No Public Safety Layoffs

[rcjunkie]

I have been on some other sites and most folks are saying they won't shop in Okc unless the have to. Most are going to warr acres, bethany, midwest city and moore/norman. Whats that say for the city of oklahoma city. Not good news.

POST MAPS3 BLUES, they'll be back shopping in OKC (that's if they even stop). The projects will be completed on time and on budget. In 7 years, we'll be talking about a possible MAPS4, what projects should be included, who's for it and who's against it. ONLY IN AMERICA

The best think however, is that by the time MAPS4 gets here, we'll have a Replublican back in the White House.

[OUGrad05]

I have been on some other sites and most folks are saying they won't shop in Okc unless the have to. Most are going to warr acres, bethany, midwest city and moore/norman. Whats that say for the city of oklahoma city. Not good news.

People say that stuff all the time and they rarely if ever do go someplace else, unless they live in one of those suburbs they'll spend more in gasoline then they'll save in tax.

[betts]

It's also usually such a small number of people that it's negligible anyway. And, they're going to have to do it for 7 years. Most people will forget in a few weeks.

[soonerguru]

The best think however, is that by the time MAPS4 gets here, we'll have a Replublican back in the White House

And we're feeling the effects of the last republican right now. Worst economy in 50 years, two wars, massive, crushing debt. Yeah, that worked out well.

It would be funny for the OKC sales tax boycotters to actually spend higher taxes elsewhere.

[OUGrad05]

And we're feeling the effects of the last republican right now. Worst economy in 50 years, two wars, massive, crushing debt. Yeah, that worked out well.

It would be funny for the OKC sales tax boycotters to actually spend higher taxes elsewhere.

Because this administration has been a bastion of fiscal sanity? Obama and his pals have taken the debt and deficit and used every excuse under the sun to make it worse. I'm pretty pissed at all hte idiots in DC and hope we have someone with some common sense and some real experience running a business/government something other than community organizing or daddy's oil money.

Obama inherited a nasty recession, but has done nothing of any consequence to help, he took a stimulus that could ahve been good and turned basically half of it into handouts for DNC doners and friends of the party and the other half into some stimulus full of inefficiency and illtargeted tax cuts and reforms.

I suppose all of this is offtopic for this thread though.

[Spartan]

I have been on some other sites and most folks are saying they won't shop in Okc unless the have to. Most are going to warr acres, bethany, midwest city and moore/norman. Whats that say for the city of oklahoma city. Not good news.

I've seen those comments too and they crack me up. Do these people even know what their sales tax goes to in Moore, MWC, Bethany, etc? Of course not. They just know it doesn't go towards something progressive (more than likely). And anyone who is going to boycott OKC stores to shop in Bethany, Warr Acres, MWC, Del City, etc .. well good luck with that. Have fun shopping at Wal-Mart the rest of your life.

[LordGerald]

Our Union President was notified by the Fire Chief on Friday the 11th and was told there will be no layoffs of personnel this fiscal year. This came from city manager Jim Couch. Can I say a hearty "Thank You"!!!!!!

I've heard otherwise. I believe come Tuesday there will be massive police and fire layoffs due to your breathren trying to sway the election.

Just telling you what I know.

[Mikemarsh51]

Loed Gerald, bless your heart!

[rcjunkie]

I've seen those comments too and they crack me up. Do these people even know what their sales tax goes to in Moore, MWC, Bethany, etc? Of course not. They just know it doesn't go towards something progressive (more than likely). And anyone who is going to boycott OKC stores to shop in Bethany, Warr Acres, MWC, Del City, etc .. well good luck with that. Have fun shopping at Wal-Mart the rest of your life.

In Cleveland CO. (S. OKC, Moore, Norman) part of the sales tax is going toward a New County Jail

[soonerguru]

Because this administration has been a bastion of fiscal sanity? Obama and his pals have taken the debt and deficit and used every excuse under the sun to make it worse. I'm pretty pissed at all hte idiots in DC and hope we have someone with some common sense and some real experience running a business/government something other than community organizing or daddy's oil money.

Obama inherited a nasty recession, but has done nothing of any consequence to help, he took a stimulus that could ahve been good and turned basically half of it into handouts for DNC doners and friends of the party and the other half into some stimulus full of inefficiency and illtargeted tax cuts and reforms.

I suppose all of this is offtopic for this thread though.

I agree the stimulus could have been much better. The goal, from what I understand, was to get something passed quickly, a difficult feat in Congress right now. The stimulus we got was what you would expect to come out of Congress.

But to be fair, some of the "handouts" to DNC donors went to things like state governments, highways, education, etc. A lot of them were public workers, yes. Did it stimulate the economy? Not as much as other things would have, perhaps, but it kept us from falling into a black hole, which, don't kid yourself, is where we were headed.

Oklahoma used it to balance its budget. It took $700 million in stimulus money to keep our own government operating. Would we have preferred to see hundreds if not thousands of public sector employees fired? That's what may have happened.

The point is, it is too early to declare the stimulus a failure or a success, but it certainly helped keep us out of the economic abyss, and at least action was taken before the crisis grew worse and multiplied.

Now, back to topic......

[Wambo36]

The real question is how badly were the police and fire union MAPS opponents lying to us on this board? Or, is the better question, how badly were the union leaders lying to their members? Either way, the dire predictions -- which were presented to this board as fact -- were clearly not true.

Those of us who questioned these dire predictions were treated as ignoramuses -- or even liars -- by the posters here who were peddling them. We were told the layoffs were a done deal. Obviously this was not the case.

To me, this is rather infuriating.

Soonerguru the claims which you have issue with didn't come down from our "union leaders" whom you would like to demonize. Those were the projections of the fire chief, who gets his info directly from the city manager.

If you felt you were being treated like an ignoramous or liar, it's because you were making projections out of thin air, unless you have some sort of direct line to the city managers office. Sorry we made you feel that way. The projection we were getting is exactly what the dept. heads were being told. We knew where the projections we were getting originated from, the city manager.
If you want to be infuriated, that might be a good place to start. In the mean time try to chill out, it's over.

[soonerguru]

OK, then. So you're saying you were mislead by the city manager on layoffs. Fine. My point is I doubt you will issue any mea culpas here for suggesting that it was a rock-solid truth that there would be layoffs of police and fire and that people in the NTM campaign were going door to door suggesting that MAPS would lead to additional police and fire layoffs. I'm thrilled there were no layoffs and thrilled that MAPS passed, so I'm moving on. It would be expecting too much for some of you to admit you were wrong.

[FritterGirl]

I have been on some other sites and most folks are saying they won't shop in Okc unless the have to. Most are going to warr acres, bethany, midwest city and moore/norman. Whats that say for the city of oklahoma city. Not good news.

Hey Bob,

I hear that argument, but don't they know they're only shooting themselves in their own foot?

Do they not understand where the City gets its operating (not just MAPS) funding dollars from? That the Police & Fire salaries and budgets for which they so valiantly fought are coming out of those same tax coffers? It's just a really bizarre case of irony that they want to protest MAPS (*ooh - let's stick it to the man*) by NOT shopping in OKC, but they're effectively hurting themselves by doing that very thing. If they want that 2% raise and to help get the basic budget back up to where it was pre-recession, they'd better make every effort possible to shop in OKC.

[kevinpate]

...

don't they know they're only shooting themselves in their own foot?

While I won't actively encourage anyone to diss their own city by coming here and skipping OKC, I just wanna say their tax dollars are welcome here in Norman any time they wanna come on down.

[Mikemarsh51]

Soonerguru, what is it you want us to say we are sorry for? Don't you think it was a little odd that the City manager told the dept. heads to make cuts around the time of Maps3? I don't know but if I was trying to sell something I would not have mentioned budget cuts until after the Maps3 election.

Fritterbabe, We never saw it as shooting ourselves in the foot. How much worse was it going to get? All the talk about all of the maps growing the city did not bode with us since we have steadily lost personnel since the end of the first maps. We needed to stand on the hill and scream to you that the city is not keeping up with growth.

[Wambo36]

OK, then. So you're saying you were mislead by the city manager on layoffs. Fine. It would be expecting too much for some of you to admit you were wrong.

Okay you're right, we were wrong for believing the city manager when he said there were going to be layoffs. That being said, he is the only person who can initiate layoffs so, I'm not sure what other conclusion you would have had us come to. We were wrong for taking him at his word.

[bluedogok]

Hey Bob,

I hear that argument, but don't they know they're only shooting themselves in their own foot?

Do they not understand where the City gets its operating (not just MAPS) funding dollars from? That the Police & Fire salaries and budgets for which they so valiantly fought are coming out of those same tax coffers? It's just a really bizarre case of irony that they want to protest MAPS (*ooh - let's stick it to the man*) by NOT shopping in OKC, but they're effectively hurting themselves by doing that very thing. If they want that 2% raise and to help get the basic budget back up to where it was pre-recession, they'd better make every effort possible to shop in OKC.

Too many people say they are willing to cut off their nose to spite their face but when it really comes down to it, that stuff is just a bunch of blowhards exhaust their opinion. The "may" for a little while but most go back to their normal routine. If they really act that way it just shows how ignorant of the real world they actually are.

[jbrown84]

People say that stuff all the time and they rarely if ever do go someplace else, unless they live in one of those suburbs they'll spend more in gasoline then they'll save in tax.

They're not saving anything. The sales tax is higher in all the suburbs, except maybe Warr Acres.

[MikeOKC]

I know Tulsa grounded their helicopter, but just from my perspective, purely anecdotal...I don't see our bird in the air near as often as I used to.
Seriously...is it just me?

[Mikemarsh51]

The sales tax is really all about the same. South of 89th we are already paying for our new jail. It will make a difference when the Oklahoma county jail tax goes into effect. When the new Crest at 104th opens life will be perfect.

[Larry OKC]

They're not saving anything. The sales tax is higher in all the suburbs, except maybe Warr Acres.

That is very close to being true (Warr Acres is barely higher, 8.50%). According to the City's MAPS 3 website, OKC has the #16th lowest sales tax rate in the Metro area (8.375%). Moore & Norman (8.25%), Del City (8.00%), Midwest City (7.80%) and Edmond (7.75%) are lower.

If we end up with a penny Okla. Co. sales tax for the County Jail that changes things a bit. OKC will have the 2nd highest tax rate (with 6 communities tied for #1).

[LakeEffect]

I know Tulsa grounded their helicopter, but just from my perspective, purely anecdotal...I don't see our bird in the air near as often as I used to.
Seriously...is it just me?

I agree. Maybe our crime rate is down... Hmmmm.

[LakeEffect]

I've heard otherwise. I believe come Tuesday there will be massive police and fire layoffs due to your breathren trying to sway the election.

Just telling you what I know.

Curious where you heard that... I've heard rumors that, in order to save (and maybe add) public safety positions, the other departments are looking at a huge cut for the next FY (July 1 2010 to June 30 2011).

[rcjunkie]

So much for Police and Fire budget cuts and MAPS3 not doing anything for Police and Fire. City Manager reports that thanks to MAPS3, the City will hire an additional 20 Police Officers and 10 Firefighters.

[OKCGUY3]

I will believe it when I see it!! Fire is now down 20 more people from last year. 5 retired this month. Many more retiring the next few months. NO RECRUIT SCHOOL PLANNED!!!!!! HIRING FREEZE!!!!! So, ten more won't even get us back to flush, and IF they started hiring today, it would be almost a year before those firefighters would be on the street.