Trying to be gracious

[soonerguru]

But I think I would like to take the opportunity to gloat for just a minute. Hey trolls, I hope you've enjoyed your time on OKCTalk!

Iron76, Wambo, Barnold, etc. I'm doing my happy dance right now.

I told you guys this was a quixotic effort on your part and will backfire ultimately. You tried to screw the citizens by killing MAPS, and now you've failed. Now, good luck coming to the citizens asking for help.

I still support what you do, but it will take me a while to get over your scorched-earth approach to MAPS.

[Midtowner]

I'm actually ready to put all of this behind me and be the bigger man. I told a friend of mine (police officer) that I'd be just as fervently for a *permanent* tax increase to benefit emergency services as I was for MAPS and I wasn't kidding. If nothing else, I think police and fire have brought some serious issues to our attention -- issues which need to be addressed quickly. We won. Great. But what without top-notch police and fire departments, having the coolest toys in our city ain't gonna be worth much.

These emergency services really do need our support. Despite the wrongheaded approach of the union bosses trying to impose their will on the city, they did have real issues.

I hope we can all work together to address whatever issues need to be addressed with our emergency services. And if that means a tax hike? Then so be it.

[soonerguru]

I'm actually ready to put all of this behind me and be the bigger man. I told a friend of mine (police officer) that I'd be just as fervently for a *permanent* tax increase to benefit emergency services as I was for MAPS and I wasn't kidding. If nothing else, I think police and fire have brought some serious issues to our attention -- issues which need to be addressed quickly. We won. Great. But what without top-notch police and fire departments, having the coolest toys in our city ain't gonna be worth much.

These emergency services really do need our support. Despite the wrongheaded approach of the union bosses trying to impose their will on the city, they did have real issues.

I hope we can all work together to address whatever issues need to be addressed with our emergency services. And if that means a tax hike? Then so be it.

I agree, but they were jerks over here and I'm going to just enjoy the moment for a while.

Heck, all of us probably would have supported their requests, but we don't approve of their method. For tonight, I want to enjoy the feeling that their negative approach was repudiated. It would have been a travesty if their efforts had been successful.

Tomorrow, I move on, but with a weary eye, all the wiser for this experience.

[Thundercitizen]

Despite the wrongheaded approach of the union bosses trying to impose their will on the city, they did have real issues.

This was the only real beef I had with our opposition.

[Midtowner]

I agree, but they were jerks over here and I'm going to just enjoy the moment for a while.

A few bad apples on an internet message board =/= "they."

"They" do have awfully difficult and dangerous jobs and they do deserve our respect and support for doing those jobs. "They" were wrong for opposing MAPS, but I think "their" hearts were truly in the right place.

[brianinok]

I certainly won't be supporting any permanent tax for the police or fire. Not when they can start working five 8-hour days like the rest of us and not have any staffing issues.

[proud2Bsooner]

Police and fire unions have done a great job of alienating the "heros" from the citizens. Before this I had no idea that they were so unionized. I will never see them in the same light. They seriously need to look at their leadership.

[Midtowner]

I certainly won't be supporting any permanent tax for the police or fire. Not when they can start working five 8-hour days like the rest of us and not have any staffing issues.

If that's your attitude, I hope you're on the losing end of a 9 1/2 minute average response time for an emergency call...

Really -- even if you have the best of the best security systems, it's going to be about 15 minutes before the police can get to your house after someone kicks in your door.

How much of your stuff can be stolen in 15 minutes?

I spend a lot more than I would with a %.5 or %.75 or even %1 sales tax per year on security monitoring, which is of questionable value than I would spend to get adequate police and fire protection.

An additional sales tax for emergency services is really a no-brainer.

[adaniel]

Mid,

You summed up my thoughts almost perfectly. With that being said, I have always been very supportive of police and fire fighters, and I have two uncles who are retired cops (one in Tulsa, one here in OKC). Also, as a democrat, albiet a somewhat conservative one, I have generally been supportive of unions. This whole ordeal has made me sour very badly on both. It is very obvious that the union bosses took legitimate concerns of the FD and PD and thought that it could "screw the man" and spook the city into giving them more money. When certain groups are so blinded by their own self interests they are willing to screw up their own long term future, you are asking for disaster and cities start to go downhill. If you want an example of this, look about 110 miles up the Turner Turnpike.

I guess I should be glad that all of the problems with the city's FD and PD have been brought to the surface. I admit, I really haven't been in OKC long enough to think about it but I was always under the impression the FD and PD had a decent working relationship with city hall. Obviously that isn't the case. But our public service officials need to be careful about what avenues they use to solve their issues. Because for at least one person, they have lost a lot of respect with the way they did it this time around

[mugofbeer]

Hate to say it but this is exactly what is wrong with union mentality. Unions seem to have a propensity for riding the ship down and taking the membership with them after it is hopelessly sunk, even when there are lifeboats all around.

There are simply times that unions need to work with others and recognize when reality has changed - such as with our economy.

But, like politicians, they will cling to their power until the power is switched completely off.

[soonerguru]

A few bad apples on an internet message board =/= "they."

"They" do have awfully difficult and dangerous jobs and they do deserve our respect and support for doing those jobs. "They" were wrong for opposing MAPS, but I think "their" hearts were truly in the right place.

Hey, please spare me the lecture. They ran a dirty, moronic campaign and they lost. It's perfectly OK for me to enjoy that fact tonight.

I'll try to be reasonable tomorrow, but tonight is not the time.

Also, I said on the board if they went after MAPS I would actively work to undermine any future pay raise plans they would have. I've backed off that, but I do hope this is the last time they pull this crap on the citizens. WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SUPPORTIVE OF THEM. They have alienated us, not the city.

But for tonight, I'm going to enjoy the victory, and savor not being harassed by the trolls.

[Popsy]

Would you spend another penny for a new jail also?

[Midtowner]

They seriously need to look at their leadership.

Whoever their leadership is should be irrelevant. What is relevant is whether our emergency services are provisioned well enough to respond to our needs.

A few months ago, a good friend of mine was involved in a serious 3-car accident at 23rd and Broadway -- just a few hundred feet away from the fire station.

I was at my office over on 13th street late that night when he called me right after he had called 911. I dropped what I was doing and actually beat the fire department to the scene of the accident -- and I have never felt more like an ambulance chaser since that incident.

But really... things could be a lot better with our emergency services. Those folks are doing their best to get it right. The police and fire departments in OKC are staffed with what I think are the best of the best -- and they're doing the best they can on a shoestring budget. They need and deserve more.

[Midtowner]

Would you spend another penny for a new jail also?

Well, we're buying a new jail whether we want to or not. I'd MUCH rather have a sales tax and have 30% of that paid by out of towners than I'd want to have a special assessment made against my property when the feds swoop in and do their thing.

I'm just concerned that the county is looking at building the jail all the way out in Choctaw. That'd be lots more miles on my car visiting clients...

[soonerguru]

and they're doing the best they can on a shoestring budget.

You can't be serious. A little exaggerated?

[fire121]

A few bad apples on an internet message board =/= "they."

Thank You

[proud2Bsooner]

My point is that their leadership has made them look pretty bad. I grew up in a union family, so I know first hand how unions brainwash their members. I have only de-programmed my dad in the last couple of years...he has been retired for 10 years. He voted yes today btw.

They had so many other better ways to go about this. Holding a gun to the City's head. Their tactics were so obvious. So now they have likely taken a few steps back. It was a big gamble that did not pay off in the slightest.

[hoya]

Well, we're buying a new jail whether we want to or not. I'd MUCH rather have a sales tax and have 30% of that paid by out of towners than I'd want to have a special assessment made against my property when the feds swoop in and do their thing.

I'm just concerned that the county is looking at building the jail all the way out in Choctaw. That'd be lots more miles on my car visiting clients...

Yeah, no joke. That's a long drive to see people. It's nice having it near the courthouse.

[flintysooner]

Well, we're buying a new jail whether we want to or not. I'd MUCH rather have a sales tax and have 30% of that paid by out of towners than I'd want to have a special assessment made against my property when the feds swoop in and do their thing.

I agree. And especially since it also would be a temporary tax even if it is for several years.

And I don't see why we wouldn't pass a smaller permanent increase to better fund police and fire. But I would like to see both sides of the issue. I think the police and fire side is pretty clear. I am hoping the City side will eventually be presented but it hasn't happened so far.

[mugofbeer]

I wonder if they would be doing this with a pay-as-you-go tax vs. a bond issue? With the overcrowding around the country in jails, I wonder if they couldn't help pay for the facility by leasing it out for out of town and out of state prisoners?

[brianinok]

Police and fire unions have done a great job of alienating the "heros" from the citizens. Before this I had no idea that they were so unionized. I will never see them in the same light. They seriously need to look at their leadership.

This.

And spare me the lack of response time argument. I have been in two auto accidents in recent years (neither my fault by the way) and had adequate response time in both. I don't doubt there are instances where it is not fast enough. But that is mainly a lack of funding for more officers and firemen. A study has already determined that if they start working five 8-hour days rather than four 10-hour days this problem is alleviated. As the city sales tax collections grows in the coming years, the police and fire will get more money anyway since they get something like 2/3 of the sales tax already.

If they need more money still, I want to see figures and a list of things they need and why they need them. Saying "we won't support MAPS because we want more money" will not cut it with me (or 54% of this city). What will cut it with me is an intelligent conversation based on facts, figures, and without political posturing. Acting like they did in this campaign will get them a no vote from me faster than a kayak on the Oklahoma River.

[soonerguru]

Iron76, we would love to hear from you tonight!

Wambo, where art thou?

Just having a little fun.

[brianinok]

soonerguru, you are hilarious. Way to have fun tonight!

[Patrick]

Iron76, we would love to hear from you tonight!

Wambo, where art thou?

Just having a little fun.

My guess is they were here for their own agenda, and didn't really care about the city or the welfare of this website. Typical union tactics. Doubt they'll be back. Andy is different though.

[Midtowner]

Iron76, we would love to hear from you tonight!

Wambo, where art thou?

Just having a little fun.

Iron76 is banned.

As for the others, I'm 100% willing to support whatever they're running up the flagpole to better fund police and fire.