Streetcar

[lonestarstatesux]

What about the idea of a loop and then in the future having LRT spokes coming off? For example, the loop would go around the SW side of downtown and people could get off at stop at NW corner of the new park, get on a LRT down to the airport? The LRT would be fast and need less stops, but still provide access to fun destinations like Stockyards at the couple/few stops it has on the way to the airport. I think this idea (streetcar loop - LRT spokes) would be a good mix and allow future connections/expansion.

[BDP]

It'll be interesting to see how the current trolley system plays into this. If the streetcar can sufficiently serve what is now being served by the red and blue lines downtown, maybe we can redirect those resources to extend our transit reach. The Orange line currently goes west to stockyards and meridian, maybe the Red and Blue lines can be extended out, one to, say, the adventure district and maybe another to the Paseo and up Western. They could be very tourist destination oriented with limited stops that give visitors quick access to some of the city's other hot spots outside of the core and serve as sort of express lines for residents feeding into the core and the new streetcar system. The trolleys could be used as sort of a bridge as we expand our rail transit system outward from the core.

[lasomeday]

Does the city have a master plan for Lightrail? I think that there is money in a national fund that we missed because we didn't have a plan earlier this year. I feel the surrounding counties and OKC need to get together and put together a master plan and be ready for any money that is available to expand/build light rail to connect Guthrie to Norman, Choctaw to El Reno, then maybe a diagonal through the airport to Mustang. This would connect 75%% of the metro. A rail line to the Northwest would be very hard without an existing rail line or ROW going on that diagonal.

Here is a website that might help us get more money for our MAPS money for our streetcar system. The city could utilize these grants to possibly double miles!

Federal Transit Administration - Grant Programs

[flintysooner]

Here's the link to the Fixed Guideway Study: OKFGS.org

[LordGerald]

Here's the link to the Fixed Guideway Study: OKFGS.org

Actually, this is the link to the Fixed Guideway Study:

Programs and Services > Transportation and Data Services > Fixed Guideway Systems

[flintysooner]

Actually, this is the link to the Fixed Guideway Study:

Programs and Services > Transportation and Data Services > Fixed Guideway Systems

Thanks. Didn't have that one.

[brianinok]

I don't know what exactly the city wants, but I think it's important to remember two things: (1) we have to assume this is the first phase, and (2) for it to be successful (and therefore get citizens to support future phases) it needs to hit a great number of highlights. Here are some things I think it should be within 2 block or less of (or right in front of if can be done efficiently):

• Every existing hotel
• Ford Center
• Cox Convention Center
• New Convention Center
• Central Park
• Every major skyscraper downtown
• Myriad Gardens
• New OCU Law School
• County Courthouse
• Federal Courthouse
• OKC National Memorial
• New Federal Office Building
• Bricktown Ballpark
• Most Bricktown restaurants/clubs
• Harkins Theater
• OKC Museum of Art
• Civic Center
• Downtown Library
• Presbyterian Research Park
• OU Health Sciences Center
• St. Anthony Hospital
• Boathouse Row

I would like to include the State Capitol Complex, a line or two up to 23rd/OCU, etc. but you can't fit everything in phase 1. So, after playing around with some routes tonight, I came up with the following, which is 5.9 miles long. I stuck to a hub and spoke system since the mayor has stated that is his preference. I assumed a transit hub at/along Santa Fe Station. I used 3 lines, all running through the hub. I think one of the keys is multiple lines using the same tracks for part of their run, otherwise 5-6 miles runs out quickly. I think phase two could including the following:

• Extend east Green line to State Capitol
• Extend south Blue line to Oklahoma River
• Extend north Blue line and west Green line to some combination of NW 23rd, OCU, Paseo
• Extend west Red line to Oklahoma River or Stockyards City

Anyway, feel free to crucify it, discuss it, or whatever.

Edit: Okay, the map should show up just above, but it doesn't. I inserted an image, which had me put in its website. Any idea why it won't come up?? Perhaps I'll try it as an attachment.....

[blangtang]

man i sure hope whoever ends up deciding the route knows what they are doing

[wsucougz]

man i sure hope whoever ends up deciding the route knows what they are doing

No worries - I heard the mayor is bringing in our very own Thunder and LIL_WAYNE_4_PREZ to lead the project.

[jbrown84]

No worries - I heard the mayor is bringing in our very own Thunder and LIL_WAYNE_4_PREZ to lead the project.

The rear of the car will have a Burger King Express, and the whole thing will be a giant fountain on the outside.

[wsucougz]

The rear of the car will have a Burger King Express, and the whole thing will be a giant fountain on the outside.

That pretty well sums it up. Thread closed.

[Spartan]

I don't know what exactly the city wants, but I think it's important to remember two things: (1) we have to assume this is the first phase, and (2) for it to be successful (and therefore get citizens to support future phases) it needs to hit a great number of highlights. Here are some things I think it should be within 2 block or less of (or right in front of if can be done efficiently):

• Every existing hotel
• Ford Center
• Cox Convention Center
• New Convention Center
• Central Park
• Every major skyscraper downtown
• Myriad Gardens
• New OCU Law School
• County Courthouse
• Federal Courthouse
• OKC National Memorial
• New Federal Office Building
• Bricktown Ballpark
• Most Bricktown restaurants/clubs
• Harkins Theater
• OKC Museum of Art
• Civic Center
• Downtown Library
• Presbyterian Research Park
• OU Health Sciences Center
• St. Anthony Hospital
• Boathouse Row

I would like to include the State Capitol Complex, a line or two up to 23rd/OCU, etc. but you can't fit everything in phase 1. So, after playing around with some routes tonight, I came up with the following, which is 5.9 miles long. I stuck to a hub and spoke system since the mayor has stated that is his preference. I assumed a transit hub at/along Santa Fe Station. I used 3 lines, all running through the hub. I think one of the keys is multiple lines using the same tracks for part of their run, otherwise 5-6 miles runs out quickly. I think phase two could including the following:

• Extend east Green line to State Capitol
• Extend south Blue line to Oklahoma River
• Extend north Blue line and west Green line to some combination of NW 23rd, OCU, Paseo
• Extend west Red line to Oklahoma River or Stockyards City

Anyway, feel free to crucify it, discuss it, or whatever.

Edit: Okay, the map should show up just above, but it doesn't. I inserted an image, which had me put in its website. Any idea why it won't come up?? Perhaps I'll try it as an attachment.....

Even though I favor the loop over the hub and spoke system, I like this (the attachment with your post). I do question if it's really only 5.9 miles, but if it is, that's awesome.

[betts]

Although I like all the areas covered by the design, I suspect someone is going to want the line to go closer to Union Station, and, if we build a convention center anywhere else, I think you almost have to have it stop there. Otherwise, you've got all the spots I'd like to see accessed on your plan, and since it's not a closed loop it would be very easy to add on to it.

[andy157]

Although I like all the areas covered by the design, I suspect someone is going to want the line to go closer to Union Station, and, if we build a convention center anywhere else, I think you almost have to have it stop there. Otherwise, you've got all the spots I'd like to see accessed on your plan, and since it's not a closed loop it would be very easy to add on to it.

I've been holding off asking this question because it will show I haven't paid much attention to the transit issue. This map shows the various lines making 90 degree turns, I would have thought they had to travel in more of a straight line. They will be on fixed rail won't they?

[Urban Pioneer]

Yes, the streetcars are on rail but they make bent (curved rail) that can make corner turn.

[Urban Pioneer]

Although I like all the areas covered by the design, I suspect someone is going to want the line to go closer to Union Station, and, if we build a convention center anywhere else, I think you almost have to have it stop there. Otherwise, you've got all the spots I'd like to see accessed on your plan, and since it's not a closed loop it would be very easy to add on to it.

I couldn't find any pictures, a friend was telling me that the San Diego streetcar actually traverses through their convention center thus providing direct disenbarkment and entry within the building itself.

[workman45]

I couldn't find any pictures, a friend was telling me that the San Diego streetcar actually traverses through their convention center thus providing direct disenbarkment and entry within the building itself.

That would be really cool.

[betts]

I wasn't sure it it is workable, but if we used the Cotton Mill site as the convention center, I was wondering if you could somehow have the transit hub either attached or adjacent. It's very close to the intersection of north-south/east-west rail lines that we've got, and that would make a logical location for a hub, if the Santa Fe building is too small (not sure if that's the case or not)

[Urban Pioneer]

Bingo Betts! Logical possibility. The hub study will reflect the right choice. I would say though their mght be some resistence from the Convention Center folk if they think it will affect spending on square feet.

[hoya]

If we combined the convention center and the hub, couldn't we save costs and just make the single building larger?

[bdhumphreys]

I do advocate for linear lines as they are more easily expandable versus loops and the mayor supports that concept.

I am also a proponent of a linear line concept.

In choosing the location of the lines, I think it is important to determine what we are trying to accomplish with the streetcar system. Certainly, connecting some popular, relatively high-traffic nodes is important, but the streetcar is likely to provide the most long-term value to the city if we use it as an impetus for new development at densities that can sustain transit into the future.

Thus, while Sheridan between Bricktown and the new Devon Tower is an obvious segment, it would be advantageous to extend the line further west along Sheridan and/or Main to catalyze that area (which it seems is a requisite of the OCU Law School proposal). Also, N. Broadway has the right-of-way and a wonderful mix of built fabric, but remains mostly underdeveloped. Streetcar along this stretch would have a major impact, and could be extended south along Robinson, in the future, to tie into the Central Park area and eventually the Oklahoma River.

--

On a different note, just to throw some outside-the-box thought, what if we connected Bricktown to Penn Square Mall via Sheridan and Classen (which is 6.1 miles). Then you would give downtown residents access to everything, including multiple grocery stores. Dense historic neighborhoods along Classen, which were built for streetcar, would be able to commute to work. And Penn Square could serve as a park&ride facility that is convenient to thousands.

See route: from:sheridan and mickey mantle to:35.466542,-97.526751 toenn square mall - Google Maps

This is not necessarily my favorite route, but it does have some advantages.

[soonerguru]

I couldn't find any pictures, a friend was telling me that the San Diego streetcar actually traverses through their convention center thus providing direct disenbarkment and entry within the building itself.

Doesn't the one in Denver do that too?

[bdhumphreys]

I couldn't find any pictures, a friend was telling me that the San Diego streetcar actually traverses through their convention center thus providing direct disenbarkment and entry within the building itself.

Not sure on San Diego, but this is true of the Denver Convention Center.

[bdhumphreys]

Whoops, soonerguru beat me to it.

[MikeOKC]

Bingo Betts! Logical possibility. The hub study will reflect the right choice. I would say though their mght be some resistence from the Convention Center folk if they think it will affect spending on square feet.

I agree that Betts is on the right track. (Don't you love puns?)

I would also think instead of opposing something like that, the convention center people would think of it as a win/win kind of thing. It makes a lot of sense.