Oklahoman offers ‘paid volunteer leave’ for employees campaigning for MAPS 3

[okcpulse]

At least mike can admit it! like little sheep you all are....BAAAAAAA

It's bad folks no matter what side you are on. Follow the money! It's a shame. This City is in trouble as long as our current leaders foster this CLOSE city government/Private business relationship. The lines get blurred to easily and then citizens get left behind.

If we were voting for something that could MAKE this city money. Like a NASCAR track or the largest amusement park in the world. I'd understand a little more and I'm not a NASCAR fan. Voting for MONEY pits? I just don't understand this stuff. I guess people from all around this country are going to come to OKC and use our FREE park, trails, and aquatic centers....LOL..What a joke.

That's what's happening. Why do you think they've garnered every connected person they can think of and are running dramatic speeches and commercials.

Oh well. A few short days and we'll be done. Whether it's MAPS YES OR NO. The same disgusting relationship will be steering this city and not it's citizens. Only a select few and that's truly a shame.

Every city fosters a public/private relationship with local companies. It's how the world works. Those private companies employ people in the private world, people like me.

The $700 million that OKC just finished forking over for OKCPS improves the educational environment, but does it make the city MONEY? No, but what it does is create a better environment for children to thrive in learning.

Maybe you don't understand the concept of quality of life, but I do. There is a difference between some lame ass corner green patch that's called a "park" that has a swingset and monkey bars. Oklahoma City has enough of those.

More trails and a white water course? More opportunities for people to get outdoors. Maybe lop off some pounds and in turn lower their medical costs which lowers our medical costs, which means less 911 calls to emergency services whenever they have a medical breakdown from obesity or smoking their heads off, which leads to less stress on your staffing shortage. I mean, every smoker I've known who gets out and starts exercising begins complaining about their lung shortage, and eventually they push themselves to stop smoking.

New convention center? More convention BUSINESS. Who wants to set up exhibits in a boring concrete lockbox whose dimensions rarely meet today's convention standards? The ballrooms are just too damn small. But all conventions, by rule of thumb, bring in money from out of town. Well, what do ya know, it DOES make us money. A NASCAR track is a $1 billion venture that is taken on by private entreprenuers, not by the city.

[Larry OKC]

As has been stated several times, the same study that says the police are understaffed by 200 officers also states that if they switch from their current 10 hour day, 4 days a week schedule to the more common 8 hour day, 5 days a week schedule, they would be OVERSTAFFED by 78 officers,

Someone help explain the math on that one (or post the info from the study). On the face, it doesn't seem to make any sense. Doesn't it take the same number of personnel to cover the shifts in any 24 hr period (no matter how the period is divided up)? By that I mean while more bodies are going in and out, at any one time there is the same number of bodies "clocked in".

Also, what F/P department works a "common 8 hour day, 5 days a week schedule"? This is common in the private sector but not in these types of positions. They work something like 2 days on and 3 days off (24 hrs shifts) don't they? Please correct if wrong on this.

Have seen articles that stated that it was cheaper for the City to continue with the admitted manpower shortage and pay over time etc than it would cost for additional employees and benefits.

[rcjunkie]

Someone help explain the math on that one (or post the info from the study). On the face, it doesn't seem to make any sense. Doesn't it take the same number of personnel to cover the shifts in any 24 hr period (no matter how the period is divided up)? By that I mean while more bodies are going in and out, at any one time there is the same number of bodies "clocked in".

Also, what F/P department works a "common 8 hour day, 5 days a week schedule"? This is common in the private sector but not in these types of positions. They work something like 2 days on and 3 days off (24 hrs shifts) don't they? Please correct if wrong on this.

Have seen articles that stated that it was cheaper for the City to continue with the admitted manpower shortage and pay over time etc than it would cost for additional employees and benefits.

This disagreement is talking about POLICE STAFFING not FIRE, the police Departments of surrounding Cities work 8 hours shifts, and they don't have take home cars.

[JustTheFactsPlease]

Your department has sustained a 2 percent cut, the same as all city government. TWO PERCENT. IN the WORST ECONOMIC CONDITIONS SINCE THE GREAT DEPRESSION.

No pay cut. No layoffs. Not even furloughs.

You don't live in reality if you think this is bad. For people in state government, the average budget cut is 12 percent. People are being furloughed. People are getting fired. People are working overtime without pay.

Get a grip. Even people in the private sector are suffering.

We know how much cops and fire get paid. They get paid well, as they should.

This recession will end, and if MAPS is passed, our city will continue to grow its revenue base, and pay raises and additional personnel will be possible.

Excuse me but what part of BUDGET CUT do you not understand???

Layoffs and furloughs are EXACTLY what Mr. Couch has been saying while going around the city in talks to the city employees and that is what Mr Couch is saying WILL HAPPEN! So are you saying Mr.Couch is lying? That the city is not cutting budgets, not facing furloughs, not laying off, not cutting pay by no raises but increased payouts for benefits? The city always says that the benefits package is a part of the city employees wage so if we get no raise and an increased fee to pay for benefits then ... ding ding ding... pay cut!

And actually, since there has been a hiring freeze (from The City of OKC's mouth) for almost a year then ding ding ding... that means we are short employees already from almost a year's worth of attrition. Attrition: a gradual reduction in work force without firing of personnel, as when workers resign or retire and are not replaced.

Yes, we are all hurting and in hurting times there are more crimes and who is going to come out and help if we do not have adequate staffing? Hmmm? And the new visitors this will bring? Who is going to protect them?

What great publicity I see in the future:

"Those dumb Okies passed a new tax for Visitor Frills and did not put in to place adequate funding for safety in an already safety short city so now crime is at an all time high in OKC and visitors are being mugged, shot, robbed, car jacked, etc. Do not visit OKC unless you like to visit in FEAR..."


That would just project us so favorably, now huh? World Class City at its best!

Again, we can't afford to pay for dinner so why are we buying dessert?

[betts]

We actually have pretty decent crime statistics compared to most cities our size. I looked them up. Visitor frills actually put more money in the pockets of the police and fire departments, because those visitors pay 3/4 of a cent of every dollar they spend to the policemen and firemen. Anything that brings more visitors in to the city helps us all. Some cities like New Orleans (not that we have a chance of aspiring to be New Orleans in the tourism department) virtually run their cities on tourist dollars, so it's nothing to be sneezed at.

A rising tide lifts all boats. Anything that helps our city economy helps all of our city employees.

[soonerguru]

Excuse me but what part of BUDGET CUT do you not understand???

I understand perfectly well. That's why I mentioned the 2 percent cut. Learn to read and stop yelling. You may have cardiac arrest.

Layoffs and furloughs are EXACTLY what Mr. Couch has been saying while going around the city in talks to the city employees and that is what Mr Couch is saying WILL HAPPEN! So are you saying Mr.Couch is lying?

I wasn't aware of the plan, but if so, welcome to the club. Numerous state agencies are already doing these. In other states, people are getting laid off. Join the club. And I have had no commentary about Mr. Couch, so I don't know what you're talking about.

And actually, since there has been a hiring freeze (from The City of OKC's mouth) for almost a year then ding ding ding... that means we are short employees already from almost a year's worth of attrition. Attrition: a gradual reduction in work force without firing of personnel, as when workers resign or retire and are not replaced.

Oh, wow. A whole year. Well state government has had one since 1992. I feel so sorry for you. And wow, eliminating jobs by attrition. Again, you have it so rough considering the fact this happens everywhere else.

What great publicity I see in the future:

"Those dumb Okies passed a new tax for Visitor Frills and did not put in to place adequate funding for safety in an already safety short city so now crime is at an all time high in OKC and visitors are being mugged, shot, robbed, car jacked, etc. Do not visit OKC unless you like to visit in FEAR..."

You're so melodramatic. I don't suppose you read the New York Times, Washington Post, etc., but the amount of press our city has generated in the last few years, mostly due to MAPS, is staggering.

Quite contrary to your angry, hysterical post, I'm sure OKC will get very, very good press for becoming one of the elite destinations for rowing in the United States, for having the only wind-power-generated transit system, for having a world-class destination park, etc. We know this will happen because we've received great publicity for less. And the angle will be that we had the vision to do this despite the recession.

Now run along now, JustTheFacts. I can see with your FOUR WHOLE POSTS on this board you are a troll who has been sent here to politick. The regular users of this site aren't so dumb as to fall for your flimsy arguments. We know you're just another NTM troll.

[JustTheFactsPlease]

We actually have pretty decent crime statistics compared to most cities our size. I looked them up. Visitor frills actually put more money in the pockets of the police and fire departments, because those visitors pay 3/4 of a cent of every dollar they spend to the policemen and firemen. Anything that brings more visitors in to the city helps us all. Some cities like New Orleans (not that we have a chance of aspiring to be New Orleans in the tourism department) virtually run their cities on tourist dollars, so it's nothing to be sneezed at.

A rising tide lifts all boats. Anything that helps our city economy helps all of our city employees.

Where are you getting your facts? Waiting hours for the police to respond to calls is not good and not right. In fact, I am still waiting a couple of years later now for the police to still respond to some of my 911 calls! YEARS and still no response!

How is the visitor count and increased spent by visitors adding people to the police and fire department?

If you have this information - please share.

Thanks!

[purplemonkeythief]

We know this will happen because we've received great publicity for less.

And we're receiving some not-so-great publicity for the unethical practices by the Oklahoman on behalf of the MAPS3 campaign.

I'm not surprised that this thread veered off-topic to the beaten-to-death Police and Fire issue, but I am surprised that so few of you seem to have no problem with what the Chamber and the OBUPCO have done.

[betts]

Do tell.

[soonerguru]

And we're receiving some not-so-great publicity for the unethical practices by the Oklahoman on behalf of the MAPS3 campaign.

I'm not surprised that this thread veered off-topic to the beaten-to-death Police and Fire issue, but I am surprised that so few of you seem to have no problem with what the Chamber and the OBUPCO have done.

Oh, wow, like this issue makes the Oklahoman unethical? This is small potatoes, proving your side has nothing.

Yes, I've had problems with the Oklahoman's ethics for my entire conscious life, but this is nothing. Nothing.

I'm sure someone at the Poynter institute got their panties in a wad. And to the general public? This would have zero influence on their opinion of our city.

But positive pieces in the New York Times, USA Today, Conde Nast Traveler, etc. have a huge impact. Huge. The two aren't remotely comparable. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you know this.

[jbrown84]

The newsroom at the Oklahoman has always been an exception to the rule when it came to paid volunteer time for political campaigns. That is the case here as well. Where's the beef? I don't see it.

Jobs were not threatened. Advancement in the workplace was not promised. It was an option. Plain and simple. You guys are really grasping at straws.

[JustTheFactsPlease]

I understand perfectly well. That's why I mentioned the 2 percent cut. Learn to read and stop yelling. You may have cardiac arrest.



I wasn't aware of the plan, but if so, welcome to the club. Numerous state agencies are already doing these. In other states, people are getting laid off. Join the club. And I have had no commentary about Mr. Couch, so I don't know what you're talking about.



Oh, wow. A whole year. Well state government has had one since 1992. I feel so sorry for you. And wow, eliminating jobs by attrition. Again, you have it so rough considering the fact this happens everywhere else.



You're so melodramatic. I don't suppose you read the New York Times, Washington Post, etc., but the amount of press our city has generated in the last few years, mostly due to MAPS, is staggering.

Quite contrary to your angry, hysterical post, I'm sure OKC will get very, very good press for becoming one of the elite destinations for rowing in the United States, for having the only wind-power-generated transit system, for having a world-class destination park, etc. We know this will happen because we've received great publicity for less. And the angle will be that we had the vision to do this despite the recession.

Now run along now, JustTheFacts. I can see with your FOUR WHOLE POSTS on this board you are a troll who has been sent here to politick. The regular users of this site aren't so dumb as to fall for your flimsy arguments. We know you're just another NTM troll.

First of all, it is childish to call people you do not know nasty names like Trolls and to state they are doing it for a reason they are NOT.

I found this thread because my "college aged - living on her own" daughter - was upset recently when it took so long for the police to respond to her 911 call for a hit and run done to her with her infant son on the side that was smashed in by the other driver. I explained to her how short we are in safety personnel and to not be mad at the officer working the call. I will be HAPPY to get the incident number my daughter was given by the officer who eventually came out on the call since you doubt my veracity.

As we talked, I mentioned that I was upset that the city would ask for more money for dessert (MAPS3) basically when the city can't pay for dinner (basic city cervices).

I am still waiting for police to arrive on several 911 calls over the last 3 years that NO one came out for period!

She wanted to know more and so I began to look for articles on both sides of the fence for her to make her own choice.

That is when I stumbled on this site and registered so I could voice MY opinion just as I assume you voice yours and not someone else's opinion as you claim I am doing.

I never claimed that the City had it worse than anyone else so don't try and put words I did not express in your reply. Again, I am saying you don't pay for dessert before you can afford dinner.

You, appear to be the hysterical, angry, melodramatic one who adds statements not made by me.

I have actually made more than 4 posts as you claim but since I just found this site today and registered today - my posts do not post until a moderator has time to review them and approve.

You were a beginner on here one time also. Everyone who posts here starts out with zero posts. So are you saying ALL newbies are Trolls sent to "politick" (your spelling) and ALL newbies are NTM trolls?

Your snarly, sarcastic name calling does not make your points better. And actually we are supposed to be respectful of each others right to voice an opinion and to not be always agree with each other on this forum so perhaps you should read as you chided me to do.

I certainly hope you are nicer to people in person who have a different opinion than you.

So please get your facts straight before you sling mud on your neighbors.

Dear JustTheFactsPlease,

Thanks for registering at OKCTalk! We are glad you have chosen to be a part of our community and we hope you enjoy your stay.

To better understand the features and permissions available, you probably want to review the Member Group feature chart.

Home

If you read the New User registration page, then you know as a new member your first 5 posts require moderator approval. Normally this just takes a few minutes and at the most a couple of hours. Unfortunately this is required because of the large amount of SPAM posted on message boards. If you would like to bypass this requirement, you can make a one-time donation of $4.95 to get promoted up to a Participating Member and start posting away.

I try very hard to keep OKCTalk clean , informative, and fun for everyone. Your comments and suggestions are always welcome.

[soonerguru]

First of all, it is childish to call people you do not know nasty names like Trolls and to state they are doing it for a reason they are NOT.

I found this thread because my "college aged - living on her own" daughter - was upset recently when it took so long for the police to respond to her 911 call for a hit and run done to her with her infant son on the side that was smashed in by the other driver. I explained to her how short we are in safety personnel and to not be mad at the officer working the call. I will be HAPPY to get the incident number my daughter was given by the officer who eventually came out on the call since you doubt my veracity.

As we talked, I mentioned that I was upset that the city would ask for more money for dessert (MAPS3) basically when the city can't pay for dinner (basic city cervices).

I am still waiting for police to arrive on several 911 calls over the last 3 years that NO one came out for period!

She wanted to know more and so I began to look for articles on both sides of the fence for her to make her own choice.

That is when I stumbled on this site and registered so I could voice MY opinion just as I assume you voice yours and not someone else's opinion as you claim I am doing.

I never claimed that the City had it worse than anyone else so don't try and put words I did not express in your reply. Again, I am saying you don't pay for dessert before you can afford dinner.

You, appear to be the hysterical, angry, melodramatic one who adds statements not made by me.

I have actually made more than 4 posts as you claim but since I just found this site today and registered today - my posts do not post until a moderator has time to review them and approve.

You were a beginner on here one time also. Everyone who posts here starts out with zero posts. So are you saying ALL newbies are Trolls sent to "politick" (your spelling) and ALL newbies are NTM trolls?

Your snarly, sarcastic name calling does not make your points better. And actually we are supposed to be respectful of each others right to voice an opinion and to not be always agree with each other on this forum so perhaps you should read as you chided me to do.

I certainly hope you are nicer to people in person who have a different opinion than you.

So please get your facts straight before you sling mud on your neighbors.

Dear JustTheFactsPlease,

Thanks for registering at OKCTalk! We are glad you have chosen to be a part of our community and we hope you enjoy your stay.

To better understand the features and permissions available, you probably want to review the Member Group feature chart.

Home

If you read the New User registration page, then you know as a new member your first 5 posts require moderator approval. Normally this just takes a few minutes and at the most a couple of hours. Unfortunately this is required because of the large amount of SPAM posted on message boards. If you would like to bypass this requirement, you can make a one-time donation of $4.95 to get promoted up to a Participating Member and start posting away.

I try very hard to keep OKCTalk clean , informative, and fun for everyone. Your comments and suggestions are always welcome.

I stand by my comments. Thank you for your concern.

I'm going to note that you suggest you have no agenda here other than the alleged poor police response time your daughter experienced. That implies that you have no connection to public safety in OKC. If I'm wrong, please clarify.

[JustTheFactsPlease]

I stand by my comments. Thank you for your concern.

I'm going to note that you suggest you have no agenda here other than the alleged poor police response time your daughter experienced. That implies that you have no connection to public safety in OKC. If I'm wrong, please clarify.

That and my own personal issues with the lag times I have experienced over the years as well.

For the police to NEVER show up on a call where someone keeps driving through your yard over and over acting like they are going to smash your home; or waiting 2 hours for police to respond to a man in the apt parking lot waving a gun saying he is gonna shoot someone; or not responding to a fireworks in a dry field next to an apt complex that did catch fire 30 minutes later when no police came to stop the jerks using fireworks in a reckless manner. These are but a few of the issues I have dealt with in the last three years.

For this and all the calls not handled in a timely manner I am opposed to paying for Frills until we can pay for needs. I have no ties with Police or Fire or their unions.

But I am informed and I am active in my community and I care deeply that OKC does the right thing.

I am not mad at anyone who has a different opinion, I do not however appreciate being called names I am not.

[soonerguru]

That and my own personal issues with the lag times I have experienced over the years as well.

For the police to NEVER show up on a call where someone keeps driving through your yard over and over acting like they are going to smash your home; or waiting 2 hours for police to respond to a man in the apt parking lot waving a gun saying he is gonna shoot someone; or not responding to a fireworks in a dry field next to an apt complex that did catch fire 30 minutes later when no police came to stop the jerks using fireworks in a reckless manner. These are but a few of the issues I have dealt with in the last three years.

For this and all the calls not handled in a timely manner I am opposed to paying for Frills until we can pay for needs. I have no ties with Police or Fire or their unions.

But I am informed and I am active in my community and I care deeply that OKC does the right thing.

I am not mad at anyone who has a different opinion, I do not however appreciate being called names I am not.

You would find that I'm a nice person. But I admit I'm jaded to all of these brand-new posters arriving two days before a major vote all using the same, tired arguments. Yes, these people are trolls, and with your sudden arrival, it seemed like you were just working the Sunday afternoon shift.

And I'm certain you're a really swell guy yourself, but you may want to check the content of your preceding post, and the snarky tone you used. The one in which you suggested I called Jim Couch a liar and hadn't heard of the term budget cut, when I had addressed it in my post.

[PennyQuilts]

So Mike, where were you when the Washington Post let all of their workers off for the inauguration?

FYI, they pretty much shut DC down during the inauguration due to traffic and no parking. It doesn't have anything to do with their political party. Public transportation is strained to the max with the influx of tourists and no parking makes public transportation essential. The feds also shut down because the employees probably wouldn't even be able to get to work or home without adding many hours to their commute. Plus, with that many people to manage, they don't need more crowds for security/safety purposes.

[PennyQuilts]

This is a long thread and I read it but am sure I missed a lot. I was wondering if someone could break it down for me, simply, so that I can understand how the P & F hope to make their lot better if MAPS is voted down.

What is sounds like, to me, is that F & P are worried that the money that could go towards increasing staffing will get sucked into a black hole so that they won't get any funding if MAPS is passed. Is that right?

If MAPS is defeated, how does that help the F & P get additional funding, or is that the argument? What would need to happen at that point? How long would it take and how likely would it be that the people of OKC would vote extra funding for the F & P if MAPS is defeated?

I am not trying to be belligerent and have sort of been staying out of the discussion because both sides are so angry. My inclination is to agree with Kevin that the F & P definitely need a permanent funding source. I apologize if these seem like stupid questions but there is just so much anger that I was hoping someone would just lay out the issue, simple and sweet. Thanks.

[JustTheFactsPlease]

You would find that I'm a nice person. But I admit I'm jaded to all of these brand-new posters arriving two days before a major vote all using the same, tired arguments. Yes, these people are trolls, and with your sudden arrival, it seemed like you were just working the Sunday afternoon shift.

And I'm certain you're a really swell guy yourself, but you may want to check the content of your preceding post, and the snarky tone you used. The one in which you suggested I called Jim Couch a liar and hadn't heard of the term budget cut, when I had addressed it in my post.

I can concede some when warranted it was the "No pay cut. No layoffs. Not even furloughs." comment you made which, Mr. Couch, himself said IS going to happen that made me feel like you were saying he is a liar. I apologize. I am a very nice person and this whole thing is upsetting. I do not like to see people hurt and people are already hurting and this just seems to be so wrong to do at this moment when Mr. Couch has said the city is cutting Police and Fire another 3 million plus but wants the taxpayers to pay multi millions for a new park, etc. at this time. I think we should take care of what we have and try the tax in a year or so when things are better if they are better right then.

It just is wrong. He has been meeting with City employees for a couple of weeks telling them there will be job cuts/layoffs, there is already pay cuts starting January 1, 2010, and he said furloughs would happen as well.

This was on Craigslist:

--maps hell no-

If we are so broke from sales tax losses - why are we adding a bigger sales tax to go deeper in the hole?

[soonerguru]

I can concede some when warranted it was the "No pay cut. No layoffs. Not even furloughs." comment you made which, Mr. Couch, himself said IS going to happen that made me feel like you were saying he is a liar. I apologize. I am a very nice person and this whole thing is upsetting. I do not like to see people hurt and people are already hurting and this just seems to be so wrong to do at this moment when Mr. Couch has said the city is cutting Police and Fire another 3 million plus but wants the taxpayers to pay multi millions for a new park, etc. at this time. I think we should take care of what we have and try the tax in a year or so when things are better if they are better right then.

It just is wrong. He has been meeting with City employees for a couple of weeks telling them there will be job cuts/layoffs, there is already pay cuts starting January 1, 2010, and he said furloughs would happen as well.

This was on Craigslist:

--maps hell no-

If we are so broke from sales tax losses - why are we adding a bigger sales tax to go deeper in the hole?

I'm trying not to be snarky, but I don't recommend Craigslist as a place to form opinions on public policy.

I'll take you at your word that you really care about your city. I want to offer a point for you to think about.

The reason our city is leading the nation right now, and why we have the lowest unemployment, is largely due to us investing in ourselves, even when we were hurting.

The downturn in city revenues is temporary. All economists agree on that, and I'm sure, if you're being honest, you would agree on that as well.

The point to consider about MAPS is that we are already paying this tax now. It is not an additional tax hardship being suggested.

But most importantly, we need to be planning for the next ten years. We cannot afford to put off investing in our future just because we are experiencing a temporary downturn.

It is true that our public employees pay is tied to city revenues. Economists are saying we need to pass MAPS 3 so we can see continued growth in our city revenues. This will ultimately help all city employees.

Conversely, if our city were to decline, or lose momentum, a more protracted downturn would put more pressure on city workers' wages and staffing.

You are passionate in your argument, and it seems to "make sense," but it is shortsighted.

Our passing MAPS does not diminish our ability to find funding sources for public safety. It's a separate issue related to infrastructure and growth.

We cannot afford to stop the momentum we've worked hard for.

That is as nice as I can be. I hope you reconsider your position.

But please remember that people here were very civil prior to the sudden arrival of anti-MAPS politickers and we look forward to them leaving for good after Tuesday.

[Doug Loudenback]

The newsroom at the Oklahoman has always been an exception to the rule when it came to paid volunteer time for political campaigns. That is the case here as well. Where's the beef? I don't see it.

Jobs were not threatened. Advancement in the workplace was not promised. It was an option. Plain and simple. You guys are really grasping at straws.

Actually, it's not just "those guys." I've already said my say about the Oklahoman ... see Doug Dawgz Blog: Quo Vadis, Oklahoman? ... some bad stuff has happened internally and the part that the public CAN see isn't very pretty, in my opinion. Reporting hasn't been complete, stories haven't been assigned.

[jbrown84]

Doug, I know your issues with the Oklahoman regarding coverage of MAPS. Do you feel that giving non-journalist employees pay for volunteering on this campaign as part of a routine and ongoing practice is unethical? I was a journalism major and I don't see the problem.

[mugofbeer]

If the DOK had said it was OK to go volunteer for an organization campaigning about MAPS, no matter which side of the issue it is, then their stance would have been OK. However, when the DOK supports MAPS then suggests its employees campaign FOR MAPS, thats not right. Its like endorsing a political candidate then telling your employees to go campaign for that same candidate. They goofed, they seem to have retracted it. I don't see the harm done.

[kevinpate]

FWIW, if a company provides for employees to do community related volunteer activities as a paid perk, that's fine by me.

Also FWIW, how that paid perk is used ought to be left to the employee?
SDo yeah, in my opinion, the perk should be available to staffer bill no matter which way staffer bill intends to vote.

Likewise, if staffer bill preferred to request to go pull weeds at a scout camp, whether BSA, GSUSA, Campfire, or Rainbows for Life etc., and not go do something on either side of MAPs, that should be permissible as well.

I guess I missed the part where DOK told staff you can ONLY use the perk for YES work? Was that actually the directive, or was that merely a presumption by some?

[mugofbeer]

The original post on this thread stated there was a memo sent encouraging employees to use their paid volunteer time to campaign FOR MAPS. Later information said the memo was retracted. Unless there was more info, the DOK goofed, retracted themselves and life goes on.

[Doug Loudenback]

Doug, I know your issues with the Oklahoman regarding coverage of MAPS. Do you feel that giving non-journalist employees pay for volunteering on this campaign as part of a routine and ongoing practice is unethical? I was a journalism major and I don't see the problem.

Only if the same courtesy was extended to the opposing side, but if not, yes, that's what I think.