Whole Foods

[betts]

See I don't think they do their homework. They look at average income and assume we can't support a store, and never take cost of living into consideration. It's ridiculous to think cities like the ones I mentioned above could support Whole Foods and we can't.

[bluedogok]

My former employer won't put an office in OKC because the advertising rates in the DOK are some of the highest, if not THE highest, per-capita of any major city in the country. OKC is now the largest city in the country without an office of my former employer. Grocery stores do a huge amount of newspaper advertising so, perhaps, one big reason is that Whole Foods doesn't want to pony up the rates the DOK demands?

I live in Whole Foods hometown, we take the Austin paper daily and in almost 7 years I have never seen an ad for Whole Foods in the daily or weekly papers nor have I seen one on TV. They are not an ad driven grocery like most, we have ads weekly for HEB, Fiesta and Randall's, I have seen some for Central Market, Sprouts, Newflower and Sun Harvest but not weekly.

I have been told that OKC is on the WF radar for future expansion.

[mugofbeer]

OK. Then add rates may not be the issue - maybe its the whole TX vs OU thing. (smile)

[soonerguru]

OK. Then add rates may not be the issue - maybe its the whole TX vs OU thing. (smile)

I can't believe I'm saying this, but people in Texas really like to lord it over Oklahoma, so don't completely discount that possibility. Texas really needs us to be their backward, moronic, loser little brother.

[gmwise]

Maybe we need MAPS4 to bring them in..

[soonerguru]

Maybe we need MAPS4 to bring them in..

Har har, yuk, yuk. You should do stand up.

[HOT ROD]

don't kid guru. IMO, it would have been better to have WF and/or a slew of upper end shoppes in Lower Bricktown than a suburban Bass Pro. ...

I think OKC would have gotten a LOT more mileage if we had even 1 upscale grocer as part of that $18M building they built for BP; an upscale retail "mall" if you will, full of say two or more of these high end grocers/stores would have been EVEN better.

[rcjunkie]

don't kid guru. IMO, it would have been better to have WF and/or a slew of upper end shoppes in Lower Bricktown than a suburban Bass Pro. ...

I think OKC would have gotten a LOT more mileage if we had even 1 upscale grocer as part of that $18M building they built for BP; an upscale retail "mall" if you will, full of say two or more of these high end grocers/stores would have been EVEN better.

If these so-called upper end shoppes had showed any interest, that could have been a possibility, you can't go to Whole Foods, Market Place, William Sonoma, etc; and demand they build in Bricktown. Bass Pro showed interest, therefore we have Bass Pro.

[HOT ROD]

Im not so sure about that. ..

I think the city courted Bass Pro.

[gmwise]

Im not so sure about that. ..

I think the city courted Bass Pro.

Yes they did.

[okcpulse]

If they thought we'd support it enough that they'd make money, they'd do it. Get serous - it is a business, not a social club or a church.

I've done my own ring studies based on their criteria and compared them to Albuquerque and Little Rock. We have the demographics. I never suggested it was a social club.

Per capita income alone is an indicator. In 2007, here are the PCPIs compared to OKC...

Albuquerque: $33,305
Little Rock: $37,739
Oklahoma City: $38,834

[betts]

I've done my own ring studies based on their criteria and compared them to Albuquerque and Little Rock. We have the demographics. I never suggested it was a social club.

Per capita income alone is an indicator. In 2007, here are the PCPIs compared to OKC...

Albuquerque: $33,305
Little Rock: $37,739
Oklahoma City: $38,834

So, do we simply have an image problem? Is there some other factor we're not considering that makes smaller cities with lower per capita income more likely to get stores? Does it really have anything to do with our sprawl, or is that an excuse? Are our property taxes higher or are these other cities offering incentives we aren't. I'm completely mystified, to be honest with you.

[gmwise]

I've done my own ring studies based on their criteria and compared them to Albuquerque and Little Rock. We have the demographics. I never suggested it was a social club.

Per capita income alone is an indicator. In 2007, here are the PCPIs compared to OKC...

Albuquerque: $33,305
Little Rock: $37,739
Oklahoma City: $38,834

I dont think income is all they go for.
Also maybe the age range...professionals.
I think Oklahoma has a obesity per capita.
Maybe with a more health conscious population.
With the number of trails and bike paths of MAPS3, who knows if that will help lure them into OKC.
I dont pretend to know for sure what WH criteria is.

[okcpulse]

It isn't property taxes or incentives. Grocery chains generally do not seek incentives to open a store.

Whole Foods has provided its criteria below...

At least 200,000 people within a 20-minute drive
A 40,000-square-foot to 75,000-square-foot space
Large numbers of college-educated residents
Abundant parking available for exclusive use
Easy access from roadways, including a stoplight-equipped intersection
Excellent street-level visibility
Area with high volumes of vehicular traffic

[gmwise]

It isn't property taxes or incentives. Grocery chains generally do not seek incentives to open a store.

Whole Foods has provided its criteria below...

At least 200,000 people within a 20-minute drive
A 40,000-square-foot to 75,000-square-foot space
Large numbers of college-educated residents
Abundant parking available for exclusive use
Easy access from roadways, including a stoplight-equipped intersection
Excellent street-level visibility
Area with high volumes of vehicular traffic

Do you think the 1st store would be most likely located Bricktown or Midtown,
or say more outlying area?

I asked because I noticed the costs of acquiring property in all those areas versus just develop "raw" land is higher.

[kevinpate]

Im not so sure about that. ..

I think the city courted Bass Pro.

Or vice versa, or a little of both. When the correctly connected have both a stake in a company, and the ear of city fathers, things do tend to happen.

[bluedogok]

So, do we simply have an image problem? Is there some other factor we're not considering that makes smaller cities with lower per capita income more likely to get stores? Does it really have anything to do with our sprawl, or is that an excuse? Are our property taxes higher or are these other cities offering incentives we aren't. I'm completely mystified, to be honest with you.

They have slowed down expansion because of the economy, the relocation of the North Austin store to The Domain was supposed to start early last year but has been changed to an indefinite status. It is a small store and definitely needs to be replaced.

Do you think the 1st store would be most likely located Bricktown or Midtown,
or say more outlying area?

I asked because I noticed the costs of acquiring property in all those areas versus just develop "raw" land is higher.

It will be outside of the downtown area, most of their stores outside the large urban cities (Boston, NYC, etc.) are not in the traditional urban center, some are in near urban areas but most are suburban. The only reason why there is one in Downtown Austin is because their headquarters is above that store, they built a office/store in that location. It replaced a store that was just outside the downtown area that was one of their oldest locations and a fraction of the size. There is not one in South Austin and there are no plans for one. We do have a Central Market, Sprouts and Newflower down here so I don't go to WF very often. I still think the Classen Curve rumors are the most likely to happen.

[foodiefan]

My sentiments exactly.

me three!!

[Richard at Remax]

I don't know why you guys are losing sleep and wanting to support a company that obviously does not want to put thier business here for whatever reason. There are other great options out there.

[Chicken In The Rough]

Thank you, Worthy. This eternal Whole Foods debate makes me weary. It's sort of like a guy courting a girl who can't stand him. Sometimes, it seems a little pathetic. Whole Foods doesn't want OKC despite our demographics and lack of viable competitors. In my opinion, it's their loss. We should simply shop elsewhere. Perhaps we can use our own dollars to help a local company develop a Whole Foods alternative.

[brianinok]

Thank you, Worthy. This eternal Whole Foods debate makes me weary. It's sort of like a guy courting a girl who can't stand him. Sometimes, it seems a little pathetic. Whole Foods doesn't want OKC despite our demographics and lack of viable competitors. In my opinion, it's their loss. We should simply shop elsewhere. Perhaps we can use our own dollars to help a local company develop a Whole Foods alternative.

No one is developing one. If a local company opened a store on the level of Whole Foods or Central Market, I would GLADLY support them. When a chain like Whole Foods is looking for expansion opportunities, already has locations in cities smaller (and with worse demographics) than us, and OKC would fit in with their distribution network, we are going to be pushing OKC to them. But Homeland can't just put "Marketplace" on their sign and be upscale; Neighborhood Market will always be a Wal-Mart at the core. We need a new concept in Oklahoma City-- Whole Foods, Central Market, whatever. I don't care which one. But Whole Foods seems to be the most likely so I am clamoring for them!

[betts]

I too would be delighted to support a local store, rather than a franchise. Problem is, there isn't one. I think it would be a great idea to develop a local, independently-owned store with a Whole Foods concept. However, if it did well, the problem is it would probably make the area look more attractive to Whole Foods. And, if Whole Foods came in, people would flock to it, because of its name, I fear. I remember several coffee shops that went out of business when Starbucks came in. And, if I remember correctly, Bollinger's Books was a victim of Barnes and Noble. Why chains seem to have cachet, I do not understand. But, they seem to, and it would make me nervous to develop an independent grocery store for that very reason.

[kevinpate]

... Why chains seem to have cachet, I do not understand. But, they seem to, ...

Sheeple can be very baaaa about granting cachet.

[jbrown84]

It's puzzling that some cities can support large numbers of these upscale grocery stores, but we can't even support one.

We can. No one will give us a shot. And none of the local chains are willing to attempt it.

[gamecock]

I agree that we can support a Whole Foods. Frankly, I think OKC could support more than one (some people apparently don't know what they're missing). There's really nothing like it at all in this area. As others have said, it doesn't have to be Whole Foods. It just has to be something like it...Central Market, Wegmans, Whole Foods, a local store...it really doesn't matter to me.