New OCU Law School (dead)

[Architect2010]

Changing the subject a tad bit, but is anyone aware if they will build structured parking by any chance? Honestly, I don't see the purpose of creating a suburban parking paradise if they intend to move into an urban building. Even if the surrounding property may be vacant or already demolished, I believe better use could come out of those lots then asphalt and white stripes.

[betts]

I think that's why they were so insistent that MAPS pass if they're going to move. They wanted streetcar access for students, presumably to decrease the amount of parking needed.

[PennyQuilts]

I cannot see that I would ever have used a streetcar when I was a student. I didn't have the time to sit around and wait on its schedule. And I say that even though in good weather, I rode my bike from Bethany to the OCU campus about three days a week when I was a student.

[lasomeday]

A parking garage would be the only way to go there. It will help preserve the other buildings that could be utilized for other purposes such as cafes or other stores.

[Midtowner]

I imagine that if the school goes in there, the surrounding surface lots might turn into low to mid-rise office buildings filled with lawyers wanting free [OCU law grads get lifetime library privileges] and quick access to a law school's law library which is quite a bit more extensive than anything you'll find at the courthouse. Also, I believe there is free Westlaw/Lexis access in the library, which if you pay for it (and I do) costs quite a bit of money.

[kevinpate]

I cannot see that I would ever have used a streetcar when I was a student. I didn't have the time to sit around and wait on its schedule. And I say that even though in good weather, I rode my bike from Bethany to the OCU campus about three days a week when I was a student.

During class days at OU, I made use of the CART system quite a bit, catching rides at other times, using own vehicle at times, walking some as well (I oughta walk more now than I do.) never sat around a great deal waiting, but did a whole bunch of 'man oh man I hope I can get to the stop it before it comes around.' Me and procrastination, we was study buddies, and sometimes we invited nap over to join the fun.

[okyeah]

I cannot see that I would ever have used a streetcar when I was a student. I didn't have the time to sit around and wait on its schedule. And I say that even though in good weather, I rode my bike from Bethany to the OCU campus about three days a week when I was a student.

bahaaha I don't think OCU understands the concept of a parking garage. check out their main campus

[bombermwc]

Well there's no reason to have a garage on campus. Besides the fact that surface lots are moved around so much there to make room for growth. Even after the expansion of the last 10 years, you still don't walk more than 2 or 3 minutes on the longest walk. So why would they need a garage on campus?

Downtown is a different story because they are so confined. If they are allowed to demo all the extra buildings on that lot, then they'll have plenty surface lot space. But I don't see them building a garage for law either. It's just not busy enough there....besides if OCU doesn't own the land, then they won't put that kind of money into the space. It's an extremely expensive project that wouldn't get them a good return in benefit.

[urbanity]

OCU may soon kiss frog on west side of Downtown | OKG Scene.com

[Comm'l Real Estate Guy]

Downtown is a different story because they are so confined. If they are allowed to demo all the extra buildings on that lot, then they'll have plenty surface lot space. But I don't see them building a garage for law either. It's just not busy enough there....besides if OCU doesn't own the land, then they won't put that kind of money into the space. It's an extremely expensive project that wouldn't get them a good return in benefit.

bomber...your point is exactly correct. Garages are VERY expensive.

[td25er]

Basing the merits of one's posts on the frequency with which one posts them is a two edged sword. Sometimes you can dilute the potency of your words, when you spray them about, Doug.

Men show their characters in nothing more clearly than in what they think laughable.
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
German dramatist, novelist, poet, & scientist (1749 - 1832)

If you look for the bad in people expecting to find it, you surely will.
Abraham Lincoln

Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin

Can you not think on your own?

[td25er]

NO those were sarcastic remarks. but some of them i do feel are true. some may seem good and act nice but a lot are bad news. also our cops do NOT patrol a 70 acres park. how are you going ot have them do that? use the mounted pd or bike team or what? they cant patrol the park. we already have a park in the same general area that they are wanting the new park. its called wheeler park. it seems nice and big with a skate park and other stuff. why is that not good enough? although you may see the homeless as nice people as you feed them meals but what about when they steal to get mouthwash just so they can get drunk, or use tha ambulance service as a taxi? i would NOT let me wife nor kids anywhere down there especially at night.

It'd not good enough b/c MAPS3 will get rid of the ghetto south of downtown. Some people don't like seeing rotting roofs and boarded up windows. Others are content.

[Midtowner]

I asked the same question when this rumor came up a while back and was told by a couple of the lawyers on the thread that having the law school in close proximity to the law firms in town is a great advantage. Not being a lawyer, I don't know much more than that, but maybe it helps.

Yep.

1) Cheap labor -- a ready supply of legal interns willing to work either for free or at least on the cheap.
2) A law library -- this is a huge expense for even a small firm to keep. Free and quick access to a school's law library would be a big deal for any sized firm.
3) Close proximity of the students to the jail and to the courthouse -- Dean Hellman has been working on an innocence project. At the very least, this will result in nationwide recognition for the law school. At the very most, it can help to augment the effectiveness of our beleaguered public defender's office while providing students with valuable experience.

And is it good for OCU? Well, several departments seem to think so since they're already trying to stake out Sarkeys as being the place they should expand into.

[PennyQuilts]

I dunno. Most law students I know would kill to work with the firms and being closer is not going to make there be a significantly larger pool. And as for the law library - do people even use them anymore? Even ten years ago I used electronic even though I was up at the law school for other reasons at least once a week. Maybe being close to the jail or courthouse helps but I interned at the DA's office for a summer and it didn't really impact me when I was taking classes.

[Midtowner]

I dunno. Most law students I know would kill to work with the firms and being closer is not going to make there be a significantly larger pool. And as for the law library - do people even use them anymore? Even ten years ago I used electronic even though I was up at the law school for other reasons at least once a week. Maybe being close to the jail or courthouse helps but I interned at the DA's office for a summer and it didn't really impact me when I was taking classes.

The library actually gets quite a bit of use by local practitioners. And as for proximity, assuming there's a rail line, I think it's much more likely that interns could spend more time with their employers than they could right now. Also, as for the innocence project, I think the proximity issue will be a bigger deal for the profs who would supervise such a program than the students.

[PennyQuilts]

The library actually gets quite a bit of use by local practitioners.

Yeah the OLD ones!!!!

[Midtowner]

Yeah the OLD ones!!!!

I used to see younger ones down there as well. Most, like me, have Westlaw subscriptions with whatever we need in them. But that's really expensive, and if I could save $400 or so/month by running across the street, well, I might just do that.

[Architect2010]

bomber...your point is exactly correct. Garages are VERY expensive.

I understand them not owning the land and why it's not practical to build one for themselves. But the expensive argument is exactly why Lower Bricktown is a sea of parking lots. It's a bull**** excuse for urbanity.

[Comm'l Real Estate Guy]

I understand them not owning the land and why it's not practical to build one for themselves. But the expensive argument is exactly why Lower Bricktown is a sea of parking lots. It's a bull**** excuse for urbanity.

Architect, while I absolutely share your point of view about urbanity, it's only a qualitative point of view.

Even if the owner built the garage, wouldn't OCU's rent have to increase to cover those costs?

[kevinpate]

Yeah the OLD ones!!!!

LOL, I recall a particular chap that if I ever needed to speak to him, I just went to the OK CO Law Library. I was never positive, but at times I swore he used it as much as a place to hide between client conference just beyond the regular smoking areas as a place to research.

Not sure he even had an office space of his own come to think of it.

[bombermwc]

With the garage, if OCU actually owned the land and buildings, it might be a different story. But OCU is simply leasing the building here. If a garage was built, it would have to be paid for some how. Either it would be a pay garage (which makes it less attractive to everyone involved), or OCU's lease would have to cover the cost of it in some way.

Another option would be to have the students get a free pass with their parking permit. Then only have the visitors pay...such as those using the law library. If you can park on the street for free, more power to you. But for some reason people always think garages should be free. They are INCREDIBLY expensive to build, and that cash has to come from somewhere.

[onthestrip]

Just to give some perspective, parking garages cost around $10,000 per spot.

[Urbanized]

TIF funding can be used to build the garage. That's exactly the type of thing TIFs exist to do, in fact. TIF money has already been used to build structured parking downtown.

[Comm'l Real Estate Guy]

Just to give some perspective, parking garages cost around $10,000 per spot.

Onthestrip, I'm not qualified in the parking garage area, but I think they cost even more than that. $10,000/spot is what they might be bought for, but I'm not sure they can built for that. Back to your point, if OCU built a 500 space garage and it cost $10,000/space....that's a $5,000,000 garage. There might be money from other sources available for that garage, but I bet people would cry foul over public money being spent this way.

[flintysooner]

Last garage I actually know anything about came in at $36K per spot cost not including land. But land values have to be plugged in differently than surface obviously.