OKC profiled on History Channel's "Gangland"...

[kmf563]

KMF563, I have almost always enjoyed your posts here, and I'm fascinated to learn more about your life (as far as that is possible on a public forum).

Thanks sonnerguru!! I love the "almost" always part. lol. Honestly, I have gone back and read some of my posts and thought to myself...oh boy...I should have just kept my mouth shut on that one. But I guess I have bad days like everyone else. I will say that I have become pretty comfortable with everyone on here and forget most of you don't know me in person. Some of my posts sound a little more harsh than intended. But I enjoy learning about you too.

[kevinpate]

It's true there are pockets like CBD, BT, Midtown and other pockets of peace and even affluence in the inner city. True of most cities I imagine.

It's also true there are a whole lot of big arse pockets such as described by kmf563, indeed, way more than many seem to realize.

All cities have an ugly underbelly if one takes the time to look. I don't live in OKC, never have, but between personal and professional interests, I have ventured into both the cream and the sludge of the city, at high noon and late night.

Batman and Spidey could stay rather busy for a spell if they were real and in OKC.

With respect, if one's mind gives doubt to the assertion, I hope you never learn how wrong, even deadly, that doubt truly is.

[kevinpate]

... Perhaps we could contact the gang's leader and get him to change the name of the gang to Big League City Locos .. that sounds terrifying. ...

I thought the city council held a trademark on Big League City Locos?

[Spartan]

I thought the city council held a trademark on Big League City Locos?

See, and before this GangLand series, I would heavily bet on that gang getting featured on the History Channel over real gangs. I mean who wants to hear about violence and drugs and crime when instead they could watch a series that's all about Downtown Rotary Club members disagreeing on the different city committees they serve on and tons of back hand deals and closed door meetings and political leverage. I mean that actually sounds like something made to film..

[MGE1977]

I think you're trying to suggest this site consists of a bunch of latte-sippin' yuppies, and for the record, you may be right. However, a lot of us do have experience living in bigger cities with more dangerous neighborhoods in them. But, to your point, Iguana Cafe is south of NW 23rd Street, so it falls within the area you describe, as do numerous places where one can be served java in town (at least one of which had its own very meandering thread).

I'll agree with you, everyone has a past and any one of those is worthy for lessons learned and experience gained. I'm not putting mine above others, I feel that mine was as character building as probably anyone else on this thread likewise does.

What got my ire up was the point made by a few that they were unaffected by such things. Mostly if you are unaffected it is because you choose to be, and if you choose to be, most likely it is because you are privileged to be amongst those who have the choice.

As someone else wrote: because it isn't seen, doesn't mean it isn't happening. My Iguana remark was I think still appropriate while not geographically consistent with my intent. There are in fact places within places in this city, microcosms, be they areas of retail or residential streets that preserve their integrity, but around them, areas that cannot help but be overrun.

I like Latte's myself. I should have used a bullet and not buckshot when I posted my last remarks. I am merely defending my point of view as someone who at times in my life, hadn't the choice.

[Architect2010]

I've lived in the inner southside my whole adolsecent life and I never encountered gang problems. I know of their existence. I know people who are associated with them. I see sudden rises in graffiti and then nothing. But never have the Southside Locos affected me personally.

That episode did blow it out of proportion slightly. It is a problem. But not as hugely horrific as they showed it to be.

[MGE1977]

I've lived in the inner southside my whole adolsecent life and I never encountered gang problems. I know of their existence. I know people who are associated with them. I see sudden rises in graffiti and then nothing. But never have the Southside Locos affected me personally.

That episode did blow it out of proportion slightly. It is a problem. But not as hugely horrific as they showed it to be.

Where, may I ask, did you live? Or at least from what school did you graduate?

[native405]

yeah i saw the episode tonight (it on right now if anyone is interested). I definitely agree that while okc isn't watts or southeast houston in terms of gang levels, there is a pretty heightened level here for a city of our size. It would be shortsided to say that the booming hispanic population this area has seen in the past decade as a culprit. Okc is a huge trafficking point for drugs coming out of tx and ca on i35 and i40 respectively, and gangs have been fighting for control of it since the 70's.

I'm not familiar with issues on the southside, but i will say on my way to work on nw 10th street i've definitely noticed a lot of tagging lately, especially between 44 and western. Are the gangs starting to migrate north now?

the hispanic population is not the culprit . I have lived on the southside of oklahoma city all my live and gangs have been here way befor hispanic where here.

[hipsterdoofus]

the hispanic population is not the culprit . I have lived on the southside of oklahoma city all my live and gangs have been here way befor hispanic where here.

If you read what he said, I believe he said that they are NOT the culprit, but rather the fact that OKC is a major crossroads.

[OUGrad05]

Terrible would be a little bit of a stretch

No it isn't, I have family that was ocpd gang enforcement and did national talks on gangs, OKC is bad, not the worst but pretty bad...

[MikeOKC]

Why tiptoe around the facts? I certainly did for YEARS as a cultural lefty. Those days are over after personal experience and heavy-duty research. So, I'll say it like it is and call me a "racist" all some of you want: This is a BLACK and HISPANIC problem which, of course, impacts all of us. Are there whites in gangs? Yes. A tiny, tiny number.
This is a cultural war. They fight each other on weekends and they ALL prey on white people, and destroy our neighborhoods, during the week. Somebody has to say it.

[MikeOKC]

Before somebody asks...


Department of Justice chart.
http://ojjdp.ncjrs.gov - Survey Results: Gang member demographics, Race/Ethnicity

Most white gangs are rural and many times hispanics are counted as whites. The actual percentage according to DOJ estimates is around 4% white gang membership. The 14% is a weighted average. You can read more at the link or just Google this stuff. There's no denying this. There's also no putting on a pretty face for "diversity" or "multiculturalism" purposes. Ask California how diversity's working out.

[Spartan]

Honestly the Hispanic gangs aren't that bad.

[Fastfwd]

I watched the show…….pretty interesting.

I took like Penn down from that old club that was in the church on Classen one night back in the 90s…..I was in a Jeep with the top off and got down to about 59th Street and some little punks shot at me from their car and took off. I was frightened and furious at the same time. I had a new Glock model 22 at the time and it gave me something to really think about when practicing with it.

Hate to say it, but I just don’t care much for the south side………my Grandma used to live down there and it’s really taken a dive since she was there. I’m personally not too pleased about the ‘Hispanic’ invasion of this city or country for that matter. Hearing that whites will be in the minority by mid century doesn’t delight me in the least to be as nice as I can be about it.

Seems like they could have featured a lot more instances of gang violence than the Crossroads Mall shooting though. The way they kept going back to it made it seem like that was the only instance of gang violence ever experienced here.

[LakeEffect]

the hispanic population is not the culprit . I have lived on the southside of oklahoma city all my live and gangs have been here way befor hispanic where here.

Here's where we get into semantics. The Hispanic population is not all gang members, but a majority of the gang members are (statistically) Hispanic.

Being Hispanic won't make you a gang member... it should give people cause to wonder why there is such a high rate of gang activity within Hispanic and African-American cultures. What can we do to make them feel as though they are worthwhile and belong without having to be in a gang?

[MGE1977]

This thread has taken a turn for the worst.

Whites the minority by the turn of the century? Seriously? This is just ignorant. Who cares?

I've been a minority for the majority of my life, (growing up in Albuquerque - you need a separate phone book practically just for the Garcia, Sanchez, Griego, Romero etc. entries.)

Do some of you feel that this will impact the United States, or Oklahoma City for that matter? These people have come here for the very same reasons that many of our culturally diverse ancestors did - betterment not just of self, but for future generations. Does it seem practical that their values are so dramatically different than one's own that they will change the American way of life, anywhere? More likely for them to assimilate I would propose.

As a matter of fact, in my line of work, many of the most pleasant and respectful people to work for are those minorities, while in contrast some of the most slovenly indolent wastes of space are in the "majority" of Oklahoman culture thus far.

Whether or not the majority of gang members are of black/hispanic backgrounds is irrelevant. As stated in a previous post, gangs are epidemic, and have been since the first immigrants came across.

I take issue with the misuse of this forum for comments made in previous posts which speak to race as the causitive agent for gangs. Desperation, and protection are the impetus. Gang units acrossed the nation and in OKC are highly skilled and tactically responsible groups that enforce law, while giving wide birth to cultural differences and respectful communication with gang affiliates.

It is ridiculous to blame race for gangs, regardless of statistics. It would be similarly ridiculous to blame the abuse of prescription drugs in high school and college populations on white kids. People do what they due for bad reasons, sometimes peculiar reasons, and though statistically numbers point to classes or races, the fact remains that it is situational influences which determine these points.

[OUGrad05]

Honestly the Hispanic gangs aren't that bad.

I've got several family members currently in law enforcement, all of them say the hispanic gangs scare them the most...black gangs make more noise, aka more public beatings, shootings, etc but the hispanic gangs are the most ruthless...

The hispanic gangs seem to be the most scary for my friends and family in law enforcement : dunno:

[Fastfwd]

This thread has taken a turn for the worst.

Whites the minority by the turn of the century? Seriously? This is just ignorant. Who cares?

It’s a major news story……

whites minority - Google News

Ignorant? LOL…..pull your head out maybe?

It pisses me off. I’m white and I want to keep a white majority. Go figure that one. Mexicans have a country of their own. They can stay there as far as I am concerned.

[OUGrad05]

This thread has taken a turn for the worst.

Whites the minority by the turn of the century? Seriously? This is just ignorant. Who cares?

I've been a minority for the majority of my life, (growing up in Albuquerque - you need a separate phone book practically just for the Garcia, Sanchez, Griego, Romero etc. entries.)

Do some of you feel that this will impact the United States, or Oklahoma City for that matter? These people have come here for the very same reasons that many of our culturally diverse ancestors did - betterment not just of self, but for future generations. Does it seem practical that their values are so dramatically different than one's own that they will change the American way of life, anywhere? More likely for them to assimilate I would propose.

As a matter of fact, in my line of work, many of the most pleasant and respectful people to work for are those minorities, while in contrast some of the most slovenly indolent wastes of space are in the "majority" of Oklahoman culture thus far.

Whether or not the majority of gang members are of black/hispanic backgrounds is irrelevant. As stated in a previous post, gangs are epidemic, and have been since the first immigrants came across.

I take issue with the misuse of this forum for comments made in previous posts which speak to race as the causitive agent for gangs. Desperation, and protection are the impetus. Gang units acrossed the nation and in OKC are highly skilled and tactically responsible groups that enforce law, while giving wide birth to cultural differences and respectful communication with gang affiliates.

It is ridiculous to blame race for gangs, regardless of statistics. It would be similarly ridiculous to blame the abuse of prescription drugs in high school and college populations on white kids. People do what they due for bad reasons, sometimes peculiar reasons, and though statistically numbers point to classes or races, the fact remains that it is situational influences which determine these points.

And we have a winner, this is an excellent post...

Upbringing, parental involvement, various situtions when someone is growing up all influence the direction they head as they get older...and sometimes you just get a "bad apple" that spins off and goes into drugs or gangs etc...

[MGE1977]

It’s a major news story……

whites minority - Google News

Ignorant? LOL…..pull your head out maybe?

It pisses me off. I’m white and I want to keep a white majority. Go figure that one. Mexicans have a country of their own. They can stay there as far as I am concerned.

Good grief. Listen George Wallace called and said: "Hey tell that jackweed to chill, I recanted already...."

Since when is it ours to keep, whites I mean? Aren't we immigrants? Didn't whites effectively import most or all of the Blacks while almost simultaneously inhibiting the natives of the continent so that a white majority that you now enjoy could be established? Aren't the trades now to surfeit with Mexicans who are actually willing to work for a living and not collect cheeze?

As I stated before, immigration is more for future generations than current. The kids of those who come over will reap the benefits of their sometimes illegal, and almost always culturally abused forefathers. The progression may take many generations to see fruition. Generations that have obviously past for you and I as we type on our computers with our coffees on a Saturday morning.

You are ignorant, and increasingly moreso with every word you type about protecting the "white majority." 300 years homie, I'd say that was a pretty good run.

[Fastfwd]

You are ignorant, and increasingly moreso with every word you type about protecting the "white majority." 300 years homie, I'd say that was a pretty good run.

Mmmmm, no, I would say that in this situation you are the more ill informed if you insist that I am ignorant for stating what is widely reported as fact.
No, 300 years isn’t good enough…… I don’t have kids, but if I do I want them to enjoy the same majority that I have…..and their kids….. it’s not rocket science why I would desire this to be the case.

As it stands now – luckily I will likely be in the majority until near the end of my life at least.

I’m not ignorant for not prescribing to your belief that whites should just give up and let the Mexicans (or where ever they are from) overrun the boarders and flood the country. I’ve got a few choice words that I could use to describe you, but I’m going to keep them to myself and I suggest you let it go as well.

I’m not particularly fond of the powers that be for allowing the invasion…. In my opinion, instead of being lazy, why aren’t we spreading the need for immigrant labor across the globe? I think it cheapens our country to just sit back and let whoever comes across the boarder set themselves up to become citizens.

Now, wasn’t this thread about the ‘Hispanic’ gang problem in OKC….. yeah, let’s get back to talking about what a wonderful group they are. Do tell what a magnificent contribution they make to ‘The OKC.’

[MGE1977]

Mmmmm, no, I would say that in this situation you are the more ill informed if you insist that I am ignorant for stating what is widely reported as fact.
No, 300 years isn’t good enough…… I don’t have kids, but if I do I want them to enjoy the same majority that I have…..and their kids….. it’s not rocket science why I would desire this to be the case.

As it stands now – luckily I will likely be in the majority until near the end of my life at least.

I’m not ignorant for not prescribing to your belief that whites should just give up and let the Mexicans (or where ever they are from) overrun the boarders and flood the country. I’ve got a few choice words that I could use to describe you, but I’m going to keep them to myself and I suggest you let it go as well.

I’m not particularly fond of the powers that be for allowing the invasion…. In my opinion, instead of being lazy, why aren’t we spreading the need for immigrant labor across the globe? I think it cheapens our country to just sit back and let whoever comes across the boarder set themselves up to become citizens.

Now, wasn’t this thread about the ‘Hispanic’ gang problem in OKC….. yeah, let’s get back to talking about what a wonderful group they are. Do tell what a magnificent contribution they make to ‘The OKC.’

White? C'mon man, at best grey.

Gangs do not contribute really anything on a Macro-level, on a Micro-level I think a case can be made for protection, income, family etc. Is this the ideal way to make a living, probably not. Is it A way to make a living, yes it is.

Somewhere along the lines, we are descended from a group of people who banded together, formed a community and in those communities paths were taken that lead us where we are today. Simple right?

Why is this any different? I don't think we are "lazy" as a nation for having relatively open borders. It seems to me that you are yelling to "raise the drawbridge" just after you squeaked in. Not cool man. Not cool.

As for your choice words, I chose ignorant, your move....

[Fastfwd]

How about punk for coming on the internet and starting in name calling and making personal attacks on somebody who you don’t even know? I’m pretty sure you can make your arguments without personal attacks and name calling.

I don’t give a rat’s ass how ‘cool’ you think it is for my will to keep a white majority for myself and if I do ever happen to have children of my own if not for the children of my family.

The fact of the matter is that you referred to me being ignorant for referencing a widely reported news story. So, suck it up and acknowledge who the ignorant one is in that scenario. Keep your ‘open boarders’ preaching for somebody who cares.

I make no claim of being a history or American government buff, but my quick Google on the topic brings up:

Immigration Act of 1924 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, yeah, um, apparently quotas on immigration have been used before and from what this article says they were in place until 1965. So, I guess the ‘drawbridge’ has been pulled up before our time and in my opinion couldn’t be pulled up again quickly enough. My opinion.

[MGE1977]

How about punk for coming on the internet and starting in name calling and making personal attacks on somebody who you don’t even know? I’m pretty sure you can make your arguments without personal attacks and name calling.

I don’t give a rat’s ass how ‘cool’ you think it is for my will to keep a white majority for myself and if I do ever happen to have children of my own if not for the children of my family.

The fact of the matter is that you referred to me being ignorant for referencing a widely reported news story. So, suck it up and acknowledge who the ignorant one is in that scenario. Keep your ‘open boarders’ preaching for somebody who cares.

I make no claim of being a history or American government buff, but my quick Google on the topic brings up:

Immigration Act of 1924 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, yeah, um, apparently quotas on immigration have been used before and from what this article says they were in place until 1965. So, I guess the ‘drawbridge’ has been pulled up before our time and in my opinion couldn’t be pulled up again quickly enough. My opinion.

1965 is the only bit of pertinent information in that entire post. What else happened in 1965? Not to worry, I'll Wiki it also....

[Midtowner]

Don't worry Fastfwd, whites will enjoy a quasi-majority for years to come because they still possess the lion's share of this nation's wealth. That might not last forever though, at least anecdotally speaking, recent immigrants and their families are MUCH hungrier for the American Dream than our entitlement-mentality 'natives' (in quotes because I don't mean American Indians).

Every wave of immigration has brought with it an element of organized crime. Organized crime sort of naturally springs up in communities which are deprived of equal economic opportunity. There's a whole different dynamic of risk vs. reward with regard to crime in a gang, particularly some of the more established ones which can offer protection and safety even in prison. Fortunately though, as those immigrant communities are absorbed into society, the formerly dominant criminal interests become further and further marginalized when legitimate economic participation in society becomes possible or the distinctions which caused that immigrant community to be separate from society in the first place slip away (as happened with the Irish).

I think immigration is just fine. I'm not threatened by it. It's great for the economy. The future of our economy relies on small businesses and immigration is one of the things making small business possible. If you're worried about shifting political realities, maybe it's time to shift your own political reality to acknowledge that we live in a constantly changing world and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.