Streetcar

[Urban Pioneer]

I think that it is now time to retire the thread "Mass Transit Announcement" and start a thread on the progress of the newly approved transit initiative.

As you can imagine, there will be a great deal of public dialogue and input solicited.

[Urban Pioneer]

Streetcar projects eligible for new USDOT grants

Yesterday, the U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT) announced $280 million is available in federal grants for urban circulator projects, such as streetcar and bus systems.

The money represents the first batch of funding provided by the Obama Administration through the Livability Initiative, a joint venture comprising USDOT, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, and U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

The Federal Transit Administration (FTA) will provide a maximum of $25 million per streetcar or other urban circulator project using discretionary funds from the New Starts/Small Starts program. The administration will place priority on projects that “connect destinations and foster the redevelopment of communities into walkable, mixed-use, high-density environments,” according to a prepared statement.

The FTA expects to announce grant recipients in early 2010.

[okclee]

Since MAPS 3 includes 5 to 6 miles of streetcar.

What is everyones opinion to the ideal route for these 5 to 6 miles?

[LakeEffect]

Streetcar projects eligible for new USDOT grants

Yesterday, the U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT) announced $280 million is available in federal grants for urban circulator projects, such as streetcar and bus systems.

The money represents the first batch of funding provided by the Obama Administration through the Livability Initiative, a joint venture comprising USDOT, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, and U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

The Federal Transit Administration (FTA) will provide a maximum of $25 million per streetcar or other urban circulator project using discretionary funds from the New Starts/Small Starts program. The administration will place priority on projects that “connect destinations and foster the redevelopment of communities into walkable, mixed-use, high-density environments,” according to a prepared statement.

The FTA expects to announce grant recipients in early 2010.

Isn't that press release a week or two old?

[Urban Pioneer]

Tentatively, the goal is to connect major neighborhoods, districts, and employment centers in the central city area together. Also, to design the system to be easily expanded into other areas.

[Urban Pioneer]

Isn't that press release a week or two old?

It is. But it is particularly relevant now as we will have the matching funds to begin to pursue additional federal funds to build an even bigger system and reach further areas. It is the first wave of funding announced specifically including streetcars in any recent history.

[Platemaker]

This route is right at 6 miles, follows very closely to the Fixed Guideway Study, but includes Broadway and less 'jogs'. I think it would be a very easy to learn system.

Downtown... you'd be within 1.5 blocks of the streetcar no matter where you were.

[mugofbeer]

Is it proposed to be a street car (a la the vintage system on McKinney Ave in Dallas) or a street level light rail system?

[Pete]

That's a solid proposal, Platemaker.

I know we only will have so much money but it sure would be nice to extend it north from Saint Anthony's to 23rd or even 36th, as it would greatly help 23rd Street, The Paseo and all those great historical neighborhoods.

I could see a loop added on in the vein, then circling back towards the Capitol.

[Platemaker]

Is it proposed to be a street car (a la the vintage system on McKinney Ave in Dallas) or a street level light rail system?

a MODERN streetcar

[Urban Pioneer]

Is it proposed to be a street car (a la the vintage system on McKinney Ave in Dallas) or a street level light rail system?

It is the modern more European system currently only employed in Tacoma, Seattle, and Portland.

Watch the video on the left of the page at-

Welcome | Modern Transit Project in Oklahoma City

about the Seattle Streetcar System. It gives a quick and excellent explanation about the type of system that is proposed.

[mugofbeer]

OK, its like a single car light rail in Denver, SLC or Dallas.

[Platemaker]

Not exactly... I'm suprised you haven't visited... Welcome | Modern Transit Project in Oklahoma City

[okclee]

Urban Pioneer, what is your opinion for the 5 to 6 mile route?

[mugofbeer]

Not exactly... I'm suprised you haven't visited... Welcome | Modern Transit Project in Oklahoma City

Just saw the video. There are portions of each of the systems I listed in the respective Downtown areas that are at street level and operate the way the video portrays. Those systems all have 2-3 cars. These just look like one-car versions of the same thing.

[PLANSIT]

OK, its like a single car light rail in Denver, SLC or Dallas.

Yes, single vehicle, but with low-level boarding and articulation capabilities. Operates at-grade for nearly all of its line.

[PLANSIT]

Just saw the video. There are portions of each of the systems I listed in the respective Downtown areas that are at street level and operate the way the video portrays. Those systems all have 2-3 cars. These just look like one-car versions of the same thing.

Right, but Modern Streetcars are utilized in very urban, at-grade environments. LRT can do both, however, the more vehicles you have, length and turn ability becomes a problem. If a train is 4 cars long, it just doesn't work as well in short block scenarios. Hence, Modern Streetcar, 1 car, articulated, level boarding, and runs at slower speeds.

[mugofbeer]

Right, I know ours would only be a single car system running at-grade. Thats what I have been saying.

[PLANSIT]

This route is right at 6 miles, follows very closely to the Fixed Guideway Study, but includes Broadway and less 'jogs'. I think it would be a very easy to learn system.

Downtown... you'd be within 1.5 blocks of the streetcar no matter where you were.

You can't cross the BNSF at 13th. You'd have to build an overpass, which would blow the budget. 4th, 5th, or 23rd are your best bets.

[PLANSIT]

Right, I know ours would only be a single car system running at-grade. Thats what I have been saying.

But we've been saying that Modern Streetcar =/= LRT. They overlap in functionality in many areas, but they are not the same.

[okclee]

Plansit,

Why do you feel it is necessary to run the transit to the state capitol?

[Urban Pioneer]

Urban Pioneer, what is your opinion for the 5 to 6 mile route?

Well, to be honest, I would like to keep my opinion to myself and allow public dialogue and engineering analysis to determine the route.

I will say that I advocate for the best use of the money that is before us. What may look like a great route/street to traverse down may be quite expensive because of underground utility relocation needs and such. That is why the engineering analysis will be so important.

I do advocate for linear lines as they are more easily expandable versus loops and the mayor supports that concept.

Project 180 may offer some great opportunities for "shared" costs or at least reasonable preparations for streetcar lines.

Example: Design light poles and electrical services in 180 so that they can easily accommodate power infrastructure.

[okclee]

Urban,

To me you are part of the public dialogue, but I can respect you witholding your opinion.

Now for the "linear lines", can you please explain in more detail this concept?

[Urban Pioneer]

Urban,

Now for the "linear lines", can you please explain in more detail this concept?

A closed loop is harder to expand. If you want to expand it, you end up with a circle with "spokes" off of it. Also, a loop tends to become a "ride".

I am not saying that a "hub and spoke" system is the best, but it does make sense for us to consider developing a rail transit hub were there is one centralized place that all routes efficiently merge.

Also, that doesn't mean that streetcar lines can't cross one another further out in the city thus creating "transfer points", but in the initial system, much of the streetcar will be "downtown centric".

[PLANSIT]

Plansit,

Why do you feel it is necessary to run the transit to the state capitol?

That's not my map, it's Platemaker's. I personally wouldn't run it to the Capitol, just to OUHSC/OU Med, Midtown, DT, and Bricktown for now.