in dead pups in the womb, and stillborns, and lots of genetic defects. So -- I'm wondering how my sweet little Jekyl and Hyde pup that gives me hugs and obviously loves me, can be broken from this wild behavior, without making her mean.

I'm hoping that she is just going through a puppy stage, and I am trying not to reinforce her behavior. My best result was today. I started this thing that when she is chewing on my fingers, (which always escalates into biting) -- I come at her with slap on the rump real fast, and she stops and looks around to see what was that? I was trying so hard not to laugh. And she stopped. Then she was getting mean again afterwards, so I took her to her pen. I just don't want her to grow up mean and unpredictable. I have scars from the biting.

Any ideas?

LaVerne

[OKCMallen]

Biting is a tough one...gotta be consistent, and I know this sounds terrible, but personally, I'd be very liberal with the spanking. They don't understand much else...

[TaoMaas]

Do you ever watch "The Dog Whisperer" on the Nat'l Geo. channel? Most behavior problems in dogs can be traced back to how their owners treat them. That's not to say you're a bad owner, but rather that you may be sending the wrong signals to your dog when you don't mean to. Lest anyone think that this is all tv razzle-dazzle, I was in the vet's office yesterday and was listening to some people talk to the groomer. They were amazed that the groomer was able to get their dog to sit still for a bath and nail clipping. They'd tried for years to do these things and only got bitten. The groomer was laughing and explaining how he used the dog's natural tendencies to get it to cooperate.

[GretaGecko]

Yes, I have watched that show. I know what you are saying. Actually, Bean is very pampered and has only known love here. I have wondered if I was reinforcing this behavior accidentally. But when I mentioned this behavior to the breeders, they said that another new owner of a pup from the same litter was having behavioral problems, and they had told that owner that the pups hadn't been with the mother long enough. I am not sure if I have gotten the whole story.

LaVerne

[PennyQuilts]

She is only four months old so at least her behavior is not something she has done for years. All my girls have struggled with play biting at that age and have had to learn to mind their manners but I have to say that none behaved the way you are describing. Of course, my girls are medium/big dogs and seems like small dogs and big dogs are sometimes two different species. The smaller ones seem to be much more likely to bite but I don't know if that is their nature or because people allow it because it doesn't seem dangerous. I honestly don't know the answer to that.

I was taught that dogs need intense human socialization between 5 - 8 weeks to optimally bond with humans. It is during that period that they get enough dog socialization from mama and their littermates as well as switch their prime allegience to humans. The three breeders I've gotten my girls from made a practice of deliberately keeping the pups until 7.5 weeks old to send the pups home with their new families before the close of that developmental period - although I expect that it ranges from breed to breed. I will say that one of my girls didn't come home until she was nearly 12 weeks due to specific circumstances. While a sweet, gentle dog, she was markedly different in terms of human bonding than the others. She is now five years old and it has only been in the last year that she has shown signs of "getting" how humans think. My other girls seemed to understand it, intuitively. Given the option, I would not wait that long, again. I really think it made a difference. Still, our five year old has never shown the slightest signs of aggression - just a lack of people skills. She is very hard to read although she is getting better.

The two dogs I've had that had the best people skills as grown dogs were also both the higher energy dogs who were the most likely to nip when they got excited. It wasn't aggression, simply excitement when they were puppies. Once they figured it out (and they were older than your pup), it was never a problem. It sounds like you are doing everything you can to correct her behavior. If it keeps up, I would get with a behaviorist because they can do wonders to diagnose and correct bad habits.

I went back and read your post and it sounds like you believe there is something "wrong" with your pup. Upon reflection, I can't imagine a four month old pup being vicious or mean unless there was some sort of a problem. Most of them are still really goofy. I can tell you that my girls have never been hit or slapped. I would hold their mouth closed if they nipped me and press them to the floor to hold them down. We don't yell at them - just hold them past the point where they give in and stop struggling - and we say firmly but quietly, "NO BITING." I would never hit them - no need to when you have them as a puppy. You are bigger than them and like a bigger dog, can assert your authority simply by controlling their freedom of movement. I learned that from an old dog we had that would lay on the pups when she wanted them to behave - she'd press her chest against them and hold them down. Worked like a charm. Now, even my one year old will hit the dirt if I point to the floor because she knows that when I say down, she needs to lay down and get herself under control. And since she has never been yelled at or hit, she doesn't do it from fear but from respect and because "that's just what you do."

It sounds like you have an excitable dog. I couldn't tell how you handled her so I am not assuming anything, but if it were me, I'd be sure that no matter what, I kept calm. Adding frustration to a situation already filled with spastic puppy <vbg> rarely makes it better. Good luck. Some of those exotic breeds can be tricky, I understand. Gotta picture?

[GretaGecko]

Thank you for those thoughts, Penny. I see that you have posted quite a bit in this area, and figured I would hear from you.

I am like you. I prefer no slapping or hitting on any animal, started out trying to break this stuff with holding her mouth shut, holding her down, talking to her, trying to teach her, but this didn't stick. At first, it would, but as she has gotten older, the unpredictable stuff started -- jumping up suddenly and going for my face or other body parts. That's a little disconcerting. At this stage, she is so young that I can't tell if she is doing a terrible two's thing or a socialization problem. It is interesting that you mention the younger pup you got was better with humans, and the older pup didn't quite understand humans. I totally agree. I worried about getting an older pup, but there are the two schools that believe mommy socialization is very important and the other one like you said. So I don't know. It is entirely possible that Bean is genetically influenced here, because of her parents being two Hairless, but also what if the pups were left with not much human interaction after the former breeder got ill, and all that was done was a visit from someone just to feed and water the pups. That is possible.

I will never know and my budget doesn't allow a behavioral professional. I just see this as a challenge and I am working with her. She is so special.

LaVerne

[GretaGecko]

If anyone is curious, here is a photo of my wild girl. She really has many good qualities.

LaVerne

[flippity]

she is probably too pampered, like a spoiled child...try scruffing her neck and growling instead of just saying "no" making a growling noise, I mean...that's how mama dogs discipline, they grab'em by the neck.

[JohnDenver]

I won't get high brow about this, but I wish you would have adopted a dog instead of supporting a breeder. There are so many dogs in OKC that need a home. I adopted one dog in Dallas when I lived there and immediately took in another dog when we moved to OKC. They are the best things in my house. Even rare breeds have rescue groups. The other week my friend's gf had a French Bulldog foster at her house. People pay $5000 for them, but they have plenty of them in the rescue needing a home.

Last year the Oklahoma City Animal Shelter impounded more than 28,000 live animals, and approximately 40 percent of all intakes were surrendered by their owners. Over 18,000 cats and dogs were euthanized. Only 4,407 were adopted

Your little dog is cute. I hope she sorts it all out and decides that living the pampered life is good enough for her.

[GretaGecko]

You sound so negative. I don't know think it is bad to get a dog from a breeder. Not all of them are puppy farms, and this allows people to get the type of breed they want. I had my reasons for getting a puppy, not a grown animal, and I'm not on any guilt trip for buying Bean. BTW, she IS a rescue, but not from the OKC shelter. Before Bean, I adopted a rescue animal from the OKC Shelter, a kitten, and she was very healthy, very sweet, but was put down 4 days later by the shelter, because she had picked up the cat flu while at the shelter. She was so cute. I miss her.

LaVerne

[Eep]

I won't get high brow about this, but I wish you would have adopted a dog instead of supporting a breeder.

You sound so negative. I don't know think it is bad to get a dog from a breeder.

I don't think he(?) was trying to condemn you personally or anything, LaVerne. The rescue vs. breeder thing is just a hot-button issue for some of us animal lovers. I suspect the point was more to raise awareness of the fact that there are so many perfectly adoptable rescued animals to be found locally, even if you want a purebred.

I personally think that professional animal breeders serve a function - to provide animals that can be shown. If you want to do the dog show thing, buy a pedigreed dog from a reputable breeder. Unfortunately though, this part of the country is filled with disreputable breeders with little to no concern for their animals' health and welfare, and a lot of people don't realize that they can still find dogs that aren't "mutts" as rescues. I have a Shih-Tzu from the MWC pound and Mini. Schnauzer that was a rescue adopted from my vet. I'm glad your little one has found a caring home; it sounds like she had a less than ideal start to her life.

Regarding her behavioral issues, it might help you get to the root of the problem to understand what seems to be motivating her to do it. You mention that she bites when you clean her pen while she's in it. Dogs tend to be territorial, and the simplest solution may be to clean her pen when she's not inside - you can try to train away from that behavior, but be aware that you're going against her nature with that so it'll probably be an uphill battle.

PennyQuilts also suggested that as a puppy, she's easily excitable (I also agree that most likely there's nothing "wrong" with your puppy). When I encounter this situation with my puppy and he starts to get out of hand and nips, I take my hand away, look him right in the eyes, and say "no biting" very firmly but calmly. Then I hand him back whatever toy we were playing with so that he can occupy himself, but I don't give him attention for 5 minutes or so. I don't play "tug of war" type games with my dogs because I feel like it encourages an adversarial play dynamic between them and me, so you might consider the implications of that if she likes to play that way.

Some high-activity dogs tend to act out if they don't feel like they have a "job". You might try more structured attention with her and see how she responds. She may really enjoy the repetitive nature of training to learn tricks, etc. Consistency and routine can be very reassuring to animals who have had some trauma in their lives, and it's a great way to bond.

[PennyQuilts]

If anyone is curious, here is a photo of my wild girl. She really has many good qualities.

LaVerne

OMG, she is precious! The little wild child!!!

[GretaGecko]

Eep: Your thoughts were greatly appreciated.

Penny: Thanks for the compliment. I can't believe she is so so pretty.

UPDATE: Bean is doing really good. Mainly, I was worried that I couldn't correct her on the biting and nipping without making her mean, and she was really being very mean too. Ugh. Much better now.

Just for the record, Bean is unlike any animal I have ever had. Anyway, she is a perfect, normal Hairless Chinese Crested -- and they ARE different. I found out that the Hairless Sphynx Cat and the Hairless Chinese Crested have similar personalities, both having the hairless gene. And the Chinese Crested breeders AND the Hairless Sphynx Cat breeders BOTH say that not everyone can own one, wouldn't want one, because they are very unique, are extremely high energy, need lots of attention and care, and they also can be hard to house-train.

I wouldn't give her up for anything.

LaVerne

[PennyQuilts]

I have my samoyeds (wow - couldn't more different on the hair!) and you really do get different personalities from breed to breed, although it varies widely. We always tell people to think long and hard before getting one because they aren't for everyone - high energy, need tons of attention and won't be happy if they aren't with their family practically 24/7 - these are shedding housedogs who need a job to be happy. Point being that a lot of times a dog that is normal for its genetics can seem unusual to someone not used to them.

As an aside, I want to also give a shout out to people who adopt from the pound. Having been involved in Samoyed rescue, I've been to various pounds/humane shelters and it is enough to break your heart to see the poor darlings locked in what must seem like an insane asylum. The over breeding abandonment and mishandling of these darlings is, as my grandmother used to say, a sin and a shame. The last time I went, the place was absolutely filled with dumped pit bulls, the sweet things. The vast majority were going to be put down if they weren't puppies, and they were all so scared. Makes you sick. SPAY AND NEUTER, PEOPLE!! It is the only way to shut off the faucet.

And in defense of breed specific owners, let me gently point out that there are quite a few that are heavily engaged in rescue and they are willing to devote the time and energy to make sure many of those dogs are given good, happy lives - taking the burden off the all breed rescues.

Moreover, just as a reminder, show litters of, say, six pups generally only have one or two that are fit for show. There is a market for the companion pups who are invariably neutered and sold pursuant to a contract that is pages long, drafted with the intent to provide protections to the pups that the law doesn't provide. Absent breed specific enthusiasts, these pups would end up at the pound, too. Not that many people are going to shell out $1,500.00 for a dog they can't show and can't breed if they aren't passionate about the breed. The breed enthusiasts tend to give dogs a wonderful home, veterinary care all their lives and not abandon them for someone else to pay for when they get old and sick.

Moreover, and I think this may be the most important, for years they have set the standard in contracting to demand humane treatment of the animals, standards that the all breed rescues try to adopt to the general public. It is through the efforts of breed specific owners, who as a matter of course provide legal protections to the dogs, that the public's consciousness is being raised to provide protections. The all breeds who are so often abused, are the group that lends itself to fight "abuse," and are adopting many of the same requirements standard to breed specific groups - things like home visits before adoption, need for fenced yards and references, no history of abusing or abandoning dogs or children, the need to S/N, the obligation to return the dog rather than transfer it (or dump it). But it is the breed specific group that has gone the furthest to be able to standardize contractural protections - they've treated dogs like members of the family for a long, long time. Back in the not so distant past, these were the folkes deemed by mainstream to be almost wacky about their dogs. These days, they are much more mainstream and most people "get" that their dogs are simply a family member, much like a child. And for many, a child substitute if they either don't have children or their children are grown and gone.

It isn't a contest and they shouldn't conflict - my experience is that the groups work well together. The over worked allbreed rescues seem to appreciate that when they get what looks like a purebred, they can pick up the phone and know that it is one less dog that is going to be be put down. Even the old and sick ones are generally taken in and given a decent life, even if they need expensive medication. All breeds just don't have that resource and end up having to be put down, sadly. And I have seen rescuers drive all night to rush to get to a high kill shelter two states away to save a dog. There is a huge network of breed specific groups that will dig in their pockets to help out an elderly, sick Samoyed, Collie, greyhound or what have you. Would that it were so for all the dogs. These breed specific, except for the puppy mills and the ignornant, if well intended, backyard breeder, aren't the ones who are churning out the dogs. Thankfully, the word is out and most have adopted the notion that you shouldn't breed more than you can place. And there are waiting lines, as someone said, that are years long, in cases (although usually you can find whatever you want inside of six months).

[JohnDenver]

I wasn't sounding negative, nor being negative. My family members used to breed and sell Schnauzers to help their family farm during bad crop times. It got them by, they made a living and who can complain, right? Just because breeders aren't all "puppy mills", it still is a profession I (personally) don't understand. My brother in-law had irrational reasons for wanting a pure-bred Lab. He wanted a dog that will be loyal, tame and gentle -- because they were trying to have their first child. They went and picked out the perfect Lab from a breeder and shelled out a pretty penny. Fast forward 3 years and they have spent more on that dog than they have their child. It has skin problems that required prescription medicine and constantly needs professional training because it is dumb as a rock. My brother in-law grew up in a house with nothing but rescue dogs and loved every single one of them... they never had a bad dog. His wife on the other hand never had dogs, so she thought that shelter dogs were bad dogs because "why else do they end up there??!" He didn't want to argue with his pregnant wife anymore, so they went to a breeder. Now she says they will adopt an older dog when they want another dog.

I was in the same situation. I didn't grow up with animals. My wife did. I wanted a certain breed... my wife said I was crazy. I listened to her and ended up at a shelter trying to get to know the personalities of the dogs and a week later we had the perfect fit for us. I can't imagine doing it any other way. Then our second dog was abandoned by a breeder, he was a little chihuaha stud and left in the Lowes parking lot. This little dude humped everything that moved when we found him... a trip to the vet took care of that, and the worms and the ear infection and the fleas. He turned out to be the perfect pack dog for my existing dog.

With all that said, you don't have a problem with a breeder, and that is fine. I am not saying breeding should be illegal, just regulated better. I am tired of seeing all the pitbull mothers with sagging teets running the streets... and then a sign for "$100 Pitbull pups" in front of houses all over this city. I am tired of the cages of puppies in the Walmart parking lot, where you can guy a $100 dog from some strange person, who doesn't care about spreading parvo or abandoning the mother after they are finished with them.

Like was already said, I was just drawing attention to it. I wasn't telling you that you are a bad person. In fact, I really like your name. My grandfather is named Laverne, so I instantly smiled at your post.. you come off as genuine and caring about your wild dog.


Here are my two dogs:

Cowboy: http://www.flickr.com/photos/27799585@N05/4404487420/
Daisy: http://www.flickr.com/photos/2779958...n/photostream/

[PennyQuilts]

I honestly would like to personally slap a huge percentage of the people out there breeding pitbulls. What is frickin' wrong with you people? (this is an "if the shoe fits sentiment"). They are such sweet dogs and so many of them end their lives in barking pounds, cowering in a corner, scared to death and no one will adopt them because of their reputation for being vicious. I know of some folks who have rescued pits (even though they have purebred Samoyeds) and when I think about how these pits have been treated in comparison to our girls and so many other beloved pets, I want to cry.

[PennyQuilts]

Oh Lord, Cowboy and Daisy - what great names and how cute!

[betts]

I don't know how anyone in good conscience can breed dogs if they don't understand the breed and the potential for genetic problems with a breed, don't test for those genetic problems and try to breed dogs that don't carry them, don't breed for temperament as well and don't have very strict spay/neuter requirements as well as the option to return any adult dog or puppy bred by them if a family couldn't keep a dog. Breeding dogs strictly to sell them or to enjoy the fun of having a litter around the house is unconscionable to me and I don't know how those people live with themselves.

Sure, I'd love to have the fun of a litter of puppies in my house, and sometimes I'm jealous of the enjoyment the breeders get out of having those puppies. But, I realize there is no way I have the time or expertise to give those puppies what they need: a chance to live a long and happy life with a family because they've been bred for health and temperament. And I can't be selfish about something that affects an animal's life, health and happiness.

[PennyQuilts]

Betts, a lot of people feel the same way you do. A lot don't.

I don't think we will ever see the day when only healthy purebreds are bred. It is just too expensive to provide all that absent a market of buyers willing to fork over big bucks. The vast majority of people simply can't, or won't pay $1,500.00 (or more) for a family dog just so junior can have the experience of having a pup around the house.

People like me, breed specific enthusiasts, are the ones who support a particular breed and make it financially feasible to maintain healthy breed standards the way you describe. That is the way we'd all like it to be in a perfect world - fewer dogs but well bred, healthy and well cared for with medical care provided for life. Most breed specific enthusiasts that I know would be horrified to dump a dog because it got old, sick or otherwise inconvenient and will dig into their pockets if they learn of one who is in a bad way. And more and more make specific, legal provisions for the care of their dogs should the owner pass away. I was working with someone on that, just yesterday. They pay for good fences. They pay to board or have a dog sitter if they have to be away. They keep up with their shots and take the dogs in for well checks even if they aren't in crisis. Even though their dogs are "show" quality annd in high demand, nearly everyone I know spays and neuters their dogs unless they are "actually" showing them. But all that is expensive. And it is a way of looking at dogs that many don't have. Plenty of people see dogs as little more than livestock and we are still living in a time when people would not only be bemused at someone treating their dog like a baby, but offended at the comparison.

The backyard breeder that you're discussing treats dogs as if they are toys and disposible ones, at that. A litter of 8 lab mixes might have three placed or sold and the rest sent to the pound. Some might be adopted there because they are still cute puppies. Chances are, some will surrendered and end up being put down. The folks who want Junior to have the experience of having puppies have intact dogs around, which increases the likelihood of behavioral problems, including marking, roaming, aggression and certain health conditions. All that results in increased frustration with the dog which, in turn, increases the likelihood that the dog will be dumped. Or that the dog will roam and restart the cycle with more pups.

I am not saying that people of modest means can't properly and lovingly care for dogs because we all know better than that. But breeders who are doing it right, can't just give the dogs away and stay afloat. To do the things you described takes money. If the only people who bred dogs did it "the right way," only a small percentage of people could afford them. The trick is to have a balance and raise the standards of people who do decide to breed and the most important thing is to get it into the heads of people that they need to S/N their pets to stop churning out pups that no one wants and will just end up being put down.

[betts]

Penny, actually the real problem I see is that a lot of people want purebreds, and purebreds, because of the necessity for inbreeding at some points in time, are just far more likely to have genetic diseases that show up in the line. So, you end up with the people who cater to those who want low cost purebreds by breeding them cheaply, and they don't breed for temperament, don't take time to socialize them, don't keep them until they're 8 weeks old, etc because they can make more money doing it faster and bigger. We would be a lot better off if the inexpensive dogs were mutts or mixes, but I'm not really sure how to make that happen.

The other problem is, of course as you say, the spay and neuter issue. There are people who can never quite get it together to get birth control for themselves so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that there are more who either don't want to come up with the money to spay or neuter, or who just never get around to it and lo and behold, their cute little puppy is now pregnant. Then, don't get me started on the "miracle of birth" issue with people who want their kids to observe it. They can now find the miracle of birth on youtube if they really want their kids to watch it. Or the concept that their dogs will somehow be happier if they get to have "just one litter". Since in wolf society, only the alpha pair gets to breed, the world is full of wolves who probably feel perfectly fulfilled without having given birth. I suspect getting a second puppy when the original dog is a young, mature adult satisfies that urge as much as anything, since most wolves help rear young produced by someone other than themselves.

Anyway, sorry about the rant. I'm actually getting a new puppy soon and so the search process turned up a few people in the dog breeding money making business and it left a really bad taste in my mouth.

[PennyQuilts]

Penny, actually the real problem I see is that a lot of people want purebreds, and purebreds, because of the necessity for inbreeding at some points in time, are just far more likely to have genetic diseases that show up in the line. So, you end up with the people who cater to those who want low cost purebreds by breeding them cheaply, and they don't breed for temperament, don't take time to socialize them, don't keep them until they're 8 weeks old, etc because they can make more money doing it faster and bigger. We would be a lot better off if the inexpensive dogs were mutts or mixes, but I'm not really sure how to make that happen.

Well, there are purebreds and there are purebreds. Those (sorry if I offend) nasty little dogs that people have bred for odd reasons that, for example, lose their muzzle but still have teeth and the like are constantly fighting poor genetics because they simply are man-made mutants. Horses have been bred and routinely inbred for century upon century and you don't see the ghastly results that we see in dog mutants. And my Samoyeds are essentially the same genetic makeup as they were originally. Look it up, it is one of the things that makes them such fabulous dogs and one of the things they are known for. The risk of genetical flaws due to inbreeding is WAAAAYYYYYY overrated in your average animal that isn't being deliberately bred for some trait that nature never intended.

I am not going to go to bat for breeders who breed dogs known to be predisposed to horrible health problems. I know people love their little yappers with no sinuses, their Boxers (think cancer) and their Great Danes (think early death, bloat, bad legs), but I just am not inclined to think passing on those genes is a good idea. But for dogs that are fundamentally sound, I think responsible breeding of purebreds is the best way to maintain healthy animals.

As for your second point, you're essentially talking about puppy mills and there is so much wrong with them that I won't begin to go into it. And yes, you are correct that ignorant people who don't do their research but get a wild hair that they want a particular breed of dog because they like the look give the responsible purebred owners a bad name. But just because those yahoos are yahoos who buy from puppy mills doesn't mean the whole idea of selective, responsible breeding is bad. (the remedy there is to go after the puppy mills). By that logic, we would have to outlaw dog ownership because some idiots are poor dog owners.

It is a myth I've heard all my life that a dog will automatically be healthier if it is the result of cross breeding. That is simply not true. Not in people, not in dogs, not in horses, not in cats. What happens with inbreeding is that you are duplicating certain gene lines and there is perhaps a higher likelihood that two bad genes will pair resulting in a dog that has that characteristic. The same thing could happen with a "good" result. But the thing is, even if the dog is simply a carrier, the gene is still there with the possibility of manfesting itself down the line. Crossbreeds, as I said, hide it better, but unless dogs with that gene, recessive or no, are taken out of the gene pool, it is still there.

It is usually a better gamble to crossbreed a dog that is carrying inferior genes than to inbreed it with another dog who carries the same bad genes, but the fact is, a dog with inferior genes shouldn't be bred PERIOD. Breeding mongrels doesn't eliminate bad genes in the line - just hides them and then you don't have a clue where it will next crop up. Then you end up with no way to responsibly breed. My purebreds are tested, X-rayed and the breeders keep up with the ones they sell. I have seen whole lines of dogs taken from potential breeding stock when a single pup turned up with a genetic flaw. Once it shows up, the dog is spayed and no more from that line is bred. Moreover, a responsible breeder is going to require that unless the dog is specifically intended to be bred (and you pay for the privilege), the purebred must be spayed/neutered.

And besides, dogs from the pound regularly have poor genetics, crossbreeds or no. The notion of not keeping track of that sort of thing so that you can eliminate the possibility that bad genes would be passed down strikes me as illadvised. And the only way you can do that is through breeding purebreds where such records are kept and sound breeding practices have been followed for many generations. In the absence of purebred breeders, no one is tracking and eliminating bad genes. It is a complete free for all and the only ones breeding are the yahoos.

[Matt]

Thread title reads like something you might find in the appetizers section of a Hong Kong Applebee's menu.