Whole Foods

[JerzeeGrlinOKC]

For a business such as a grocery store to come into an area, it is far more efficient for them to come in with several stores and a distribution center. Especially in this economy, I don't see many chain grocers willing to pony up the money to do this.

Mayhaps you have a point about them needing more than 2 stores in our market. As I said, its a result of many variables, most of which we'll never agree upon because its not up to us.

I've just become distrustful of the good intentions of lobbying powers, seeing as what has happened with liquor distribution. I also know someone who works for the OK grocery distribution and she knows that they are very against any growth of outside distribution competition beyond what's already here. As to how powerful they are and what sorts of laws exist that may hinder development, I just don't know (Midtowner? you around?). I'm just unwilling to assume that its not one of the variables preventing upscale grocery chains from establishing here. You may think I'm paranoid, but oh well.

Well, I'm off to Crest for my weekly grocery shopping! And probably 3 other places because they don't consistently carry what I need

[Jenn]

You and I are on the same page concerning Wal-Crap. Except I don't even address the existence of the word "mart". Just Wal-Crap. They butchered the Oklahoma City grocery market.

I agree 100%! I call them the "Merchant of Shame" lol!

[Spartan]

Yeah the Crest in Moore is horrible. Even though Homeland on 104th is closer to us their selection makes Crest look like..Wal-Mart.

I'll admit that sometimes I do have to shop at Wal-Mart, which is closer than Moore. As much as I hate to say it, they might not even have the best prices, but they have the best composite score of price, selection, and convenience.

Wal-Mart is a horrible evil huge corporation but you have to admit, they got that way for a reason: they have figured out how to do retail better than anyone else. It would be great if a competitor of theirs could figure out how to do it just as effectively. So far the best Target can come up with is "shop here, we're not Wal-Mart."

[gmwise]

I remember Buchanans' and Synders and for a time Pratts did online grocery shopping, with delivery..that was a godsend.
But on every order from either three of them, I always had great experience.

[soonerguru]

Somehow I don't think Wal Mart was the sole reason Safeway closed. I don't think Wal Mart was the sole reason Albertson's closed. Wal Mart wasn't the sole reason Kamp's closed. These companies cannot compete against Wal Mart due to union labor and poor management. Its no different than what is happening in most any other city. Besides, Target has groceries too. Do you feel the same way about Target? Why don't you criticise them? Or is it just because to demonize Wal Mart is politically correct?

Wal-Mart is the number one reason we have no grocery competition in this market. OKC is a Wal-Mart test market. There are 21 Supercenters in the metro.

You must really like Wal-Mart the way you defend them.

[Millie]

Wal-Mart is the number one reason we have no grocery competition in this market. .

Do you have some kind of support for this, or is this just an effort to make unfounded comments to jump on the Wal-Mart bashing bandwagon?

[bluedogok]

Somehow I don't think Wal Mart was the sole reason Safeway closed. I don't think Wal Mart was the sole reason Albertson's closed.

Safeway was done in by management and Michael Milken's junk bonds in the early 80's, that is why they closed up in many states including Oklahoma long before Wal-Mart started the Neighborhood Market concept and was just testing the Hypercenter concept in Garland. Only 15 or so years ago they recovered and started growing again, but they are still on the average higher than HEB here in Texas (operating under the Randall's/Tom Thumb names) and King Soupers (Kroger) in Denver.

Albertson's was done in by being repeatedly "capitalized" to the point they couldn't afford the debt they had created. Which isn't unlike a lot of businesses that have had to retrench or close up completely in recent years.

[mugofbeer]

Wal-Mart is the number one reason we have no grocery competition in this market. OKC is a Wal-Mart test market. There are 21 Supercenters in the metro.

You must really like Wal-Mart the way you defend them.

I will also ask for some back up about your assertion against Wal Mart.

As for my liking of them, yeah, I shop there for certain items I know are cheaper. My main motivation, however, is to stop mindless and pointless claims against a company simply because it is fashionable.

[PennyQuilts]

But my point is if you (not YOU you, but folks in general you lol) don't go and visit these stores and see what they have, you will never know. We have sold out our local business for the sake of convenience...what a shame.

-Chris-

Whole foods is trendy. The ones listed aren't. Some people want to buy an experience and they have the discretionary income to do it. They want the best and they want it easy. People who are counting their pennies or who like to support local companies are looked down upon as stodgy.

[okcpulse]

Both are silly, mindless statements. Wal Mart succeeds because it is able to secure better prices for its products than other grocers, and can sell for less. The other grocers struggle because they exist in an industry with razor-thin margins. Albertson's is struggling nationally. Safeway is struggling nationally. Other grocers put in large stores that carry higher-margin, non-grocery items that help them improve their profitability. There is nothing going on in OK that isn't going on elsewhere. The difference is we don't have a Kroger or Publix to continue the competition.

Hey, I never said Wal-Mart's success isn't deserved. They have low prices. It saves people money. But they still cannibalized the Oklahoma City market.

[PennyQuilts]

That's called competition.

I am not sure how many people on this thread are in the grocery store business but I have long standing exposure to it - it is an extremely competitive business with a low profit margin.

And your average person in a rural or semi rural area are ecstatic when Wal Mart comes to the area. The city folk who want to run Wal Mart into the dust because it isn't good enough for them aren't thinking about how their country cousins are so grateful for the opportunity to have choices in what they can buy. City folk who forget that not everyone lives their lifestyle are just as bad as an old farmer who has no clue what works in the city.

And the fact is, Wal Mart isn't getting a government subsidy. If they stay in business, it is because people want to buy from them. The ones who hate them should vote with their pocketbook.

[PennyQuilts]

Indeed, it is competition, but ask any Oklahoma City grocery patron.

Q: "Do you shop at Wal-**** Supercenter for the prices?"
A: "Yes"

Q: "Do you think Wal-**** offers quality food and quality presentation."
A: "I just shop there for the prices. It's just Wal-****."

Many people do shop there because it saves them $$$$, but many think Wal-**** is nothing compared to a quality supermarket.

So, yeah, they butchered the OKC market by offering good prices in a grease garage. F*** 'em.

Are you for real???? Did you ever take a course in basic ecomonics? Or have responsibility to feed any living creature beyond a gold fish?

[okcpulse]

Are you for real???? Did you ever take a course in basic ecomonics? Or have responsibility to feed any living creature beyond a gold fish?

Excuse me?

[PennyQuilts]

Excuse me?

Oh sorry - I think I misunderstood your quoted post.

[bluedogok]

I am not sure how many people on this thread are in the grocery store business but I have long standing exposure to it - it is an extremely competitive business with a low profit margin.

I was amazed at how low the margins were on the food side of the business when I worked at Skagg's-Albertsons/Alpha Beta in 80-82, the drug side of the store had all the high margin items.

[mugofbeer]

Hey, I never said Wal-Mart's success isn't deserved. They have low prices. It saves people money. But they still cannibalized the Oklahoma City market.

You really haven't read mine or the other posts in this thread. Wal Mart is a competitor in the grocery business. So is Homeland. So is Crest. So is Buy-4-Less, and so is Target, etc. Safeway and Albertsons have left most other markets in the region. Its not Wal Mart that is the villain. Look at the unions that have killed those 2 chains because they can't overcome union wage requirements while trying to compete in an industry where profit margins are already razor thin. You're villainizing Wal Mart for simply doing business.

[okcpulse]

You're villainizing Wal Mart for simply doing business.

No. I am villainizing Wal-Mart for doing business cheaply. I'll admit Neighborhood Markets are better, but not by much. Selection is poor in both stores.

Younger people like myself go to Wal-Mart because we have to, not because we want to. We go to HEB Central Market in The Woodlands because the place is lively, service is phenomenal and the food quality is much better. Selection is better. And the presentation is exquisite.

Can Wal-Mart match that? No. Could they? Sure, but you can bet that last dollar they will not.

But I'll tell you what. I'll go to Wal-Mart's new prototype store in Edmond on I-35. If I'm impressed, I just might recant. And I emphasize might.

What this is really about is exceeding Oklahoma City's expectations by offering quality supermarkets found in other cities. It's about competition against other cities in offering a top notch quality of life in every aspect of city living, and that even includes grocery stores. In Oklahoma City's improving quality of life, grocery store owners can no longer afford to half-ass their operations like they used to. They could get away with it in 1992, but not now.

And it angers me that Wal-Mart grabbed the keys to our kingdom and blew it. Same with Homeland. Same with most Buy For Less stores.

SuperTarget and Crest come the closest to quality over quantity.

[mugofbeer]

No. I am villainizing Wal-Mart for doing business cheaply. I'll admit Neighborhood Markets are better, but not by much. Selection is poor in both stores.

And doing business cheaply is a crime? That's why Wal Mart is the largest business in the US (excepting occasionally for Exxon).

Younger people like myself go to Wal-Mart because we have to, not because we want to. We go to HEB Central Market in The Woodlands because the place is lively, service is phenomenal and the food quality is much better. Selection is better. And the presentation is exquisite.

Dude, go to any Wal Mart and it is packed to the gills with young people. Sounds like you're pandering to an elitist crowd down there in the golf cart heaven of The Woodlands. Unfortunlately, we don't have an HEB here. Thats the point you may be missing - some have and some aren't as fortunate.

I am the first to say I wish we had HEB or Tom Thumb or King Soopers or a couple of nice Whole Foods, but for people to say Wal Mart is the reason are ignorant (and please take that by it's dictionary definition, I am not trying to be insulting).

[okcpulse]

And doing business cheaply is a crime? That's why Wal Mart is the largest business in the US (excepting occasionally for Exxon).

No, it's not a crime. It just leaves the stores undesirable.

Dude, go to any Wal Mart and it is packed to the gills with young people.

Sounds like you're pandering to an elitist crowd down there in the golf cart heaven of The Woodlands.

I pander to no Texan. Especially not The Woodlands.

Unfortunlately, we don't have an HEB here. Thats the point you may be missing - some have and some aren't as fortunate.

I am the first to say I wish we had HEB or Tom Thumb or King Soopers or a couple of nice Whole Foods, but for people to say Wal Mart is the reason are ignorant (and please take that by it's dictionary definition, I am not trying to be insulting).

I never said Wal-Mart was the reason. I merely criticized Wal-Marts offerings for groceries. I worked there for three years. I know how they think. I know how they operate. More bang for the buck. And that's fine, but they can improve their quality. I will say that Wal-Marts in OKC are better operated than those here in Texas. It's much worse. But I want quality foods, like Kamp's Meat Market, Avalon Seafood and La Baguette's offers, just all under one roof.

HEB is a Texas-only operation. Crest is stepping up with a Fresh Market store under construction, but it's near Moore. When I relocate to OKC, I'll be in Edmond. Thankfully, there is a nice Crest up there to satisfy me.

[ljbab728]

My brother lives in the Hollywood area of LA and less than a mile from a Whole Foods store. He's told me that he never shops there because it's much too expensive and doesn't have anything he needs that he can't get elsewhere at a lower price. That may not apply to OKC but I've always been fed very well when I visit him.

[soonerguru]

My brother lives in the Hollywood area of LA and less than a mile from a Whole Foods store. He's told me that he never shops there because it's much too expensive and doesn't have anything he needs that he can't get elsewhere at a lower price. That may not apply to OKC but I've always been fed very well when I visit him.

Whole Foods may not be the answer, but anything is an improvement over what we have today. We do not have adequate grocery options for a city of this size.

[ljbab728]

Whole Foods may not be the answer, but anything is an improvement over what we have today. We do not have adequate grocery options for a city of this size.

I agree and believe we could have better options. But if you've lived here all of your life like me you would have to say that the options are much better now than they have ever been.

[bluedogok]

HEB is a Texas-only operation.

HEB also operates in Mexico but I think that is some kind of joint venture type of arrangement based off my vague recollections of some reports a few years ago.

[mugofbeer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mugofbeer
And doing business cheaply is a crime? That's why Wal Mart is the largest business in the US (excepting occasionally for Exxon).

No, it's not a crime. It just leaves the stores undesirable.

You're being critical of Wal Mart because they don't fill YOUR niche. You'd be no different if you were single without children criticizing Chuckie Cheese because they don't serve steak. Wal Mart serves a majority of the population in one way or another. They don't serve everyone's needs.

I never said Wal-Mart was the reason. I merely criticized Wal-Marts offerings for groceries. I worked there for three years. I know how they think. I know how they operate. More bang for the buck. And that's fine, but they can improve their quality. I will say that Wal-Marts in OKC are better operated than those here in Texas. It's much worse. But I want quality foods, like Kamp's Meat Market, Avalon Seafood and La Baguette's offers, just all under one roof.

Sure, Wal Mart could improve their quality, but then they'd be leaving their niche. If you want the quality of Kamps, Avalon or La Baquette, Wal Mart isn't the place to look. Again, you seem critical of Wal Mart because they don't fit your quality/lifestyle niche. That's not what Wal Mart does.

[rcjunkie]

You're being critical of Wal Mart because they don't fill YOUR niche. You'd be no different if you were single without children criticizing Chuckie Cheese because they don't serve steak. Wal Mart serves a majority of the population in one way or another. They don't serve everyone's needs.



Sure, Wal Mart could improve their quality, but then they'd be leaving their niche. If you want the quality of Kamps, Avalon or La Baquette, Wal Mart isn't the place to look. Again, you seem critical of Wal Mart because they don't fit your quality/lifestyle niche. That's not what Wal Mart does.

Most understand and accept things they don't like or agree with, other's just like to bitch!!!