Public safety #1

[betts]

I edited my above comment, probably while you were quoting me. I'm wondering if we're talking about two separate use taxes, one from MAPS for Kids and/or the Ford Center and the other from the not yet collected MAPS 3.

[rcjunkie]

I edited my above comment, probably while you were quoting me. I'm wondering if we're talking about two separate use taxes, one from MAPS for Kids and/or the Ford Center and the other from the not yet collected MAPS 3.

Betts, in my humble observation and opinion, your providing them with true facts that show their rants and comments at the very least are misguided. They are not about finding and sharing the facts, your fighting a lost cause.

[Mikemarsh51]

Spartan, the quote "the highest quality product the lowest bid will buy" is irony. I hope you knew that. That is how we operate though, just check out the toilet paper at any city facility.

[Wambo36]

Not when the NOT THIS MAPS People are trying to make "something out of nothing".

I guess you have to give them credit for something, but talk about kicking a dead horse, hell, even Mark Shannon has thrown in the towel and moved on.

To quote, well, you actually;

Jimanee Christmas RC, the maps vote's over, move on, let it go, the built up anger will make you ill.

[decepticobra]

my suggested name for new hockey team: Oklahoma Outlaws. Logo could be a silhoutte of an outlaw complete with hat on head and bandana over mouth.

[Spartan]

Spartan, the quote "the highest quality product the lowest bid will buy" is irony. I hope you knew that. That is how we operate though, just check out the toilet paper at any city facility.

Yeah I know. I'm well aware of state laws regarding selecting bids for public works projects..

[Larry OKC]

Depends on how you look at this. Do we usually expect to break even on any public works designed for leisure time activities? We will never break even on the new park, nor have we broken even on any parks created by the city. I seriously doubt we will ever break even on the Civic Center, and probably haven't and won't on the Brick either. But, when have we broken even on a road we've created that wasn't a turnpike, or a city building, or an airport? I think this whole "break even" concept should either be applied to everything we build with taxpayer money or nothing. Since we'll never break even on the majority, let's stop worrying about two.

I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with this, but the mayor's public offer of use taxes to fund new employees was rejected by the unions prior to the vote. So, I don't know if it's completely fair to assume that he would have to be held to that offer. I'm not saying it's right to use the use tax for the Cox Center, just that we shouldn't expect to break even. Also, I may be reading it incorrectly, but it looks like the Myriad may be getting the use tax from MAPS for Kids and/or the Ford Center MAPS, not the MAPS 3 use tax which won't start being generated until April. Does anyone else read it that way?

I see what you are saying but when they tout the economic benefits of a particular project and the Mayor and City Manager talk about "breaking even" it is a valid point to be considered. Parks and sidewalks etc of course are never going to break even, but those that are revenue producers should be maximized as fully as possible (allows more money to go for those things that aren't)

[Larry OKC]

my suggested name for new hockey team: Oklahoma Outlaws. Logo could be a silhoutte of an outlaw complete with hat on head and bandana over mouth.

Wasn't that the name/logo used for our 1st arena football team (before the YardDawgz)?

[kevinpate]

Wasn't that the name/logo used for our 1st arena football team (before the YardDawgz)?

I thought that was the Tulsa team. I don't pay much attention to arena ball though, so don't bet the farm on my recall.

[OKCGUY3]

Betts,
The use tax that was being used for the four fire trucks was from the Maps for Kids use tax. This has nothing to do with the new and upcoming use tax that was rejected by the Unions. This is about a use tax that was committed to public safety and plans were there for the money, bids and specs had gone out and a vender was chosen for the four new fire trucks. And then along comes a special project to get another hockey team. (again, nothing against getting a team) so the fire trucks were cancelled and the money was reappropreated for the Cox center upgrades. All of this with no mentioned plan of replacing the worn out fire trucks in the near future. Love hockey , can't wait to see em play. But how about a little less obvious neglect for the fire service. Just my opinion.

[OKCGUY3]

And all of this just days after the Mayor was on TV saying that our public safety is his number one priority and even going on to say something along the lines of, our public safety employees are going to be the best equipped, best trained and best compensated in the region.
That statement is now laughable with the blatent disregard by the city council regarding the best equipped part. Wait..... maybe they only canceled these new fire trucks because they weren't the BEST fire trucks...Hmmmm? probably not.

[Mikemarsh51]

In the interest of being as factual as possible, I had a conversation with the Fire Chief today, he told me we bought the extra reserve ladder for $195,000.00, after it was offered to us for $295,000.000. We got a good deal on that.

[OKCRESCUE]

At the city council meeting on 12/8/09, the council approved the purchase of the loaner Rescue Ladder that has been talked about (which was a great bargain in my oppion).

During the meeting a question was raised about where the funds will come from for the Ladder. Councilman Pete White raised the question because he wanted to make sure everyone was aware that the new fire truck was being purchased with Maps 4 Kids use tax funds. Then the city manager goes on to say "we have not spent any dollars from the Maps 4 Kids use tax that was not for public safety".

The very next week they approve 3.2 million for the Cox center that will be funded with Maps 4 Kids use tax.
Amazing the difference seven days make!

Council video SIRE WebCenter

Hope the link works!
If not, it is item VI A on the agenda.

[OKCRESCUE]

.......

[rcjunkie]

[Spartan]

In the interest of being as factual as possible, I had a conversation with the Fire Chief today, he told me we bought the extra reserve ladder for $195,000.00, after it was offered to us for $295,000.000. We got a good deal on that.

A ladder costs more than most people's houses? And to think I would have gladly marched down to Home Depot and bought you guys a ladder..

[kevinpate]

A ladder costs more than most people's houses? And to think I would have gladly marched down to Home Depot and bought you guys a ladder..

HD doesn't carry extra reserve ladders, only regular reserve ladders

[Spartan]

Tulsa World: Layoffs big in TFD proposal

Tulsa may end up cutting the Fire Dept's budget by 4.4% if Holiday sales don't drive up sales tax in a hurry. That would be 120 firefighters let go from a force of 600. That's huge. And closing several stations around the city.

[Mikemarsh51]

Spartan, the loss of positions would be bad. It would not affect fire services for them. They have a call back board. Any time they need to fill a position they call in an off duty firefighter and pay them 24 hours of overtime to work. Oklahoma City does not have this option because the city will not agree to it. It would have cost about 100,000.00 or so last year to keep anyone from having days off canceled.

The ladder trucks the city was going to purchase were $675,000.00. I wish HD hed them there.

[andy157]

Betts,
The use tax that was being used for the four fire trucks was from the Maps for Kids use tax. This has nothing to do with the new and upcoming use tax that was rejected by the Unions. This is about a use tax that was committed to public safety and plans were there for the money, bids and specs had gone out and a vender was chosen for the four new fire trucks. And then along comes a special project to get another hockey team. (again, nothing against getting a team) so the fire trucks were cancelled and the money was reappropreated for the Cox center upgrades. All of this with no mentioned plan of replacing the worn out fire trucks in the near future. Love hockey , can't wait to see em play. But how about a little less obvious neglect for the fire service. Just my opinion.

OKCGUY3, is it true that after 2 Resue Ladder Trucks failed their annual inspection and had to be put out-of-service that the annual inspection requirment was cancelled for the rest of the fleet?

[MGE1977]

OKCGUY3, is it true that after 2 Resue Ladder Trucks failed their annual inspection and had to be put out-of-service that the annual inspection requirment was cancelled for the rest of the fleet?

That's what we've heard, simply cannot take the risk of putting more apparatus OOS. We've got 2 trucks operating from old squads. 25's is in 119, the old reserve rig with a line date of what, 1970-something?

As it stands, if any peice of apparatus has to be taken out of frontline service those crews stand a good likelyhood of responding to fire alarms in junk. No money for parts, and no money to put trained hands on the rigs to work on them.

The ladders as they are would be great reserve rigs, once brought up to safety standards. Four new rigs would be greatly appreciated and at this time necessary. I shudder to think of events that will precipitate action on the part of the city. Somebody is going to have to get hurt. But so long as there is money to be shifted, OKC will have all the luxuries it desires.

Those reading please make note that 2 ladders failed safety inspection. That means no climbing. That means no rescue or master stream deployment at large scale fires. Truck work is the work of rescue. They rescue trapped occupants, as well as providing necessary relief to firefighters inside by cutting vent holes in roofs to allow hot gasses and smoke to leave. Some roofs are simply too steep to climb even with roof ladders, some are too weakened by the fire roaring beneath them for a firefighter to be placed atop, in these instances a vent is cut from the boom of the ladder truck.

This will not happen by crews that respond in squads (which might look to you like big vans) because they are ill equipped. We currently have two truck companies in old squads meaning two less areial ladders throughout the city.

If a reader feels I am being dramatic, its their right. I feel that taking money from public safety when they were beginning the bidding process for necessary equipment is underhanded, and reprehensible.

These are not civilian vehicles that can be expected to last relative to the care with which they are handled. Heavy rigs are abused from jump street with hard breaking and acceleration, and the very weight of them puts strain on integral members of their frame and suspension. We wash almost daily, to include a detailed job every Friday by the shift on duty, we wax the first tuesday of every month, we grease ladders yearly and when needed, we check fluids every shift, tires every shift, paint wheels to prevent rust, etc. We have protocols for every one of these maintenance procedures. We take care of our stuff. The jobs these rigs perform limit their functional lives - it is inherently rough.

[rcjunkie]

[Mikemarsh51]

I spoke recently to someone that mentioned during our conversation that Jim Couch seems and "I say seems because I will have to do some checking", has called for budget cuts almost every year. How does that work? If the city has grown, and it has, why is the budget being cut every year?

[Larry OKC]

Not sure about budget cuts per se, but the past 3 or 4 years now the City's budget was described as being "tight" and "stand still". From what I have read in the City's budget reports, any increases in revenue essentially go to pay for increased costs of all city personel (salaries, benefits, etc and the most recent culprit was rising fuel costs). Now that the City has been experiencing a steady double digit decline in tax revenues for nearly the entire year, obviously there isn't increased revenue to keep up with the expenses much less to pay for what was current...thus the across the board declines and recently reported probable furloughs.

[Mikemarsh51]

Something to think about, the city has 13 aerial ladders, 8 in the 82-100 foot range. 2 are 135 foot ladders and 3 are 95' aerial platforms. The city has 3 reserve ladders, 1 is a 1985 model, 1 is a 1989 model and 1 is a fairly new ladder bought at a significant discount.

The 1985 reserve is out of service as are 3 1995 front line ladders, RL-16, RL-25 and RL-34. All four are sitting on the drillground at the maintenance shop. RL-6 is out of service at an engine shop. So considering we only have 2 reserve and 4 ladders are out of service, we are being shortchanged by someone. 2 of the ladder companies are using 1990 squad companies. These box type vehicles carry significantly less of the equipment assigned to those companies.

I would rather the city had ordered the 4 ladders they were going to and the Hockey team could have sought private investors. Just my thought as a taxpaying city resident.