Yes Maps 3

[progressiveboy]

Precisely what are you referring to here? Everything I'm voting for is public. Exactly what part of MAPS is private development?

And Bob, since I've asked everyone else, I'll ask you too. Tell me all the good things voting no will accomplish for Oklahoma City. Tell me how it will make it a better place for all of us.

Good observation and objective viewpoint! It just amazes me that many of the naysayers do not have all their facts straight. Do people not know the difference between private and public development? If I lived in OKC I would vote "YES", because your city deserves a chance to continue improving it's image and making it a more desirable place to live,work and play. I understand that people have the right to vote No however, most of the no voters have very weak arguments as to why we should not vote for it. The city leaders have shown accountability and the proof that MAPS does work and they have made good on their promise. MAPS 3 has something for everyone in OKC, and you naysayers that disagree, I have to wonder that you people must be the most boring and complacent individuals that hinders progress and vision.

[SouthsideSooner]

The park will be a haven for bums. Who's gonna keep them out?
Your entire reason for a yes VOTE is nothing more than a regurgitation of one of the MAPS commercials. No substance at all. Laughable.
I haven't heard of ANY substance in any commercial. Vibrant...Momentum ..positive this and that. Good luck. The YES side is gonna need it from what i'm hearing.

The area is now a dilapidated haven for bums and there is no reason to believe it will get any better anytime soon without MAPS 3 ...some of us are able to be objective and not just blindly follow the unions marching orders.

...and how about those union "Not This Maps" signs...now there's some substance for you...LOL

Once MAPS 3 passes, good luck dealing with the city leaders after pulling this poorly conceived stunt...

[Golfer]

Because it is against the law to "bundle" all of the projects spelled out under one box. You know as well as the rest of the general public that the brilliance in MAPS is that there is something for everyone. No one proposal would easily pass on its own as the Gazette poll reflects. We have a wide range of people that have very different perspectives on what type of public improvements are good improvements.

We voted our elected officials in. They have been responsible with their decisions. Voting for MAPS is voting in confidence that they can continue to do more responsibly.

Give me a break, The Gazette does not poll everyone. List each project seperately and see what happens. We elect our mayor, council people, representatives, governor etc. seperately. They listed them all together only to get all the wealthy behind it so it will have enough money to try to buy the election and feared losing the support by listing each project on seperate ballots. Listing each project on a seperate ballot would be fair to our citizens and would assure that the money would be spent on only what people truly wanted. Oh by the way, this no voter could be swayed if you can talk your people into adding another 100 million or so to build a 36 hole golf course at draper lake, it would be a perfect place to build a golf course. I know for a fact that Mayor Cornett and ex- Mayor Norick are avid golfers. Let's do it.

[SouthsideSooner]

Southside,

I know for a fact that the so called unions ("employee work group" may be a better term) are not the only groups in OKC against MAPS 3. There are a multitude of groups (non-union and/or employee work group members) who are against this thing for a variety of reasons. These big nasty unions are really powerful, but they should be the least of your "yes" camps worries. lol
There are some equally powerful groups that are also in the "NO" camp.
The one thing that each one of these groups have in common is their non-support for MAPS 3. Be rest assured that these citizens will not only be voting NO on December 8, but ABSOLUTELY NO.....

Really BOB? The only campaign I see against MAPS 3 is the one being paid for by the unions.

Apparently those other "equally powerful groups" don't feel strongly enough about it to make their position publicly known or they're figments of your imagination...

Care to spell out just who you're talking about?

I don't think ABSOLUTELY NO will be a voting option

[iron76hd]

Oh by the way, this no voter could be swayed if you can talk your people into adding another 100 million or so to build a 36 hole golf course at draper lake, it would be a perfect place to build a golf course. I know for a fact that Mayor Cornett and ex- Mayor Norick are avid golfers. Let's do it.

Now that's an idea...

[BOBTHEBUILDER]

Precisely what are you referring to here? Everything I'm voting for is public. Exactly what part of MAPS is private development?

And Bob, since I've asked everyone else, I'll ask you too. Tell me all the good things voting no will accomplish for Oklahoma City. Tell me how it will make it a better place for all of us.

To answer your question, I am not accustomed too nor comfortable with giving mine or anyone elses hard earned tax dollars in the form of a BLANK CHECK to the Mayor and/or rest of the players involved in MAPS 3. Like LarryOKC had posted earlier, there is no accountability here.

They had an opportunity to do the right thing and change the ballot to give it more teeth. They chose to ignore the concerns of the citizens and do what they damn well pleased. With that in mind, I dont trust these guys as far as I could throw them. Their word means absolutely nothing to me.

There are too many loopholes in this project, which have been beat to death on these message threads. Yet, all of the YES supporters choose to turn the other cheek and trust that these guys will do what they say they will do. LOL. What happens when they dont? Vote them out of office....
By then it wont matter, the damage is done. What projects will be cut or added and said to be a Capital Expenditure....They could be some of your favorites...

These guys are not bound by anything to complete the projects as stated.
You dont give anyone that much latitude in a business dealing or at anything for that matter, without the distinct possibility of them highly disappointing you or worse by putting the screws to you. In my opinion, this should raise some huge red flags in your eyes, yet in doesnt appear too, which concerns me even more, because you strike me as an educated woman.

These guys may be out of office in the near future, then someone else will have control over this money. Different agenda or priorities, make no mistake...
Why would we leave something this important up to chance?
This is a significant amount of money for a long time frame....

Sure we have an oversight committee, but as listed by a previous poster, the mayor is who selects these individuals. SAME GAME, DIFFERENT PLAYERS.

I have several more reasons, but these are at the top of the list....

NO CONSPIRACY THEORIES, JUST FACTS THAT CANNOT BE DISPUTED...

[iron76hd]

Apparently those other "equally powerful groups" don't feel strongly enough about it to make their position publicly known or they're figments of your imagination...

They are not figments of imagination! I can assure you that.

[SouthsideSooner]

They are not figments of imagination! I can assure you that.

Sure you can. Go ahead and prove it...

[mugofbeer]

You still havent explained how your linking of MAPS3 with your arguements hold water. If you are going to make assertions show some proof. At least I can look at proof-positive that MAPS1 and M4K have been resounding successes.

Back up your claims

This is NOT maps1.

It is an extension of the same program for new projects. How are the projects to be built in MAPS3 going to be any less successful than the MAPS1 projects? What is your data? History has proven MAPS is extremely successful.

This is usually done by PRIVATE investment. Not taxpayers footing the bill.

MAPS1 directly benefitted numerous private developers who then invested millions more in their private real estate holdings. There is nothing in MAPS3 that is going to directly benefit any private developer. MAPS3 will provide a foundation and catalyst for further development in a terribly blighted area south of downtown. Though the projects may differ, MAPS3 uses very similar tactics as MAPS1 - just in a different area and, arguably, is less directly beneficial to developers. IT IS AN INVESTMENT IN OUR FUTURE.

How is voting "no" going to benefit anyone?

The park will be a haven for bums. Who's gonna keep them out?

The city of Denver has a couple of large central city parks. One is City Park where the Zoo and a public golf course is. They are very safe for people, even after dark. Washington Park is a bit south of downtown but it is still a central city park but has become one of the most desireable places for people to live. OKC's central park could, in time, become just as desireable when coupled with proximity to work and the river lake system. Neither park is a haven for bums. Simple police patrolling can keep them away.

Your entire reason for a yes VOTE is nothing more than a regurgitation of one of the MAPS commercials. No substance at all. Laughable.
I haven't heard of ANY substance in any commercial. Vibrant...Momentum ..positive this and that. Good luck. The YES side is gonna need it from what i'm hearing.

Then investment in our future and redevelopment of blighted areas - among many more reasons is just without substance. Give me an example of what you might want to see that WOULD be with substance. What type of arguement would satisfy your union directed opinions?

[Chance23]

Precisely what are you referring to here? Everything I'm voting for is public. Exactly what part of MAPS is private development?

And Bob, since I've asked everyone else, I'll ask you too. Tell me all the good things voting no will accomplish for Oklahoma City. Tell me how it will make it a better place for all of us.

From what I gather on their arguments, the anti-MAPS group thinks "no" will send a message to the city about setting feasible priorities, recognizing the concerns of citizens being asked to pay for projects while the city is laying them off, and a desire for transparency in government, which can't be done if you give a blank check every time they ask.

No, it's not pretty as a park, and you can't drive your SUV to it, but that doesn't mean it's toothless like you like to classify anything that disagrees with you. "Everyone is suffering" isn't an argument for a tax increase, no matter how many times people say it.

[BOBTHEBUILDER]

Good observation and objective viewpoint! It just amazes me that many of the naysayers do not have all their facts straight. Do people not know the difference between private and public development? If I lived in OKC I would vote "YES", because your city deserves a chance to continue improving it's image and making it a more desirable place to live,work and play. I understand that people have the right to vote No however, most of the no voters have very weak arguments as to why we should not vote for it. The city leaders have shown accountability and the proof that MAPS does work and they have made good on their promise. MAPS 3 has something for everyone in OKC, and you naysayers that disagree, I have to wonder that you people must be the most boring and complacent individuals that hinders progress and vision.

Progressiveboy,

I am a private developer and I can assure you that I know the difference between the 2. lol. If you think my argument is weak, read my latest post, that should just about sum it up. Leave the development to the private developers, not the mayor and his guys who are trying to convince us to foot the bill for the wants and desires of the few. If those guys want to get in the development business, they can do it like the rest of us, with their own money, not the tax payers....The people/residents that stand to gain from those projects need to foot the bill for them not the taxpayers. I know that is not an option, lol. There are many residents of OKC, who could care less about the proposed projects, because they would very seldom or never use them. It doesnt make them old fashioned, unhealthy and whatever other reason you guys can come up to try substantiate your point.

[iron76hd]

No, it's not pretty as a park, and you can't drive your SUV to it, but that doesn't mean it's toothless like you like to classify anything that disagrees with you. "Everyone is suffering" isn't an argument for a tax increase, no matter how many times people say it.

There are many residents of OKC, who could care less about the proposed projects, because they would very seldom or never use them. It doesnt make them old fashioned, unhealthy and whatever other reason you guys can come up to try substantiate your point.

Preach it!

[SouthsideSooner]

From what I gather on their arguments, the anti-MAPS group thinks "no" will send a message to the city about setting feasible priorities, recognizing the concerns of citizens being asked to pay for projects while the city is laying them off, and a desire for transparency in government, which can't be done if you give a blank check every time they ask.

No, it's not pretty as a park, and you can't drive your SUV to it, but that doesn't mean it's toothless like you like to classify anything that disagrees with you.

That's funny...the only "anti-MAPS group" I see are the unions who are trying to punish the city for not meeting their demands...

[SouthsideSooner]

Progressiveboy,

I am a private developer and I can assure you that I know the difference between the 2. lol. If you think my argument is weak, read my latest post, that should just about sum it up. Leave the development to the private developers, not the mayor and his guys who are trying to convince us to foot the bill for the wants and desires of the few. If those guys want to get in the development business, they can do it like the rest of us, with their own money, not the tax payers....The people/residents that stand to gain from those projects need to foot the bill for them not the taxpayers. I know that is not an option, lol. There are many residents of OKC, who could care less about the proposed projects, because they would very seldom or never use them. It doesnt make them old fashioned, unhealthy and whatever other reason you guys can come up to try substantiate your point.

Private developer? YIKES...No wonder BOB is against a program for rebuilding the inter-city.....He's for URBAN SPRAWL!!!!

[Chance23]

That's funny...the only "anti-MAPS group" I see are the unions who are trying to punish the city for not meeting their demands...

Have you tried looking? I've talked to anti-MAPS people who weren't city employees, aren't fans of LEO, and who live in the city who are against it, just like I've talked to pro-MAPS people who don't live in Gaillardia, drive Bentley's and pay for $10 lattes. It's not that hard if you look. I've tried to get both sides to give me info to make an informed decision myself, and not once have I turned to either of the unions (as Iron could probably tell you, I'm not a fan of police officers in general).

[iron76hd]

That's funny...the only "anti-MAPS group" I see are the unions who are trying to punish the city for not meeting their demands...

There are numerous businesses that are voting NO and don't want THIS maps. They don't want to come out publically for obvious reasons. Don't think every business is FOR MAPS.

[BOBTHEBUILDER]

Really BOB? The only campaign I see against MAPS 3 is the one being paid for by the unions.

Apparently those other "equally powerful groups" don't feel strongly enough about it to make their position publicly known or they're figments of your imagination...

Care to spell out just who you're talking about?

I don't think ABSOLUTELY NO will be a voting option

I dont care to spell them out, lol.
Their position will be known on December 8th.
Thanks for the interest though.

[SouthsideSooner]

Have you tried looking? I've talked to anti-MAPS people who weren't city employees, aren't fans of LEO, and who live in the city who are against it, just like I've talked to pro-MAPS people who don't live in Gaillardia, drive Bentley's and pay for $10 lattes. It's not that hard if you look. I've tried to get both sides to give me info to make an informed decision myself, and not once have I turned to either of the unions (as Iron could probably tell you, I'm not a fan of police officers in general).

Oh yea, I've been paying close attention. You still haven't mentioned any "anti-MAPS group" besides the unions...

[SouthsideSooner]

There are numerous businesses that are voting NO and don't want THIS maps. They don't want to come out publically for obvious reasons. Don't think every business is FOR MAPS.

I dont care to spell them out, lol.
Their position will be known on December 8th.
Thanks for the interest though.

Oh..... so they're super double secret "anti-MAPS groups" other than the unions...now that's funny stuff!!!!

[iron76hd]

http://www.okcissues.com/okcissues.c...20Congress.mov

Listen to this. He's teamed up with the Chamber who fought against bothering the Illegal immigrants....LOL

Against big government...against more TAXS....True conservative....

I laughed the whole time....

He's a "Flip Flopper"...

[BOBTHEBUILDER]

Private developer? YIKES...No wonder BOB is against a program for rebuilding the inter-city.....He's for URBAN SPRAWL!!!!

Actually, I am for the development of the inner city as well as outer areas of the city. I just dont agree with the way that this MAPS 3 proposal is being portrayed. I dont agree with ballot and the motivation behind it.

[onthestrip]

Oh by the way, this no voter could be swayed if you can talk your people into adding another 100 million or so to build a 36 hole golf course at draper lake, it would be a perfect place to build a golf course. I know for a fact that Mayor Cornett and ex- Mayor Norick are avid golfers. Let's do it.

You cant be serious. You say its a good idea to commit $100 million of MAPS3dollars to build two golf courses? At Stanley Draper? This just shows how out of touch you and Iron are.

And wow, bobthebuilder must be the only private developer in OKC that is against MAPS3.

[SouthsideSooner]

Actually, I am for the development of the inner city as well as outer areas of the city. I just dont agree with the way that this MAPS 3 proposal is being portrayed. I dont agree with ballot and the motivation behind it.

What developments in the inter-city have you participated in, BOB?

[Chance23]

Oh yea, I've been paying close attention. You still haven't mentioned any "anti-MAPS group" besides the unions...

When I used "groups" I wasn't talking about organized resistance, I was talking about people who didn't support, and many who were completely outside the control of the union. Is that better for your semantics?

[purplemonkeythief]

And wow, bobthebuilder must be the only private developer in OKC that is against MAPS3.

Is there a list of private developers living in OKC that are for MAPS3?