Global Overpopulation: How Serious is it?

[HVAC Instructor]

HVAC - exactly how are you planning to stop someone in Bolivia or Burkina Faso or Indonesia from having sex?

Who said anything about preventing people from having sex?

[mugofbeer]

Well, I am sure you already realize that for starters it kind of leads to pregnancy and children. Secondly, if you are headed in the direction of contraception, the Muslims and the Catholics don't accept that (I don't know if Hindu's, Bhuddists or other religions accept the use of contraception).

You're proposing a wholesale change in actions, beliefs and norms that have been entrenched in people for hundreds or thousands of years. There are millions Muslims out there who think nothing of bombing women and children into oblivion or using same to blow up other Muslim innocents (not to mention soldiers). How do you plan to get them to stop having children?

[HVAC Instructor]

Well, I am sure you already realize that for starters it kind of leads to pregnancy and children. Secondly, if you are headed in the direction of contraception, the Muslims and the Catholics don't accept that (I don't know if Hindu's, Bhuddists or other religions accept the use of contraception).

You're proposing a wholesale change in actions, beliefs and norms that have been entrenched in people for hundreds or thousands of years. There are millions Muslims out there who think nothing of bombing women and children into oblivion or using same to blow up other Muslim innocents (not to mention soldiers). How do you plan to get them to stop having children?

Nobody said it would be an easy task. Nobody said it would be cheap. Deep down, EVERYBODY knows the planet can only sustain a limited numer of humans.

The solution is not to give up because it is too hard. It is going to take action. It is going to take education. It is going to take persistence. And yes, it is going to take money, yes, your tax money to some extent. Doing nothing because it is difficult is not going to work.

We have to start here first to set the example before insisting Asia, the Middleast and Africa do it first. That's what leaders do: LEAD.

#1 suggestion: Eliminate tax and social policy that encourages having chidren. No tax deductions for simply having children.

2. Cash or tax credits for voluntary sterilizations for both men and women.

3. Require 100% participation with a graded exam in a class like the one by the Professor Emeritus at the beginning of this thread as a requirement to graduate high school AND college.

You did watch all 8 videos, didn't you?

There's 3 suggestions for the beginning of a solution. No whining that it's too hard. No whining that it will cost money. Just 3 simple actions to get the ball rolling.

[mugofbeer]

HVAC - I would love to watch all of your videos but I truly don't have the time. What I am saying is that its an impossible task to try to impose some sort of prohibition on sex or make them use contraceptives when their faith doesn't allow it. The best that can be done is to convince them that they will never escape poverty or hunger if they don't stop having children - but even this may be impossible due to the image of machismo for having more and more children. Even the Chinese can't stop their population growth.

[Martin]

overpopulation? i have a suggestion... -M



/obscure?

[MadMonk]

^^^^^^
Logan's Run?

[bluedogok]

Nobody said it would be an easy task. Nobody said it would be cheap. Deep down, EVERYBODY knows the planet can only sustain a limited numer of humans.

...then at some point it will become self correcting.

The west/industrialized nations/etc. forcing their views on others of what is the "correct" number of children to have will always be met with conflict form other cultures. Sorry, I just don't feel there is anything that can be done about the problem because those who are creating most of the problem refuse to change their culture. So in the end, it will correct itself, yes people will starve, die, etc. but that is part of population control which the industrialized world seems to counter every time there is a famine or other catastrophic event. Should we stop helping those other countries in time of need? That would help.

Maybe those of us in the West shouldn't live as long? In addition to what you proposed maybe we should start exterminating people when they hit age 60, would that "fix the problem" to your liking? Because that is more likely than trying to get many indigenous populations to have only one child, of course paying off their dictators may get them to commit genocide on their own people, would that help? There's the money angle again because that seems to be the only thing that most understand.

The truth is there are no "simple" solutions to the problem, it is one with many, many layers and no clear solution. It does remind of some lyrics in a Queensryche song.

I do agree with #1, but then I am a childless heathen to some...

[Martin]

logan's run?

bingo! -M

[HVAC Instructor]

HVAC - I would love to watch all of your videos but I truly don't have the time.

You don't have time? You have been a member here since March 2008 and have logged 1,669 posts as of this post. And you don't have time to learn something about the subject you are posting about?

Sorry. Not buying that excuse. If you just don't want to watch it, then just admit you refuse to learn the real truth and facts about global over population. Just admit it makes you cringe that you might actually have to pay a little extra money to keep the planet inhabitable for your grand kids.

Your money or your life? Ever seen a hearse with a trailer hitch?

[HVAC Instructor]

...
Maybe those of us in the West shouldn't live as long? In addition to what you proposed maybe we should start exterminating people when they hit age 60, would that "fix the problem" to your liking? ...

This is where rational discussion ends when ridiculous statments like this are made.

[HVAC Instructor]

overpopulation? i have a suggestion... -M



/obscure?

And another example of when rational discussion ends.

[Martin]

and another example of when rational discussion ends.

really? have you even seen the movie? watch all 120 minutes of it then you can comment on whether or not it's rational.

-M

[HVAC Instructor]

really? have you even seen the movie? watch all 120 minutes of it then you can comment on whether or not it's rational.

-M

Yes, mm, I have seen it...twice, thank you. That is precisely why I find it just as irrational as bluedogs post. When I can beam me up some poon tang right to my home, then we can talk about a science fiction flick.

I actually thought you would come back and reply you were being humorous.

Do you actually find your post rational and reasonable?

Now, did you watch the video series in the OP?

[mugofbeer]

You don't have time? You have been a member here since March 2008 and have logged 1,669 posts as of this post. And you don't have time to learn something about the subject you are posting about?

Sorry. Not buying that excuse. If you just don't want to watch it, then just admit you refuse to learn the real truth and facts about global over population. Just admit it makes you cringe that you might actually have to pay a little extra money to keep the planet inhabitable for your grand kids.

Your money or your life? Ever seen a hearse with a trailer hitch?

No, I really don't have time to watch them. I comment between appointments and when I have some free time - but it really doesnt matter. I understand what you are saying about overpopulation and I think thats a bigger problem than any man-made effects of global warming, but its still something that would require wholesale changes to the societal fabric, developed over hundreds, if not thousands of years - that are pretty unrealistic to do. It would take hundreds of years for change to take hold. If the direction of change had anything to do with the US, the rest of the world would resist.

[HVAC Instructor]

No, I really don't have time to watch them. I comment between appointments and when I have some free time - but it really doesnt matter. I understand what you are saying about overpopulation and I think thats a bigger problem than any man-made effects of global warming, but its still something that would require wholesale changes to the societal fabric, developed over hundreds, if not thousands of years - that are pretty unrealistic to do. It would take hundreds of years for change to take hold. If the direction of change had anything to do with the US, the rest of the world would resist.

What a defeatist attitude. "Oh well...nothing we can do...it'll take too long and cost too much...let's just give up and accept our fate."

What happened to all that "American Exceptionalism" the righties here keep talking about?

[mugofbeer]

HVAC, its not defeatist, its a practical attitude. Unless you propose the entire world become totalitarian where the government has the power to dictate what you do, how you do it and when you do it, you aren't going to get certain segments of the world to stop having so many children. Its machismo, its ego, its status, political and its part of certain religions.

Couldn't say. Don't know what you are talking about since I think thats the first time I've ever seen that term. The last thing the US needs to do is to start dictating much of anything else to the rest of the world.

[HVAC Instructor]

HVAC, its not defeatist, its a practical attitude. Unless you propose the entire world become totalitarian where the government has the power to dictate what you do, how you do it and when you do it, you aren't going to get certain segments of the world to stop having so many children. Its machismo, its ego, its status, political and its part of certain religions.

Couldn't say. Don't know what you are talking about since I think thats the first time I've ever seen that term. The last thing the US needs to do is to start dictating much of anything else to the rest of the world.

OK, you think it can't be done and resign yourself to the status quo forever; after all, we've always done it that way, why change now.

Next!

Anybody else here think in terms of possibility, as opposed to defeatism? Surely there are some people who actually have some ideas out there????

[mugofbeer]

So what is it you propose to do? What parts of those videos do you feel are reasonable enough and possible to do? How much of your income are you prepared to give for the efforts? This is no different than the health care plans. Both sides of the legislature have their own plan with hundreds of pages of information. But there is still no real idea of how the system will work, no idea of how much its going to cost each of us, no realistic plan of how its going to benefit everyone, no data of how this massive new tax is going to affect our nations economy, and no real idea if its even going to work.

As I said before, the best example of what you propose is with communist China's one child policy. Even there, it only applies to urban areas and does not apply to rural Chinese. It has slowed population growth but that policy has had unintended consequences.

".....This rule has caused a disdain for female infants; abortion, neglect, abandonment, and even infanticide have been known to occur to female infants. The result of such Draconian family planning has resulted in the disparate ratio of 114 males for every 100 females among babies from birth through children four years of age. Normally, 105 males are naturally born for every 100 females."

The population growth rate in China has slowed, but at what cost?

[decepticobra]

interesting video, but this professor with all his calculations is forgetting one crucial factor: technology. There has been a lot of technological advances concerning energy consumption, and even more are coming in the years to come. The only real issue at hand is that the world may become so overcrowded by people that there may someday be an issue over available lands being occupied by people already: both living and the deceased. Have you ever done the calculations regarding just how many corpses/cemetaries it would take to fill up all of the land area in the U.S.? Consider that calculation by also considering the increasing rate of childbirth, death, and immigration: both naturalized and illegal and the numbers become a serious concern over time.

by the way, the student in the foreground at 7:48 looks a lot like the late Nick Berg,..creepy.

[HVAC Instructor]

interesting video, but this professor with all his calculations is forgetting one crucial factor: technology. There has been a lot of technological advances concerning energy consumption, and even more are coming in the years to come. The only real issue at hand is that the world may become so overcrowded by people that there may someday be an issue over available lands being occupied by people already: both living and the deceased. Have you ever done the calculations regarding just how many corpses/cemetaries it would take to fill up all of the land area in the U.S.? Consider that calculation by also considering the increasing rate of childbirth, death, and immigration: both naturalized and illegal and the numbers become a serious concern over time.

by the way, the student in the foreground at 7:48 looks a lot like the late Nick Berg,..creepy.

Actually the prof did address technology; maybe you missed those parts. There are a total of 8 videos.

I have wondered for years about how much real estated is used for cemetary's. What a waste of prime real estate. Cremation saves land....Hmmmm.....But does it contribute to global warmng? But OK, that's a worthy goal...carbon neutral cremation, LOL.

[Martin]

do you actually find your post rational and reasonable?

i'm sorry that you think a bit of levity is both irrational and unreasonable. to quote another movie... why so serious? (i've overused 'lighten up, francis' lately)

but... if kidding is not allowed, let's talk cold math. i'm quizzing you about your own video... what equation are you applying to world population growth?

-M

[gmwise]

bingo! -M

what is sad was I knew what it was and that dated most of us that did..lol

[gmwise]

And another example of when rational discussion ends.

pssst not exactly a death panel...but...

[Martin]

oh no, gmwise... it's turning black!

(oops... sorry, hvac)

-M

[gmwise]

nuh huh mine is rebooting ...damnit..thats my story and I am sticking to it.