Looting in New Orleans

[Dungeon Master]

I am sure sooner than later the NRA will make the case that they are needed for hunting rabbit or quail. I wouldn't give up hope.

Well, those little rascals are growing bigger it seems with each generation. It's gotta be the new and improved fertilizer.

[Curt]

I am sure sooner than later the NRA will make the case that they are needed for hunting rabbit or quail. I wouldn't give up hope.

Thank GOD for the NRA, I am a proud member and proud to be able to own my firearms, and happy I have the right to carry.

[PUGalicious]

Thank GOD or thank GOP?

Based on the teachings of His Son, I'm not sure God wants to be thanked for the actions of the NRA to arm more people. I don't think His solution is for more people to have the power to make foolish decisions with deadly consequences.

And given some of the comments that have been made in the post, I'm glad that more people haven't chosen or been able to exercise that "right."

[Dungeon Master]

Thank GOD or thank GOP?

Based on the teachings of His Son, I'm not sure God wants to be thanked for the actions of the NRA to arm more people. I don't think His solution is for more people to have the power to make foolish decisions with deadly consequences.

And given some of the comments that have been made in the post, I'm glad that more people haven't chosen or been able to exercise that "right."

Scribe, you gotta relax man. Venting on-line helps to keep the gun in the safe (sometimes).

[sweetdaisy]

While I am not a big fan of guns in general, you can bet I wouldn't hesitate to shoot someone who was trying to shoot me.

I agree not all of the looters are shooters, and they need to be dealt with in another manner. But the ones who are shooting at medics and hospitals and people who are trying to help? You can bet I'd set them in my crosshairs. And I think I might use something a little more powerful than a rubberband gun.

[sweetdaisy]

Scribe, you gotta relax man. Venting on-line helps to keep the gun in the safe (sometimes).

[Dungeon Master]

New Orleans in Anarchy With Fights, RapesNew Orleans descended into anarchy Thursday, as corpses lay abandoned in street medians, fights and fires broke out and storm survivors battled for seats on the buses that would carry them away from the chaos. The tired and hungry seethed, saying they had been forsaken. "This is a desperate SOS," mayor Ray Nagin said.

So will I offend anybody if I say

"SHOOT THE RAPISTS"?

or is that not right too?

[Curt]

So will I offend anybody if I say

"SHOOT THE RAPISTS"?

or is that not right too?

Wont offend me.

Shoot the looters that are shooting at the rescue workers.

[Curt]

Scribe, you gotta relax man. Venting on-line helps to keep the gun in the safe (sometimes).

Thank you!!!!!!!!!

[Karried]

I never thought I would say this but at this point I might agree with shooting the rapists and the snipers shooting at hospital patients - what the heck is that all about?

I can't believe how bad this has gotten. Is anyone as amazed as I am by the images of third world country gone wrong, in our own backyard? I never thought I would see this and never imagined how terrible it could really become.

[Curt]

I never thought I would say this but at this point I might agree with shooting the rapists and the snipers shooting at hospital patients - what the heck is that all about?

I can't believe how bad this has gotten. Is anyone as amazed as I am by the images of third world country gone wrong, in our own backyard? I never thought I would see this and never imagined how terrible it could really become.

Karrie, we really dont need people like that in our society anyways. I am totally disgusted at what is going on down there.

[Dungeon Master]

Karrie, we really dont need people like that in our society anyways. I am totally disgusted at what is going on down there.

That is true mariner62. And Karried made a good point.

The act of either is not what most of us like to hear. Set the example and get rid of the problem before it gets rid of us (or at least makes our lives worse).

There is no reason for rape PERIOD!!! And if you argue that remark, you are sick and need to be
SHOT

[Curt]

That is true mariner62. And Karried made a good point.

The act of either is not what most of us like to hear. Set the example and get rid of the problem before it gets rid of us (or at least makes our lives worse).

There is no reason for rape PERIOD!!! And if you argue that remark, you are sick and need to be
SHOT

Thank you again, there is NEVER a good excuse for rape. I personally have no use for someone that would do such a thing and they need to be shot, PERIOD.

[sweetdaisy]

but, but, but...

...what about due process????

[Dungeon Master]

but, but, but...

...what about due process????

Good point sweetdaisy. In my mind (and others I'm sure), that was due process. And again, if anyone feels differently, get in line.

[Curt]

but, but, but...

...what about due process????

All my cop buddies will even tell ya, there is no due process.

[Didaskalos]

All my cop buddies will even tell ya, there is no due process.

I find it amazing that there are so many who are glib about the idea of due process. Borrowing from Wikipedia Due process exists "in order to guarantee fundamental fairness, justice, and liberty"

Fairness, Justice and Liberty be damned - those with the guns have the power and they get to decide Fairness and Justice.

The irony is that most arguing this point will gladly point out that their right to bear arms is guaranteed in the Bill of Rights. Lest they forget that Due process is found in that same Bill of Rights.

Ok, you all have compelled me... shred the Bill of Rights down to only the right to bear arms part and lets just all shoot it out. Sounds reasonable.

[Didaskalos]

but, but, but...

...what about due process????

sweetdaisy, I would actually like to hear your position on due process. Is there ever a time for it? Is it time to repeal the 5th amendment?

You know to the fundamentalists in the late 1600's burning people at the stake based purely on suspicion and accusation was pretty effective at reducing evil. Perhaps it is time we go back to guilty and dead until proven innocent (oops).

[Didaskalos]

Thank GOD for the NRA, I am a proud member and proud to be able to own my firearms, and happy I have the right to carry.

It is comforting to know the kind hearterd, people loving and tolerant members of the NRA are armed and ready to kill anyone who acts in a manner they might not like. I am sure that is what Madison had in mind.

[Didaskalos]

Scribe, you gotta relax man. Venting on-line helps to keep the gun in the safe (sometimes).

Yeah Scribe... the teachings of God have nothing to do with thanking Him for the right to carry out reactionary violence in his name.

Wait, was he the one who said "For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks"? Thank GOD he didn't really mean that when it comes to talking about shooting looters. I think what he meant to say is please overflow so you can keep your gunsafe closed.

Those teachings are always so difficult to understand without context. Of course this is the same God who said "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you". Obviously looting wasn't the problem then that it is today.

[PUGalicious]

Scribe, you gotta relax man. Venting on-line helps to keep the gun in the safe (sometimes).

Relax? Perhaps you're right. I always find myself uneasy when trigger-happy, simple-minded vigilantes want to destroy the constitutional freedoms and protections that make us the civilized, educated and virtuous society that (I thought) America was — the values that (I thought) made this country great and (I thought) an example for other nations.

A society without due process is either anarchy or fascism. With humanity's prolific history of mistaken judgments (both in the judicial system with wrongful convictions and in hasty decisions to take lethal action that prove later to be unwarranted or unjustified), an ethical and civilized society allows for a due process of accusation and defense, and a fair weighing of the evidence, to try to protect people who are wrongfully accused.

Due process does not mean escape from punishment. It's an exercise to ensure that the right person is convicted of a crime; it's the only way real justice can be served.

A "shoot first, then ask questions" mentality is barbaric, ignorant and inhuman.

Equally disconcerting is the devolution of a discussion (when one's argument is shown to be untenable or foolish) to unfairly ascribing absurd positions to those challenging one's viewpoint. To say that those who support due process (and see it as a vital pillar to a civilized society) are soft on violent crimes like rape is not only inane but is also abhorrent.

In my mind, rape is ever bit as serious as murder. Punishment for rape should be among the most severe. BUT, the accused has a right to his (or her) day in court to defend against the allegations. How many people have been falsely accused of rape? We've had several cases in recent years here in Oklahoma alone. Had these falsely accused men been subject to the standards of justice advocated by others in this thread, they would have been shot dead — and wrongly so. As I've said before, you can overturn a conviction, but you can't overturn an executed death sentence.

Those who are shooting at anyone else (whether it's aimed at the police, at rescue workers or innocent people) have to be dealt with as an immediate threat. If there is an imminent threat to the lives of others, whatever force is necessary to stop that should be utilized (up to and including lethal force).

I'm not saying looters should be let alone to do anything. I am saying lethal force is beyond reasonable when we're simply talking about property — things that can be replaced.

I'm always sickened anytime someone tries to take advantage of a tragedy — but that includes profiteering as well as looters. But I also don't classify as looters those desperate people in devastating circumstances simply trying to find food, water, shelter and clothing for survival.

Relax? I can't relax as long as I see so much suffering in New Orleans and the neighboring cities and communities, and then hearing some respond to the unbelievable images and stories with calls to "shoot the looters" rather than trying to understand what drives so many people to take such "outrageous" actions. Without walking in their shoes, we cannot understand. It's easy to pass judgment in the relative comfort of our distant, safe homes.

Order needs to be restored, but that can only happen with sufficient resources, something the government seems slow to respond with. But a rational perspective should trump reactionary vigilantism that metes out harsh punishment with little regard for fairness or justice.

[Didaskalos]

Very well stated Scribe! I thought rational thought had been blown away with all the shooting and potentially guilty lying in their pools of blood waiting to be mirandized.

[Karried]

Come on, you know we are dealing with unusual and extraordinary times.
New Orleans issued a shoot to kill this morning - sad but true.

We are all thoroughly disgusted and sickened by what is going on - you know all of us are reacting to the horrors that we are seeing day and night. These victimes just survived a CAT 5 hurricane, lost everything and now are getting shot and raped....

A sniper ( read that again, a freakin sniper) prevented a hospital from being evacuated after doctors carried patients up nine floors of stairs... they had to turn around and go back in - patients later died.

An eye for an eye.

Stop taking comments that are being made currently (while our citizens just suffering the worst imaginable circumstances), as the way most of us think on a daily basis.

It's not a time to debate the NRA or due process as if we are talking about a normal day in our nation - it's time to help these people and if some of us are really pissed off at people who are preventing these poor people from getting help because the emergency personnel are being shot at - so be it.

Your arguments are valid but take it in the way it is delivered, out of anger and frustration towards these evil people.

You know we aren't advocating walking downtown OKC and shooting people - we are venting and reacting with feelings of helplessness and rage toward people who are preventing help getting to these sick disadvantaged people.

[sweetdaisy]

I actually believe strongly in due process. However, "civilized" society no longer exists in New Orleans. People are being hurt down there by bands of misfits wreaking havoc on people who are just trying to live. I don't believe every criminal sould be shot. I've never said that, so don't direct your preaching at me.

My feelings on this are that if someone is caught in the act of shooting at innocents or raping people, they should be shot. That's not a simple accusation. It's being caught. There is absolutely no excuse for their behavior. If they want to hinder the relief, then get them out of the way. The poor police have enough to deal with already.

sweetdaisy, I would actually like to hear your position on due process. Is there ever a time for it? Is it time to repeal the 5th amendment?


You know to the fundamentalists in the late 1600's burning people at the stake based purely on suspicion and accusation was pretty effective at reducing evil. Perhaps it is time we go back to guilty and dead until proven innocent (oops).

[Dungeon Master]

Relax? Perhaps you're right. I always find myself uneasy when trigger-happy, simple-minded vigilantes want to destroy the constitutional freedoms...

Hey, I didn't say totear up the bill of rights.

In my mind, rape is ever bit as serious as murder. Punishment for rape should be among the most severe.

You are right. Shoot em. I mean, shoot em is the most severe isn't it?

Those who are shooting at anyone else (whether it's aimed at the police, at rescue workers or innocent people) have to be dealt with as an immediate threat.

Need I say more? I'm glad you feel the same way too.

I'm not saying looters should be let alone to do anything. I am saying lethal force is beyond reasonable when we're simply talking about property — things that can be replaced.

Go tell the looters and snipers that.

Relax? I can't relax as long as I see so much suffering in New Orleans and the neighboring cities and communities...

Then you haven't relaxed in your whole life time because all this has been going on all around the world for a very long time. Not just New Orleans.

Order needs to be restored....

Your right. Shoot em