OKC Police & Fire needs

[EBAH]

Of course it had a noticeable effect in our community. Crime is up all over the city, except Downtown. The OKC crime average is ABOVE the national average across all crime categories(Oklahoma City Crime Statistics (OK) - CityRating.com)




For many of us who aren't fortunate enough to live downtown, or midtown, these are the dark days.

OK, well first off, this in no way takes in to account the crime stats from 1990, 1980, 1970, etc... And, although it is above the national average over all, amongst cities it's size, it's not bad at all, in fact, quite marginal.

Second, just ask a citizen of Detroit or St. Louis if they think that more police officers on the ground has a had a direct corelation to the overall crime rate of a given metro area. (Both cities have very large officer per capita ratios, and VERY high crime) Crime is more often a a side effect of economic conditions and the rates are higher in most US cities right now due to an increase in "desperate" un or under employed people. All the more reason to pass a spending measure that would create work for lower skilled or unskilled labor.

Third, I don't live downtown, or mid town, I live in the westerm part of the inner city. We have crime over there, more so than in many other parts of the metro. Crime is, sadly, a part of life. If you want to live in a place with zero crime (which of course is impossible) move out of a large city. The rest of us will stay behind, and do what we can to improve things, and make the best of what we have.

There's zero guarantee that any of the proposed project will even be built. The wording of the proposal and the ballot leave a door open for the City to spend the money on anything they want, as long as they label it as a "Capital Improvement".

Having said that, if they do build what's proposed, I thing the White water ride and the aquatic centers are a complete waste of money. Primarily because the city has been closing Aquatic centers around the city for the last few years due to lack of funding. Why would they propose to build brand new ones when they can't even fund the ones that are already built and were in-use? Furthermore, why was there a lack of funding for public Aquatic centers if the 2 previous MAPS proposals were so successful in generating revenue?

The first part of this is just silly, we do have an accountability mechanism to see that these things are followed through on. It's called the press, you are exhibiting it's effectiveness by airing your complaints, that have undoubtedly reached your ears/eyes through the press. The white water "ride" is actually a proposed Olympic training center and a part of larger river development that will bring a lot of visitors to the state for MANY years to come. As far as the aquatic centers, well, I'm not a big supporter of that issue, but I can see their value in the grand scheme of things. And as I stated previously, these proposals are meant to have a little bit of something for many different demos in the city. The elderly could be well served with these centers and your lack of funding cited is a pretty good reason to put some of the money from this package towards them to make them more effective.

I also personally feel that the Streetcar system is a waste of money as it is proposed. I feel that way because I already ride the bus and see that nobody is using the current Transit System, especially Downtown. If they were being honest about getting Mass Transit going in OKC, why wouldn't they put the new transit system where it's going to actually be used?

Yes, I know, I've seen the posts from literally a handful of people who can't wait to ride the trolley from thier nice DT condo to Starbucks and to the Park. How wonderful for them.. Maybe those of us who will ride the transit System from our homes to work would actually get more use out of such a product.

This package will include improvements to city bus lines in the form of street light transponders and a circulator street car. Also, if public matching funds from the fed can be secured, the beginnings of commuter lines. I agree that no one rides the current system, but it is purely because it is worthless. But improving TIT for the buses and giving the downtown area a public circulator that can be used by the numerous hotel guests and convention attendees downtown is a very good start. Also, the street car would connect the three largest areas of employment in the city together (the capital complex, CBD, and Hospital) relieving the traffic load in these areas and allowing the employees in these areas to readily access the rapidly developing downtown restaurants and retail at lunch. I would actually think that these downtown condo dwellers going to starbucks (which I mean, come on, that is just flat out class bating, and pretty shameful class bating at that) would be the vast minority of the ridership in comparison to the thousands of middle class employees in the medical center, government district, and CBD on lunch breaks. It would also enable future "park and ride" scenarios for these employment districts. I understand what you mean, this is not a transit plan that fixes all of our problems at once. But, where else would you start. There is no other part of the metro that employs anywhere NEAR the amount of people that are employed along the proposed trolley route. It will serve as an excellent starter system that can one day be linked with commuter lines and additional bus lines to make up our first workable public transit system in 50+ years.

[EBAH]

OKC is turning into a cesspool, It's been steadily getting worse over the past 20 years and all you people care about is how pretty Downtown looks.

Where the hell do you live?!?!?!?! It's funny that all of this decline that has supposedly occurred in the last 20 years also seems to be coinciding with the widespread prosperity that has been seen all over our metro area in that same period. There are vast improvements all over the city and suburbs over the last 20 years. Sure, there are places that were nicer in 89 than in 09. But, this is REALITY!!! That happens EVERYWHERE!!! The very nature of any city is that certain areas fall in and out of favor over the years, and certain parts get better or worse. To say that this city is "turning in to a cesspool" is going to sound absolutely stupid to the vast majority of posters on this board, and I would bet to the vast majority of common "men on the street". I lived here in 89, and that statement just flat out blows my mind...

Besides that, what on earth does this have to do with ANYTHING?!?! OK, I'm convincede, I will vote no! I am voting no, because this city is crap. This guy on the forum told me this city is a cesspool, and now that I think of it, why would I want to spend money building nice new public projects in such a crappy city. And I mean, it's cool, we won't get all these supposedly nice projects, that I mean come on, only the filthy rich jerks are going to use, but don't worry, we will get more cops, which everyone LOVES SO MUCH. Our new slogan could even be, "Come to Oklahoma City, now with higher police presence". Nothing attracts outside investment and keeps our young college graduates in town like lots more cops!!

Please take your depressing crotchety crap somewhere else. Isn't there some kind of "Mark Shannon fake outrage by old crotchety people from quasi rual sections of Oklahoma City with large chips on shoulders" board you can post to? Some kind of board where you can post about "kids these days" or "why don't they have a law for...." or something like that? Before you guys showed up we actually debated the pros and cons of these issues. Some of us didn't support things some did, but we actually talked about making things work, rather than just yell at people. Every thread on this board gets hijacked by this maps crap.

[purplemonkeythief]

OK, well first off, this in no way takes in to account the crime stats from 1990, 1980, 1970, etc... And, although it is above the national average over all, amongst cities it's size, it's not bad at all, in fact, quite marginal.

Second, just ask a citizen of Detroit or St. Louis if they think that more police officers on the ground has a had a direct corelation to the overall crime rate of a given metro area. (Both cities have very large officer per capita ratios, and VERY high crime) Crime is more often a a side effect of economic conditions and the rates are higher in most US cities right now due to an increase in "desperate" un or under employed people. All the more reason to pass a spending measure that would create work for lower skilled or unskilled labor.

I moved back here from St. Louis in September, see my previous posts.

I felt hundreds of times safer in St. Louis than I do here. There was crime, but it wasn't on the scale that I see here personally night after night. If there was a problem that was getting out of control, we were able to either take care of it as a community or get an authority figure to help almost immediately.

Take a look at the thread in OKC Underground about a club causing problems.. People are too scared to even do anything about it in this town. While that amazes me on one level, I completely understand why they have this fear. It's gotten so bad in this city that calling attention to yourself just invites more potential physical violence.

But I'm sure a new Park downtown will fix all that.

Third, I don't live downtown, or mid town, I live in the westerm part of the inner city. We have crime over there, more so than in many other parts of the metro. Crime is, sadly, a part of life. If you want to live in a place with zero crime (which of course is impossible) move out of a large city. The rest of us will stay behind, and do what we can to improve things, and make the best of what we have.

Sadly, that's exactly what I will be doing. When my grandmother recovers, we're moving in January. I'd like to move her back to St. Louis with me, but she grew up in OKC and is unwilling to leave the state. Depending on how things work out over the next month will decide if we move to another part of the City or to someplace safe like Mustang.

The first part of this is just silly, we do have an accountability mechanism to see that these things are followed through on. It's called the press, you are exhibiting it's effectiveness by airing your complaints, that have undoubtedly reached your ears/eyes through the press. The white water "ride" is actually a proposed Olympic training center and a part of larger river development that will bring a lot of visitors to the state for MANY years to come.

I'm actually surprised that you would say that the press would have any sort of accountability say in any way towards MAPS3. Even the most ardent proponents of MAPS(on this forum) have recognized that the OKC press has been fairly useless when it comes to reporting on MAPS3. "public whitewater kayaking facility"(From Maps3 proposal) doesn't sound like an Olympic Training center. Yes, I know what's been posted here by Yes people, but that's what is says on the proposal.

As far as the aquatic centers, well, I'm not a big supporter of that issue, but I can see their value in the grand scheme of things. And as I stated previously, these proposals are meant to have a little bit of something for many different demos in the city. The elderly could be well served with these centers and your lack of funding cited is a pretty good reason to put some of the money from this package towards them to make them more effective.

Look at what you're saying here. Please.

You can see the value in new Aquatic centers.

The city shut down around 12 Aquatic centers in the last few years. 3 of which were closed this year for lack of funding.

If they're so important to the grand scheme of things, why close them? Why build brand new ones when the existing ones can just be reopened and refurbished?

It is a waste of money.

This package will include improvements to city bus lines in the form of street light transponders and a circulator street car. Also, if public matching funds from the fed can be secured, the beginnings of commuter lines. I agree that no one rides the current system, but it is purely because it is worthless. But improving TIT for the buses and giving the downtown area a public circulator that can be used by the numerous hotel guests and convention attendees downtown is a very good start. Also, the street car would connect the three largest areas of employment in the city together (the capital complex, CBD, and Hospital) relieving the traffic load in these areas and allowing the employees in these areas to readily access the rapidly developing downtown restaurants and retail at lunch. I would actually think that these downtown condo dwellers going to starbucks (which I mean, come on, that is just flat out class bating, and pretty shameful class bating at that) would be the vast minority of the ridership in comparison to the thousands of middle class employees in the medical center, government district, and CBD on lunch breaks. It would also enable future "park and ride" scenarios for these employment districts. I understand what you mean, this is not a transit plan that fixes all of our problems at once. But, where else would you start. There is no other part of the metro that employs anywhere NEAR the amount of people that are employed along the proposed trolley route. It will serve as an excellent starter system that can one day be linked with commuter lines and additional bus lines to make up our first workable public transit system in 50+ years.

I would start by locating the initial transit system near or on the more heavily used bus routes. In the Council meeting Minutes from sometime in the last few months, they were talking about which routes were seeing an increase and being used at higher capacity, the Downtown route wasn't one of them.

There is absolutely nothing stopping business from opening up on the existing DT transit routes, nothing except for the fact that nobody uses them. The Streetcar is going to generate new business no matter where it is built. It just makes sense to put it where the passengers have already proven they will use it. Putting it DT just doesn't make any sense.

[purplemonkeythief]

Where the hell do you live?!?!?!?! It's funny that all of this decline that has supposedly occurred in the last 20 years also seems to be coinciding with the widespread prosperity that has been seen all over our metro area in that same period. There are vast improvements all over the city and suburbs over the last 20 years. Sure, there are places that were nicer in 89 than in 09. But, this is REALITY!!! That happens EVERYWHERE!!! The very nature of any city is that certain areas fall in and out of favor over the years, and certain parts get better or worse. To say that this city is "turning in to a cesspool" is going to sound absolutely stupid to the vast majority of posters on this board, and I would bet to the vast majority of common "men on the street". I lived here in 89, and that statement just flat out blows my mind...

Besides that, what on earth does this have to do with ANYTHING?!?! OK, I'm convincede, I will vote no! I am voting no, because this city is crap. This guy on the forum told me this city is a cesspool, and now that I think of it, why would I want to spend money building nice new public projects in such a crappy city. And I mean, it's cool, we won't get all these supposedly nice projects, that I mean come on, only the filthy rich jerks are going to use, but don't worry, we will get more cops, which everyone LOVES SO MUCH. Our new slogan could even be, "Come to Oklahoma City, now with higher police presence". Nothing attracts outside investment and keeps our young college graduates in town like lots more cops!!

Please take your depressing crotchety crap somewhere else. Isn't there some kind of "Mark Shannon fake outrage by old crotchety people from quasi rual sections of Oklahoma City with large chips on shoulders" board you can post to? Some kind of board where you can post about "kids these days" or "why don't they have a law for...." or something like that? Before you guys showed up we actually debated the pros and cons of these issues. Some of us didn't support things some did, but we actually talked about making things work, rather than just yell at people. Every thread on this board gets hijacked by this maps crap.

I'm really surprised at your outrage and disbelief considering the forum's owner posted pretty much the same assertion right here: http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-are...er-2009-a.html and nobody threw a hissy fit at him.

Maybe it takes the returning outsider to see the deplorable changes to this city, but I'm not alone in what I'm seeing.

I also take issue with your accusation that I think we should just vote no and give up, or vote no and bow to the Unions.. Not once in any of my posts have I said I wanted the Unions to get their way, I've barely even mentioned them at all. I also haven't said we should just Vote No and forget about things..

I've made it fairly clear that I think the wording of the ballot and proposal should be changed to ensure the City not use the money for anything not listed. I've also voiced issue with some of the projects in that they are wasting money that could be better spent outside of Downtown or spent rebuilding previously failed projects instead of starting the same exact projects over from scratch.

[EBAH]

I understand what you're saying in you replies, but I don't think any crime stats ever published would say that St Louis is a "safer city" than OKC. I guess location is everything, and depending on your area of town, maybe it is more dangerous than your area in STL. All I am saying is that it isn't a compelling argument against this package. Am I happy with the amount of crime in OKC? No. But do I think defeating the maps plan would help fix that at all? No. If this package is defeated, we are exactly where we are now. If it succeeds, than we will build some things downtown that could really bring some positive things for our community in the long run. For people like me, that have moved in to supposedly crime ridden parts of town in the last few years, hoping to fix up the place, these improvements give us hope for the long term future.

[EBAH]

Also, on a personal note, I apologize for my sometimes incendiary rhetoric. I don't mean to be a jerk....kudos on a thoughtful reply..

[Platemaker]

Baby Jesus purplemonkeythief... are you suggesting the MAPS 3 Aquatic Centers are the same thing as some city pools?

[Platemaker]

OKC is turning into a cesspool, It's been steadily getting worse over the past 20 years and all you people care about is how pretty Downtown looks.

I'm gonna bet you aren't older than 25... and therefore can't remember OKC of 20 years ago.

[Architect2010]

To the poster who just moved from St. Louis.

I moved from there 3 years ago from a 5 year hiatus in that city. When I arrived in Oklahoma City and moved back in, I felt ten times safer then in St. Louis and I live in the inner southside.

It's all different depending on the person's perspective I guess. Go figure.

[betts]

To the poster who just moved from St. Louis.

I moved from there 3 years ago from a 5 year hiatus in that city. When I arrived in Oklahoma City and moved back in, I felt ten times safer then in St. Louis and I live in the inner southside.

It's all different depending on the person's perspective I guess. Go figure.

If you look at the statistics from the link the poster from St. Louis, posted above, you'll notice St. Louis has far worse crime statistics than OKC. In fact, I'm pretty sure that I just saw St. Louis listed on Forbes as one of the most dangerous cities in the US. I'll see if I can find the link. Crime is random. If you look at the statistics, the majority of us are never or rarely victims of crime. If you are, however, it's 100%, but you can be a victim in the safest of small towns or the best of neighborhoods.

[Mikemarsh51]

I wonder when and if Mayor Mick will explain how all of a sudden Maps3 will put more police and firefighters on the street when on 12/15/09 the council will vote to terminate 40 police officers and 29 firefighters?

[betts]

I wonder when and if Mayor Mick will explain how all of a sudden Maps3 will put more police and firefighters on the street when on 12/15/09 the council will vote to terminate 40 police officers and 29 firefighters?

I wonder how you think defeating MAPS is going to put more firemen and firefighters on the street. Although I agree it wasn't what you all were asking for, the city did offer you additional positions, to be funded by the use tax, and you turned them down. No MAPS, no use tax. No new jobs, no increase in sales tax. The problem is, the recession has hurt sales tax collection, which includes your 3/4 cent. At least MAPS offers the prospect of stimulating the economy, which might lead to an increase in sales tax. Without it, you've got a big fat zero. And, if it doesn't pass, all of a sudden you're going to have a lot of people who aren't very happy with the police and fire unions: city politicians and voters. I've been hearing a lot of grumbling about your stance against MAPS from the pro-MAPS voters. They might not forget that when the time comes to vote for things you all want. What goes around, comes around. Might have been better to take those additional positions, while leaving open the option of negotiating for more.

[okclee]

I am for Maps 3 and for more police and fire funding.

I will vote yes for Maps 3 and when the police and fire have a tax vote I will vote yes then too.

Can't we all get along?

[iron76hd]

I'm gonna bet you aren't older than 25... and therefore can't remember OKC of 20 years ago.

I wonder if you can. 20 years ago we had more Police Officers taking 911 calls for service than we do today! Maps1 ...Maps2 ...and the 5 Billion dollars we made didn't help... .Where did that money go?

I will vote yes for Maps 3 and when the police and fire have a tax vote I will vote yes then too.

Fair enough...I will be VOTING NO for the fancy park and white water rapids that will be more money the city will have to come up with to keep these worthless projects in the plus. will you vote for the Jail Tax too?

And who know how many federal taxes were fixing to get stuck with...

[iron76hd]

I wonder when and if Mayor Mick will explain how all of a sudden Maps3 will put more police and firefighters on the street when on 12/15/09 the council will vote to terminate 40 police officers and 29 firefighters?

I have no idea. I have never seen so much flat out twisting and lying from local politicians. I guess he can put whatever spin on it he wants. They twist the "truth". Like MAPS3 will add Police and Fire to our streets. WHat? In an interview, a few short weeks ago he said they were totally unrelated.

You can say MAPS3 will make "pigs fly" and I guess some people will say OK. This whole maps thing has even surpassed Police and Fire. They whole deal is an absolute Joke! I'll tell you that "Money" is the root of all evil. It will easily sway ones opinion, decision, or vote. WOW! America is truly hurting. When people sell out so easily. That's bad. Not all of us have a price, thank god.

[betts]

Iron, today I spent quite a bit of time talking to people straightening out the lies told to them by policemen and firemen. I thought we were supposed to be able to trust that our policemen would tell the truth. It's not OK to say, "Well, the other side is lying, so we will too", if you want any credibility. I've seen some of the mailings also, and there are some lies and half truths in them. So, don't be throwing stones, because you are living in a glass house.

[Doug Loudenback]

One of the things that gets me in this is how some (not all) of the police and fire members in this forum (who, by and large, weren't active here at all until MAPS 3 reared its head and who may disappear just as quickly in the aftermath of the vote, however it goes) ... one of the things that gets me is how it was that the distinct possibility was held out by the unions that they could well do a turnabout and support MAPS 3 ... IF ... contract negotiations with the city were satisfactory, and those contract negotiations in no way included anything at all about the projects in MAPS 3, the total cost, or the tax duration.

1. Firefighters: In a November 10 Journal Record article, a quote from Phil Sipe appeared: "'To be completely open here, that's what we've been talking about. Once the (staffing) problem goes away, then I'd think the (MAPS 3) opposition would go away,' said Sipe, who heads the International Association of Firefighters Local 157. ¶ A resolution could be reached as early as Tuesday, he said." Later in the same article: "Sipe said that although he has told city officials that the MAPS 3 opposition could evaporate, it's not entirely up to him. ¶ 'That is one of the things that's really up to the membership. They're the ultimate authority here. If they're willing to reverse the previous stand they've taken and decide to rescind that original decision, then we're certainly willing to do a 180-degree turnaround and support it,' Sipe said." Link: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49...09_11_10-1.jpg
   
   ________
2. Police: Also on November 10 in a letter from James Moore, attorney representing the FOP, to Jim Couch: "The FOP is willing to get on board with MAPS 3 if a couple of things can be done." The letter specified those things. Link: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49...tter_11_10.jpg

Translation:

• UNIONS TO THE CITY: we are quite prepared to get behind MAPS and urge voters to VOTE YES.
  
  otherwise ...
• UNIONS TO THE PUBLIC: MAPS is wholly crappy. The projects are bad, the cost is too much, and the tax lasts too long. VOTE NO.

This just in from The Food & Drug Administration:

WARNING: Trying to figure out where SINCERITY lies in the above yes and/or no positions can cause headaches, sometimes vomiting, uncontrollable drooling, and in extreme cases suicidal thoughts. If any of these symptoms become apparent, a person should IMMEDIATELY (a) stop trying to reconcile the contradictory statements, (b) drive carefully to your nearest (not necessarily the least expensive ... time could be of the essence) local liquor store and purchase a supply of your elixir of choice, (c) drive on side streets to your home, avoiding heavy traffic routes so not to endanger others any more than is absolutely required, and, at your home and under the observation of at least one trusted family member or friend, (d) safely self-medicate for a responsible period of time. Women who are pregnant and others who have high blood pressure or pulmonary problems, or who have been exposed to additional excessive barrages of bullcrap, or those who have other conditions related to alcoholic beverages, or voters between the ages of 18 and 21, should NOT follow the above recommendation. For persons in those groups, no known solution exists. Sorry.

That is all and signing off. Fortunately for this reporter, I have on hand a proper elixir and do not have to leave my home at 12:46 a.m. only to discover that my nearest liquor store is closed for the night.

[iron76hd]

Iron, today I spent quite a bit of time talking to people straightening out the lies told to them by policemen and firemen. I thought we were supposed to be able to trust that our policemen would tell the truth. It's not OK to say, "Well, the other side is lying, so we will too", if you want any credibility. I've seen some of the mailings also, and there are some lies and half truths in them. So, don't be throwing stones, because you are living in a glass house.

Please share what half truths. I find that funny. I've read your posts and you don't much about either side of the issue. I can't imagine what if anything you had to share or offer as information. You do little research about the other side of the issue, and have to have it spoon fed to you.

I've spoken to hundreds of people. I refuse to tell them any "half truths". I can't explain any of them because you haven't given me an example. I would imagine that's your Opinion.

Please attack the mailings. I've seen them so I'd need specifics.

[iron76hd]

Doug,

When you sober up, why don't you go talk to Jim Moore directly and he'll explain what was really going on when the MEMO was sent. I must be missing the part where this is a smoking gun of sorts. That's all you can come up with? Geez

[betts]

I've heard:

Park to be a front yard for Devon

The rich own all the land where the park and convention center will be built

Interesting one: The ballot says that the city can start collecting taxes January first, so we'll have a double tax until MAPS for the Ford Center expires.

The convention center will be built on the land owned by the Humphreys

There's nothing in MAPS for anyone who lives outside of downtown.

Policemen and firemen should have been given part of the MAPS tax collection (believe that was offered and turned down).

There are probably more, just cannot remember them all.

It's the same stuff I've seen people saying here, so it really doesn't surprise me. But, none of those are true.

[Doug Loudenback]

Doug,

When you sober up, why don't you go talk to Jim Moore directly and he'll explain what was really going on when the MEMO was sent. I must be missing the part where this is a smoking gun of sorts. That's all you can come up with? Geez

Like you sometimes say, Iron, what part of "The FOP is willing to get on board with MAPS 3 if ..." don't you understand?

[iron76hd]

Park to be a front yard for Devon

I've never said that, but will you be able to walk to the park from DEVON?

The rich own all the land where the park and convention center will be built

The convention center will be built on the land owned by the Humphreys

I've never said that, because I don't know exactly where they are going to build the CC. Where are they and who does own the land they are building on?

There's nothing in MAPS for anyone who lives outside of downtown.

Now this one... You mean the Aquatic Centers? What else is for EVERYONE? I'm missing something. Isn't the park downtown? while others are closing and dilapidated. Isn't CC downtown? Isn't the Rail only downtown? What else benefits ALL OKC residents? The rapids that will be a MONEY PIT? The Rail is a MONEY PIT! The Aquatics center is a MONEY PIT? What else am I missing?

Policemen and firemen should have been given part of the MAPS tax collection (believe that was offered and turned down).

Yes... After the numbers weren't looking so good and Clay, Chamber and Company went to the MAYOR...the fact that businessmen have that kind of influence is something else all together. then they offered IF MAPS passes and we don't oppose it...we get 20 Police officers and 9 Fireman....WOW! That won't even scratch the surface!!!!! I've explained what we were offered and explained what the city's study said we needed...Did you? Did you explain the study?

That's the best you can do? That's your smoking gun? How pathetic!

Saying MAPS3 will put more police and fire on the streets is a LIE. I must have missed the part of MAPS that says POLICE AND FIRE. Where is that in the list of projects. Watch the commercial over and over and IT's A LIE.

Brad Henry's was the best....

There couldn't be a better time. The city has a proven track record.

He obviously didn't do his homework on their "Track Record" with Bonds and money and the like.

I'd love to hear your pitch asking to support MAPS3. If I could only be on the porch at the same time or wherever you're trying to get people to buy it.

What a JOKE! He must not see the unemployment rate rising the city is cutting JOBS! Yea NOW is the TIME! Is he an idiot!

[Mikemarsh51]

Betts, Mick is lying. You say we were offered more people. Did you hear about the strings the city attached to it? Bad deal, my favorite part was when they said " if you support maps within the next 24 months we will address your funding issues", they know there's a problem. But Mick says your our #1 priority.

[rcjunkie]

Iron76HD , Can you explain why you fail to mention that the same study that says the police are 200 officers short, also says that if they would go back to a 8 hour day, 5 day a week schedule, that they would bo overstaffed by 200 plus officers. While your at it, would you also support the City in doing away with the police departments take home car program, there by saving thousands of tax dollars per year.

[betts]

Actually, I would have taken the 24 month deal, because I don't think you'll necessarily get what you want before that. But, I seriously think you all need to look at how you're responding to 911 calls. I'd work on getting smaller trucks, so that you can send fewer people per call. And, I'm all about you merging with EMSA. I'm going to talk to everyone I know who might be helpful in this process. Either of those things would go a long way towards solving your personnel issues, and I think that streamlining that process, in these difficult economic times, would be very helpful.