Public safety #1

[rcjunkie]

Not sure about budget cuts per See, but the past 3 or 4 years now the City's budget was described as being "tight" and "stand still". From what I have read in the City's budget reports, any increases in revenue essentially go to pay for increased costs of all city personnel (salaries, benefits, etc and the most recent culprit was rising fuel costs). Now that the City has been experiencing a steady double digit decline in tax revenues for nearly the entire year, obviously there isn't increased revenue to keep up with the expenses much less to pay for what was current...thus the across the board declines and recently reported probable furloughs.

You are correct, the ever rising employee costs can not be sustained without cuts. Listed below are increases to this years departmental budgets just to cover personnel (Pay plan adjustments, merit raises, Health Insurance)

Airports 182,000
City Auditor 33,000
City Clerk 12,700
City Managers Office 212,000
Finance 258,000
Fire 1,955,000
General Services 123,000
Information Technology 313,000
Mayor / Council 24,000
Municipal Counselor 119,000
Municipal Courts 136,000
Parks and Rec. 487,000
Planning 112,580
Personnel 81,000
Police 3,550,000
Public Works 1,400,000
Water Utilities 788,000
Wastewater Utilities 459,999
Solid Waste 139,000

Add to this the increase in utilities (gas, electric, water/sewer) increase in equipment and supplies, there's no way to avoid deep cuts with these types of increases. On the bright side, the fuel costs have declined considerably since last budget cycle, projections were made when fuel was over $3.00 a gallon.

[Mikemarsh51]

According to Jim Couch, with the budget being approved at somewhere around $823,000.000.00, his statement during the council meeting of 1/5/10 that our fund balance was a little above 10%. That means the city has around $85,000,000.00 sitting in the bank, basically unaccounted for. Why are we cutting jobs when there should be enough in reserve to get through these tough economic times.

[LakeEffect]

According to Jim Couch, with the budget being approved at somewhere around $823,000.000.00, his statement during the council meeting of 1/5/10 that our fund balance was a little above 10%. That means the city has around $85,000,000.00 sitting in the bank, basically unaccounted for. Why are we cutting jobs when there should be enough in reserve to get through these tough economic times.

We've only had 1 layoff so far... and this is hopefully what Council will consider when voting on the budget this year. If each Department submits a 12% cut plan, maybe Council will agree that some services are necessary and they'll need to dig into the fund balance. I'm not suggesting they should, but it might be an option. It's too early to tell...

[Steve]

Agreed OKC has survived quite nicely compared to others so far. But I saw that presentation Cafe. Unless there's a miracle recovery by summer, pain is coming. If I heard correctly they're already digging into fund balance and they're not going live on the edge again as they did in the '80s. Mike, that fund balance is important to maintaining the city's bond rating and I doubt the city is eager to deplete it.

[LakeEffect]

Agreed OKC has survived quite nicely compared to others so far. But I saw that presentation Cafe. Unless there's a miracle recovery by summer, pain is coming. If I heard correctly they're already digging into fund balance and they're not going live on the edge again as they did in the '80s. Mike, that fund balance is important to maintaining the city's bond rating and I doubt the city is eager to deplete it.

Oh, I agree, but I also say it's too early to start claiming any one department is going to be hurt or saved...

[Steve]

I hear all of the assistant city planners will get the axe first.

[LakeEffect]

I hear all of the assistant city planners will get the axe first.

Crap. Good think I've worked making pizza and changing tires/oil before. Always gotta have the fall back.

[Larry OKC]

Would it be possible for many of these positions that may get cut, just transfer over to the people that are going to be needed with the various MAPS 3 projects?

[LakeEffect]

Would it be possible for many of these positions that may get cut, just transfer over to the people that are going to be needed with the various MAPS 3 projects?

That's what may be happening. If you look at the list of Departments that had cuts, you'll notice Planning wasn't on it. Some positions can directly charge back to GO Bond projects, MAPS projects, TIF projects, and Federally-funded projects/positions. The Community Development division on Planning (about 12 people) is almost completely (if not completely) funded via federal funds. Other Planning staff often help out with the initial stages of the types of projects mentioned above, so their general fund pay is not 100%, which counts as a budget reduction.

When MAPS 3 begins, staff from Planning, Public Works, and Finance (mainly) will probably begin charging time to that. I have no idea what Mr. Couch intends to do with staff - maybe Steve knows. I don't know if they plan a MAPS 3 office, something like the current MAPS for Kids office, or if they'll just use existing staff in their existing positions.

[Mikemarsh51]

Here's an update-

3 ladders at the shop for repairs, RL16, RL25 and RL34. RL6 is out of service at an engine shop, RL6 is in an old Squad vehicle that has no ladders on it. We are down to 3 reserve ladders now. The 1985 RL109 was removed from the fleet. RL118 is in service as RL25 and was informed not to use the aerial device. Estimated repairs to RL16 to repair it to the level that it can be tested to see if it passes certification to be climbed is $68,000.00. Cost to repair RL25 to the point it can be tested is $56,000.00. I did not hear an estimate to repair RL34. Again the $3,200,000.00 to purchase 4 new Ladders was loaned to SMG to pay for upgrades for a hockey team that as of yet doesn't exist.

[okcsmokeandfire]

Here's an update-

3 ladders at the shop for repairs, RL16, RL25 and RL34. RL6 is out of service at an engine shop, RL6 is in an old Squad vehicle that has no ladders on it. We are down to 3 reserve ladders now. The 1985 RL109 was removed from the fleet. RL118 is in service as RL25 and was informed not to use the aerial device. Estimated repairs to RL16 to repair it to the level that it can be tested to see if it passes certification to be climbed is $68,000.00. Cost to repair RL25 to the point it can be tested is $56,000.00. I did not hear an estimate to repair RL34. Again the $3,200,000.00 to purchase 4 new Ladders was loaned to SMG to pay for upgrades for a hockey team that as of yet doesn't exist.

This is insane Mike, I sure hope that someone on the southeast, southwest or northwest sides of OKC does not need the services of a rescue ladder anytime soon......

If we were to have an apartment fire, or structure fire 2 stories or greater, and an occupants means of egress were to be blocked, their only other choice would be to come out a window, we would need the services of a rescue ladder. By the way this has happened many times over the last 30 years in OKC.

Those ladders not only help us to assist the public with rescue from a burning building, they also assist the firefighters with a safer ascent to the top of buildings in order to perform vertical ventilation (the process of creating an opening on the roof of a building to remove hot gases, as well as smoke from a building, in order to create a better environment inside the building.

This better environment will assist us in locating possible trapped occupants and it also assists us in attacking the fire. It enhances our visibility inside a building from nothing to a little something. In a structure fire, you cannot see your hand in front of your face. You have very limited visibility, most of the time your vision will allow you to see at the floor level to about 2 feet off of the floor, the remaining area above 2' to the ceiling is hotter than hell and dark thick black smoke that light will not pass through much less your vision. This is why vertical ventilation is the most important thing a rescue ladder does at a fire scene. It helps to remove this heat and smoke through the roof of the building. It is the catalyst that allows all of the other aspects of firefighting to happen, ex. advance hoselines, fire attacks, search and rescue, etc.

Is anyone getting the picture yet? These are not just big trucks with a bunch of crap loaded on them, operated by a bunch of uneducated people as many of you probably think. These rescue ladders perform vital functions on all fire alarms, car wrecks, search and rescue, rope assisted tasks, just to mention a few. We need rescue ladders that are safe and that operate, so that we can serve the public. Many of the ones we have in OKC have been in service since 1990 to 1995 and they are worn out to say the least. I would hate to see a citizen, group of citizens, or a firefighter lose their lives because we are operating in substandard, worn out, test failing rescue ladders. But that may be what it takes to get the proper attention that this deserves. I sure hope not.....

[tehvipir]

Dont forget ladder 18. It is the newest victim to the shop. they are now is a squad. so we have ladder 22, 15, 30, 1, 14 running out of firstline ladders out of 13. also in my area of the city Engine 17 is in OLD E9, E11 is in OLD 18, Eninge 18 is in OLD 105 Engine 10 is in OLD 500 ( the training enigne) thats a big part of a city in reserve rigs. not to mention that E18(used by E11) has NO rig radio. only communication is on handheld radios and i am sure there is more like that.

[Mikemarsh51]

RL16 needs a new engine, that is an additional $20,000.00. For Total of $88,000.00

[okcsmokeandfire]

Rescue ladder 9 and 14, were tested yesterday at the maintenance shop by an independent 3 party. They both failed the test. RL-9 had to leave their rig at the maintenance shop and trade into an old squad. RL-14 failed, but it will not need as many repairs as RL-9.

So here is our Rescue ladder status as of today.

Out of service: due to mechanical failure, ladder testing failure, not safe for driving on road, etc.

RL-6, RL-9, RL-14, RL-16, RL-18, RL-25, RL-34.


Still in service because they have been refurbished recently:
RL-1, RL-7, RL-15, RL-30,

RL-22 bought new a 4-5 years ago is still in service.

RL-31 is still in service but has not been tested yet.

7 of the 13 rescue ladders protecting OKC are out of service.

More than likely it will be 8 of 13 when RL-31 is tested, since it has similiar wear and tear as the others that were purchased in 1995.

The ladders that were purchased in 1995 are as follows:
RL-9, RL-14, RL-16, RL-18, RL-22, RL-25, RL-31 and RL-34.

Of these the only one that has been replaced with a new one since then is RL-22, which has been about 4-5 years ago. The other 7 are worn out and are in need of replacement.

[Steve]

How would this fleet status report compare to one from 10 years ago?

[rcjunkie]

Public Safety (Police and Fire) accounts for 65% of OKC's General Fund Budget and they have a 3/4 cent dedicated sales tax.
What more do they need/want ?

[Mikemarsh51]

Junkie- The same signed contract we have with the city that says we are not allowed to strike, also says the city will provide us with safe operational equipment. What is your point about 65%?

[Mikemarsh51]

Steve, 10 years ago the fleet was in fairly good shape. The Simon/LTI ladders that are in such poor shape now were still fairly new. That is also about the time that Garry Marrs decided that it was a good idea to remove the Rescue Squads from service. We had six located around the city. They carried alot of equipment and had specific functions. Garry Marrs got rid of them and piled all of the equipment on our truck companies and renamed the Rescue Ladders.

The Squads were smaller vehicles that made alot of calls. We are now seeing the aftermath of his idea with these Rescue ladders being vehicles of approx. 70,000 pounds being absolutely worn out.

[rcjunkie]

Junkie- The same signed contract we have with the city that says we are not allowed to strike, also says the city will provide us with safe operational equipment. What is your point about 65%?

Point is, Police and Fire are adequately funded, it's a matter of prioritizing, spending money appropriately and improving equipment maintenance programs.

[okcsmokeandfire]

Public Safety (Police and Fire) accounts for 65% of OKC's General Fund Budget and they have a 3/4 cent dedicated sales tax.
What more do they need/want ?

RC,

We need the 4 rescue ladders that were axed for an apparent hockey team loan. Correct if I am wrong, but isnt that $ 3.2 million dollars (originally going to purchase 4 new rescue ladders) later to be diverted as a loan to a hockey team, supposed to be paid back to the city with interest.

If in fact that is the case, then why didnt we just loan this money to the hockey team out of the rainy day fund since it is going to be repaid with interest. Then take the money that we were supposed to purchase the new ladders with originally and simply purchase them.

I have read that if we did this, then somehow our bond rating would be affected. We have over $ 85 million dollars in the rainy day fund, over 10% of our whole citys yearly budget. How in the world is a measly $ 3.2 million dollars (that is going to be repaid with interest) going to amount to a hill of beans out of $ 85 million.

I again will restate that all we as a fire and police dept desire is adequate staffing and dependable equipment to meet the needs of the citizens of OKC.
Nothing more and nothing less.

If 65% of the city budget and a dedicated 3/4 cent sales tax cannot get this for public safety, then we definitely need to look at other alternatives as a permanent funding source. Anything less is not in the best interest of the citizens of OKC.

[Mikemarsh51]

Junkie, one of the problems with you having been in management is that you don't have a clue. Did they give you a crystal ball when you quit? I am just not sure how you have all of the answers about our funding, you were in charge of getting the grass mowed, right?

[andy157]

Public Safety (Police and Fire) accounts for 65% of OKC's General Fund Budget and they have a 3/4 cent dedicated sales tax.
What more do they need/want ?

First of all, Public Safety isn't just Police and Fire. Municipal Courts, and Animal Welfare are also part of, and included in, Public Safety, but somehow that fact always seems to get omitted. Secondly, I would like to see how they come up with the 65% number they claim.

[andy157]

Public Safety (Police and Fire) accounts for 65% of OKC's General Fund Budget and they have a 3/4 cent dedicated sales tax.
What more do they need/want ?

They need equipment that works and operates in a safe manor. They want the 948 Firefighter positions that the Citizens demanded and are paying extra for, and that are called for in the Journal Entry of Judgement, as ordered by a District Court Judge. It's really not that complicated.

[Larry OKC]

We need the 4 rescue ladders that were axed for an apparent hockey team loan. Correct if I am wrong, but isnt that $ 3.2 million dollars (originally going to purchase 4 new rescue ladders) later to be diverted as a loan to a hockey team, supposed to be paid back to the city with interest.

I hadn't heard that it was a loan at all but the City was flat out paying for it. May be wrong on that...

[rcjunkie]

Junkie, one of the problems with you having been in management is that you don't have a clue. Did they give you a crystal ball when you quit? I am just not sure how you have all of the answers about our funding, you were in charge of getting the grass mowed, right?

The last time I checked, this was an opinion thread, and what I'm doing is posting my "Management" opinion.
I know several that work inside City Hall, in the Finance Department, and the wife of one of my close friends is a purchaser for the Fire Dept. so I gain information from several sources, none of which is a crystal ball.