Midtown

[warreng88]

Oklahoma City Midtown neighborhood enters time of Renaissance
BY STEVE LACKMEYER The Oklahoman
Published: February 11, 2010

For the past two years Bob Howard and Mickey Clagg have stayed quiet about their plans for MidTown Renaissance — an ambitious neighborhood-wide makeover started by their former partner Greg Banta.

On Tuesday the silence ended with Howard and Clagg showing off their first completed apartments and offices for lease at NW 12 and Francis.

The pair said the corner will be a market test for how they proceed with redevelopment of their other 30 properties. After successfully developing a string of restaurants and shops at NW 10 and Walker, they’re hoping to learn from the first apartments and offices at NW 12 and Francis what will work best throughout the rest of the neighborhood.

Read the rest of Steve's article at:

NewsOK

[BoulderSooner]

I thought it was a good article.

R.D. Smith of Corsair Cattle Co a "Downtown Developer" = wow.

who do you think developed plaza court and some of the original leases before selling it all to midtown ren.

[metro]

Went to the U.N. social last night and toured the 3 new MidTown properties. Very nice finishes for the most part. I think they will lease out quick, but the price points are on the high end, I think the cheapest start at like $800-$900 but most were more than that. I got flyers that I'll try to scan in soon.

[George]

Regarding the three Midtown properties, here are links to the flyers.

905 NW 12th: http://midtownr.com/pdf/905.pdf
909 NW 12th: http://midtownr.com/pdf/909.pdf
1217 N Francis: http://midtownr.com/pdf/1217.pdf

[metro]

Thanks George, can you post prices for each of the properties?

[George]

Metro, you're welcome. Sorry I don't have the prices. (I just found the flyers on the Midtown Renaissance site while checking for more information after the open house.)

[PLANSIT]

$1.25 per sqft. Smaller units (800 sqft) start at $950, larger units run about $1550. Little high IMO.

[metro]

Some of them were like $1750-$1850. I thought it was a little high, but the finishes are nice. They are going to make a killing off rent. I added it up to about $6500/mo for the 4 unit building.

[benman]

soooo they are remodeled houses.... cool, and im glad they have been remodeled, but not that big of a deal for midtown if you ask me. Yes, I know they are testing the market for bigger and better things to come/Im sure they will be 100% leased, but midtown will be never be that exciting if its just a bunch of old remodeled houses thats called "midtown" and considered the "vibrant" area.

[metro]

2 of them are remodeled houses, one of them is a 4 story what was probably an old multi-unit housing, hotel or office building originally.

[soonerhcf]

I don't know if I'd consider $1.25 too high for what you're getting there. I asked them last night if there were any "mandatory" other costs (i.e. flat utility fee, parking) like you get at Park Harvey and others. I don't really think that the flat utility fee is a fair deal. I'm hardly home and I pay the same rate as my gamer neighbor who is running like 12 computers at once. NOT FAIR! The MidtownR lady said there is a $25/month fee that would cover water, sewer, and trash and that you would deal directly with OG&E, Cox, and/or AT&T for the other stuff. My total would definitely be less than $125/month or whatever craziness I currently pay. These units are really decked out, and I'll try to move there when my lease expires in summer (assuming there is vacancy).

[soonerhcf]

Metro: Not to be the correction police, but none of them are remodeled houses. They told me last night that one of two story buildings is a duplex and was historically a duplex. One is an 8plex that was historically a several unit apartment building. And the other building, the brick one, is a 3 story, 6 unit building that historically had several units, too.

[Steve]

who do you think developed plaza court and some of the original leases before selling it all to midtown ren.

Greg Banta developed Plaza Court. And it's revisionist history to say anything else.
The Smith brothers used some bombing recovery money to do some basic renovations and then signed a lease with Subway. They then sold it to Banta, who about that time was bringing in Howard and Clagg as partners.
Irmas, the YMCA, McNellies, Prairie Thunder were all Banta deals.

[BoulderSooner]

Greg Banta developed Plaza Court. And it's revisionist history to say anything else.
The Smith brothers used some bombing recovery money to do some basic renovations and then signed a lease with Subway. They then sold it to Banta, who about that time was bringing in Howard and Clagg as partners.
Irmas, the YMCA, McNellies, Prairie Thunder were all Banta deals.

sorry but the mcnellies lease was already a verbal agreement before the building was sold to banta

[Spartan]

That doesn't even make sense if you discount the role Greg Banta played. The Smith/Corsair folks are just slum lords..

$950 for 800 sf is a GREAT deal for RENTAL in DOWNTOWN especially. In the suburbs can't you expect to pay $400 for about 400 sf of crappy apartment? I know I pay a lot more for a small 400 sf apartment outside DT Calgary.

In case anyone was wondering, 16 units altogether, not bad..

[wsucougz]

In case anyone was wondering, 16 units altogether, not bad..

I thought there were 6 units coming on - 2 in each building, unless I'm misunderstanding you.

[Steve]

bouldersooner, maybe there was a verbal understanding, but that's it.
Spartan isn't alone in his feelings about the Smith brothers. Now here's the development track record for the Smiths. I'll be happy to hear how it's challenged:
The Packard Building. 201 NW 10. The Smiths sat on it for 7 years, made no visible improvements. It was boarded up with plywood painted blue. And then they sold it off for $5 million than what they paid for it. (Source: county assessor)
The Smiths have a similar track record with properties like the old office supply store on Main Street and more. I know of several prominent downtown folks who tried to buy the historic Main Street Arcade and were devastated when the Smiths bought it. Why is that? It's because they tend to sit on their properties and only sell for a price that makes redeveloping their troubled buildings harder to rehabilitate. That's the view shared by most if not every leading downtowner.
I'm ready to hear an argument as to how the Smiths have a track record of making downtown better - how they are truly developers and not simply flippers who sap strength from the downtown market.

[George]

Quick point on 201 NW 10th: this property was part of a package sale, so the ~$5 mil sales price covers, I believe, over 8 other tracts of land in addition to 201 NW 10th.

[Steve]

Thanks George. Still curious to see an example of where the Smiths have bought an old property, rehabed it with their own money, and then brought back life to it.
I'm curious as to whether people believe flipping is the same as developing.

[bluedogok]

Flippers usually stagnate development, so they tend to be the opposite of developers, they tend to want too much for their properties either in a resale or lease situation. They are nothing more than profiteers which for the most part I hope they lose their rears on those type of "investments".

[Larry OKC]

That doesn't even make sense if you discount the role Greg Banta played. The Smith/Corsair folks are just slum lords..

$950 for 800 sf is a GREAT deal for RENTAL in DOWNTOWN especially. In the suburbs can't you expect to pay $400 for about 400 sf of crappy apartment? I know I pay a lot more for a small 400 sf apartment outside DT Calgary.

In case anyone was wondering, 16 units altogether, not bad..

My 2 bed/bath is 960sf and runs me right @ $550/month 9this is including the "mandatory" shared water/trash pickup flat fee & mandatory renters liability insurance)...so $950 for 800sf seems rather steep to me (nearly double the cost for less sf). My apt is an older one across street from Deaconess Hosp (nw 54th & Portland). Not the Ritz but not a dump either. The finishes could be upgraded for sure but at what cost? If granite counter tops or being "downtown" are that important to you and you can afford it, then by all means, go for it. I wouldn't avoid living downtown, but there isn't a reason to live there either (my job is just off Broadway Ext, near Edmond). Just not for me.

[Spartan]

I thought there were 6 units coming on - 2 in each building, unless I'm misunderstanding you.

Well I just got 16 by looking at the pdf fliers for each of the buildings, posted on the 1st page.

905 NW 12th: http://midtownr.com/pdf/905.pdf
909 NW 12th: http://midtownr.com/pdf/909.pdf
1217 N Francis: http://midtownr.com/pdf/1217.pdf

[wsucougz]

I stand corrected. That's a pretty good chunk of space.

Well I just got 16 by looking at the pdf fliers for each of the buildings, posted on the 1st page.

905 NW 12th: http://midtownr.com/pdf/905.pdf
909 NW 12th: http://midtownr.com/pdf/909.pdf
1217 N Francis: http://midtownr.com/pdf/1217.pdf

[metro]

My 2 bed/bath is 960sf and runs me right @ $550/month 9this is including the "mandatory" shared water/trash pickup flat fee & mandatory renters liability insurance)...so $950 for 800sf seems rather steep to me (nearly double the cost for less sf). My apt is an older one across street from Deaconess Hosp (nw 54th & Portland). Not the Ritz but not a dump either. The finishes could be upgraded for sure but at what cost? If granite counter tops or being "downtown" are that important to you and you can afford it, then by all means, go for it. I wouldn't avoid living downtown, but there isn't a reason to live there either (my job is just off Broadway Ext, near Edmond). Just not for me.

Downtown/Urban living isn't for everyone, and clearly you're not one of those people. $550/mo is cheap for Oklahoma Larry, let alone anywhere else in the country. Just because it's not for you, don't knock it. Crappy outdated apartment living in suburbia isn't for me or Spartan, but you don't hear us knocking it in a thread on urban development.

[circuitboard]

Downtown/Urban living isn't for everyone, and clearly you're not one of those people. $550/mo is cheap for Oklahoma Larry, let alone anywhere else in the country. Just because it's not for you, don't knock it. Crappy outdated apartment living in suburbia isn't for me or Spartan, but you don't hear us knocking it in a thread on urban development.

LOL sorry but I had to say something, 54th and Portland is suburbia?