Oklahoma City council, police OK new contract

[betts]

BY JOHN ESTUS The Oklahoman
Published: March 3, 2010

Oklahoma City’s long contract dispute with its police officers is over. City council members on Tuesday unanimously approved a work contract with the police union for this fiscal year, which ends June 30. The contract includes no raises for police.

The city’s negotiations with the police union broke down last year over union requests that included additional leave time and a new hire to staff the union lodge. Police never requested raises.

Last month, the union’s membership voted to roll over nearly all of the previous fiscal year’s work contract.

Only two changes differentiate this fiscal year’s work contract from last year’s: Police helicopter pilots now will receive training pay, and stepchildren, stepparents, stepsiblings and grandchildren are now considered part of a police officer’s immediate family for emergency leave purposes.



Read more: NewsOK

[Larry OKC]

I had to laugh when I read that in the paper. This is the CURRENT years contract that finally got worked out (8 months into it). Hopefully both sides are already working on the next one since it takes effect July 1...

[okcsmokeandfire]

I had to laugh when I read that in the paper. This is the CURRENT years contract that finally got worked out (8 months into it). Hopefully both sides are already working on the next one since it takes effect July 1...

Larry,

If the Police works the same way the Fire does, the city and police start negotiations 120 days prior to the end of the fiscal year.

ex. the fiscal year is July 1, 2009 thru June 30, 2010.
they would start negotiations on March 1, 2010 for the FY 10/11 contract. Hopefully it goes better for next years contracts than it has for this years contract.

[Larry OKC]

Should be some sort of requirement that these things get resolved before they take effect. If I understand it correctly, this article means the Police have been working for 8 months without a contract. Expecting any contract employee to keep working without a contract is wrong IMO. But apparently the Fire/Police can't strike so they don't have much choice in the matter.

[okcsmokeandfire]

Should be some sort of requirement that these things get resolved before they take effect. If I understand it correctly, this article means the Police have been working for 8 months without a contract. Expecting any contract employee to keep working without a contract is wrong IMO. But apparently the Fire/Police can't strike so they don't have much choice in the matter.

You understand correctly on all accounts.

[andy157]

Unless something has changed within the last two years, in all fairness to the City, to say they are working without a contract isn't actually correct. The practice of the parties has been to sign an extension of the existing contract. The extension is for as long as it takes the parties to reach a settlement, or until a arbitrator selects one of the parties last and best offers, or one of the LBO is selected by a vote of the Citizens as the contract between the City and the Firefighters. Once the new contract is reached by one of the three methods it then by statute retros back to July 1.

[Redskin 70]

Police and IFre contracts do roll forward with the new year and remain in effect until issues are resolved.

Ludicrious to think there was no contract. Even more ludicrious to think that public employees HAVE contracts in the first place.

No not really, there is a specific reason that Police and fire have contracts and that is to prevent management and elected official abuses which were so prevelant in decades past.

Some times though each side will get outrageous in their claims and practices.

[andy157]

Should be some sort of requirement that these things get resolved before they take effect. If I understand it correctly, this article means the Police have been working for 8 months without a contract. Expecting any contract employee to keep working without a contract is wrong IMO. But apparently the Fire/Police can't strike so they don't have much choice in the matter.

Larry, due to the fact that P&F by statute are not afforded the right to strike, and due to the fact that Citys get two bites at the apple, which means, if the arbitrator rules in favor of the P or F the City can take that ruling and attempt to have it overturned by a vote of the people.

However, because the City has these advantages, the Supr Court of the State of Oklahoma ruled in the case of Stone-Taylor v. Johnson and the City of OKC that Citys are bound by the duty to bargain with P&F in the utmost manor of good faith. A level that the City woefully failed to reach last year. Hence, the reason they lost, and now they want the Citizens of OKC to support their act of bad faith, now and forever, by overturning the ruling. Sadly the Citizens of OKC will do the Citys dirty work for them as the City uses the economy as cover to hide their real motives and acts of bad faith.

That is why the City wants the ruling to go away never to be seen or heard from again. If the ruling stands the City's ability to act in bad faith as a way of stripping away rights and benefits from it's employees will be greatly lessened. There is the rest of the story they hope never gets told.

[Doug Loudenback]

Since Andy157 bought me a great lunch at a meeting today at Nonna's in Bricktown I'm definitely in the pro-Fire vote if the matter comes to a public vote. Actually, it was a hot dog at Coits on South Western ... I don't get it why people think that Coits makes good dogs or burgers ... NOT. My real reasons for the pro-Fire potential vote stem back into the research done when pouring myself into the MAPS 3 vote. As strongly supportive of a Yes vote on that proposal as I eventually came to be, I am just as strongly persuaded that the city has screwed with the firefighters and blown off its existing obligations to that department for many years running. The descriptive term that comes to mind when looking over some of that history is that the city has strong signs of having a sociopath type of personality.

The pattern appears to me to be that the city takes every inch that it can from the firefighters (including improper administrative allocation and use of funds generated by the 3/4 penny sales tax), and, when called to the carpet and is shown to be doing wrong, it expresses absolutely no guilt or takes no responsibility when it does so. It does not offer to return misappropriated funds, it just promises to change its ways. That pattern of behavior bothers me a heck of a lot and causes me to respect the City Manager's office less than what I would really prefer.

But I'm done with politics for awhile after Maps 3, I promised myself ...

[okcsmokeandfire]

Unless something has changed within the last two years, in all fairness to the City, to say they are working without a contract isn't actually correct. The practice of the parties has been to sign an extension of the existing contract. The extension is for as long as it takes the parties to reach a settlement, or until a arbitrator selects one of the parties last and best offers, or one of the LBO is selected by a vote of the Citizens as the contract between the City and the Firefighters. Once the new contract is reached by one of the three methods it then by statute retros back to July 1.

Thanks for correcting me Andy, you are correct. None of those methods have changed.

[okcsmokeandfire]

Since Andy157 bought me a great lunch at a meeting today at Nonna's in Bricktown I'm definitely in the pro-Fire vote if the matter comes to a public vote. Actually, it was a hot dog at Coits on South Western ... I don't get it why people think that Coits makes good dogs or burgers ... NOT. My real reasons for the pro-Fire potential vote stem back into the research done when pouring myself into the MAPS 3 vote. As strongly supportive of a Yes vote on that proposal as I eventually came to be, I am just as strongly persuaded that the city has screwed with the firefighters and blown off its existing obligations to that department for many years running. The descriptive term that comes to mind when looking over some of that history is that the city has strong signs of having a sociopath type of personality.

The pattern appears to me to be that the city takes every inch that it can from the firefighters (including improper administrative allocation and use of funds generated by the 3/4 penny sales tax), and, when called to the carpet and is shown to be doing wrong, it expresses absolutely no guilt or takes no responsibility when it does so. It does not offer to return misappropriated funds, it just promises to change its ways. That pattern of behavior bothers me a heck of a lot and causes me to respect the City Manager's office less than what I would really prefer.

But I'm done with politics for awhile after Maps 3, I promised myself ...

Doug,

Thanks for the input and all of the research that you do, not just these police and fire topics but the many other threads as well.
Keep up the good work.

[Wambo36]

Since Andy157 bought me a great lunch at a meeting today at Nonna's in Bricktown I'm definitely in the pro-Fire vote if the matter comes to a public vote. Actually, it was a hot dog at Coits on South Western ... I don't get it why people think that Coits makes good dogs or burgers ... NOT. My real reasons for the pro-Fire potential vote stem back into the research done when pouring myself into the MAPS 3 vote. As strongly supportive of a Yes vote on that proposal as I eventually came to be, I am just as strongly persuaded that the city has screwed with the firefighters and blown off its existing obligations to that department for many years running. The descriptive term that comes to mind when looking over some of that history is that the city has strong signs of having a sociopath type of personality.

The pattern appears to me to be that the city takes every inch that it can from the firefighters (including improper administrative allocation and use of funds generated by the 3/4 penny sales tax), and, when called to the carpet and is shown to be doing wrong, it expresses absolutely no guilt or takes no responsibility when it does so. It does not offer to return misappropriated funds, it just promises to change its ways. That pattern of behavior bothers me a heck of a lot and causes me to respect the City Manager's office less than what I would really prefer.

But I'm done with politics for awhile after Maps 3, I promised myself ...

Thank you Doug for doing a little research and looking at it with an open mind. That's all we're asking.

[OKCGUY3]

Doug, I appreciate your willingness to have an open mind and look at things for what they are, rather than what you may want them to be. It is unfortunaltely dissappointing to see how some things are done within a City that we all want to succeed. With that said, I have to ask myself, why aren't any of the other people on OKCTALK that lauded your input throughout the maps 3 campaign not commenting on your renewed viewpoint? Midtowner, Penny, Betts, Hoya, PC, what is your take on this?

[betts]

Maybe we're tired of someone jumping down our throats when we offer a different viewpoint. Or tired of it getting this much attention when there are lots of other people in different departments in the same boat. There's really no one regular on this thread who is willing to listen to anyone other than people who agree with them. Someone having an "open mind" to you all means they agree with you. That's probably true on a lot of issues, which is why you get the same people posting over and over again on certain topics.

I've said repeatedly that I'm fine with the fire and police departments getting more money (or more jobs, since they require money) and I have no problem with a tax increase as long as the departments aren't top heavy in administration and don't have redundancies already. I would like the departments to take a long and hard look at what they've got already and make sure they're using personnel efficiently. I've heard things from people who've worked for both those departments that make me suspect that's not the case. And now I've said my piece, I'm sure I'll get blasted for it,and I'll again stop reading this thread. Don't know why I opened it today anyway, since I'm in the habit of not doing so.

[Doug Loudenback]

OKCGuy3, I can't speak for anyone else, but, for me, the Maps 3 stuff was exhausting and largely prevented me from doing what I really do enjoy. I found little pleasure or satisfaction in what I did, plenty of frustration, though. The only reason that I became ridiculously involved was my sense of the importance of Maps 3. Hopefully, that won't happen again. I'm still feeling worn out from doing Maps3. Quite possibly others feel the same way.

[Laramie]

Doug:

When I was a teacher at Southeast High School in the 70's, I took a business class on a field trip to Harris Meat-Packing Company; after seeing the process for making hotdogs and related items, I was determined that I ate my last Ball Park frank.

Coits on south Western does have some great Hamburgers.

[OKCGUY3]

Doug, I agree the Maps campaigne was exhausting and confrontational to some point. I am glad it is over as well and hope that the projects succeed brilliantly. Betts,(if you read this), I wasn't jumping down anyon'e throat or suggesting that your point of view is wrong. I was just asking what you think about the new information that is presented by Doug. Correct me if I am wrong, but Doug isn't a Fireman singing the same old song, so I figured this would create a new perspective. You or anyone can have a different viewpoint on any subject and that should be respected.

[Doug Loudenback]

Actually, I wasn't presenting any new information, or, at least, I don't think so. I'm pretty sure that I discussed this much earlier during the Maps 3 campaign. I haven't looked, but I'm pretty sure that I did. No, I'm not a fireman.