Why Religion Must End

[DaveSkater]

Out of the 6.5 billion people on this planet nearly 5.8 billion believe in some sort of religion. It ain't going anywhere soon.

Dawkins, Harris and other "enlightened" secular fundamentalists would argue that christianity is bad for society and stands in the way of an so called ordered and intelligent civilization.

Harris states: "the degree to which religious ideas still determine govenmental policies - especially those of the United States - presents a grave danger to everyone."

Dawkins states that opposition to evolutionary dogma "comes from an exceedingly retarded, primitive version of religion, which unfortunately is at present undergoing an epidemic in the United States."

Dawkins and other contemporary aetheists bring nothing new to christianity bashing. People down thru the ages have urged believers to discard their "fairy tales" and "poorly written poems.

The problem with all of this of course is those pesky statistics. To quote Joseph Stalin, "A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic"

Here are a few more statistics for you to consider. These are not people who have died in wars, or by plague, but who were killed by militant aetheistic, christian hating communists, socialists, and facists. They were lined up on a wall and shot, or put in an oven and gassed for believing in God:

USSR from 1917 - 1987 61,000,000
Communist China 1949 to present 35,200,000
MAO's army 1923-1949 3,400,000
Nazi Germany 1932 - 1945 20,000,000
Communist Poland 1945 -48 1,600,000
Communist Cambodia 1975 -1979 2,000,000
Communist Vietnam 1945 - 1975 1,600,000
Communist Yugoslavia 1944-1987 1,000,000
Anti-Christian Mexican Revol 1900-1920 1,400,000
Turkey 1900-1918 1,800,000
Pakistan 1958 - 1987 1,500,000
Japan 1936 - 1945 5,900,000

Total 170,000,000 people put to death at the hands of an aetheistic state, for the betterment of the state or some sort of enlightened Utopia.

So, all of you aetheist out there who wish to thrust your "logic" and danger rhetoric down the rest of us believer's throats, save it. It's nothing new, and has been tried before, and 25,000,000 people died OUTSIDE of those numbers above fighting in wars initiated by those "enlightened" despots.

Damn them pesky details and statitics huh?


"PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION!!!"
Chaplain Howell Forgy; December, 1941 aboard the ship USS New Orleans at Pearl Harbor.

[Luke]

A religion to end all religion.

Sounds like a great idea!

[Stan Silliman]

Out of the 6.5 billion people on this planet nearly 5.8 billion believe in some sort of religion. It ain't going anywhere soon.

Dawkins, Harris and other "enlightened" secular fundamentalists would argue that christianity is bad for society and stands in the way of an so called ordered and intelligent civilization.

Harris states: "the degree to which religious ideas still determine govenmental policies - especially those of the United States - presents a grave danger to everyone."

Dawkins states that opposition to evolutionary dogma "comes from an exceedingly retarded, primitive version of religion, which unfortunately is at present undergoing an epidemic in the United States."

Dawkins and other contemporary aetheists bring nothing new to christianity bashing. People down thru the ages have urged believers to discard their "fairy tales" and "poorly written poems.

The problem with all of this of course is those pesky statistics. To quote Joseph Stalin, "A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic"

Here are a few more statistics for you to consider. These are not people who have died in wars, or by plague, but who were killed by militant aetheistic, christian hating communists, socialists, and facists. They were lined up on a wall and shot, or put in an oven and gassed for believing in God:

USSR from 1917 - 1987 61,000,000 *1
Communist China 1949 to present 35,200,000 *1
MAO's army 1923-1949 3,400,000 *1
Nazi Germany 1932 - 1945 20,000,000 *2
Communist Poland 1945 -48 1,600,000 *1
Communist Cambodia 1975 -1979 2,000,000 *1
Communist Vietnam 1945 - 1975 1,600,000 *1
Communist Yugoslavia 1944-1987 1,000,000 *1
Anti-Christian Mexican Revol 1900-1920 1,400,000
Turkey 1900-1918 1,800,000 *3
Pakistan 1958 - 1987 1,500,000 *4
Japan 1936 - 1945 5,900,000 *5

Total 170,000,000 people put to death at the hands of an aetheistic state, for the betterment of the state or some sort of enlightened Utopia.

So, all of you aetheist out there who wish to thrust your "logic" and danger rhetoric down the rest of us believer's throats, save it. It's nothing new, and has been tried before, and 25,000,000 people died OUTSIDE of those numbers above fighting in wars initiated by those "enlightened" despots.

Damn them pesky details and statitics huh?


"PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION!!!"
Chaplain Howell Forgy; December, 1941 aboard the ship USS New Orleans at Pearl Harbor.

Again, if we COULD get rid of religion, we'd also have to get rid of the "isms" who fervent followers resemble religiosity.

*1 Communists - who believed the only way the world would be be better off was is if everyone in the world were communists. Loyalty to the party and it's principles. That's a religion. How is that different to a degree from missionarys or the catholic church sending out their conquistadors?

*2 Nazis - Perverted form of Christianity who felt they were doing the world a favor by ridding us of jews, homos and communists.

*3 Turkey - Just another holy war, this time the Muslims ridding the world of Christian Armenians

*4 Pakistan - Muslims against Hindus. Another case against religion

*5 Japan - Hirohito was considered a diety. Same old fable: be a kamikaze and you'll be rewared as a martyr.

You can't get rid of religion without getting rid of all "isms" and utopiastic notions.

[PennyQuilts]

Good post, Stan. How's it going, these days?

[kd5ili]

Get rid of Religion and people will just find other excuses to either go to war or slaughter groups of people.

-Chris-

[edcrunk]

Religion killed Christ. He says if your enemy is hungry, feed him, thirsty... Give him something to drink. He also says to love the Lord with all your being and treat others how you would wish to be treated. That's how I strive to live... And when I mess up, I admit I was wrong and ask for forgiveness. I don't take veangeance cuz he says he will repay. Screw religion, but this rekationship I have with God is pretty frikkin rad.

[PennyQuilts]

Religion killed Christ. He says if your enemy is hungry, feed him, thirsty... Give him something to drink. He also says to love the Lord with all your being and treat others how you would wish to be treated. That's how I strive to live... And when I mess up, I admit I was wrong and ask for forgiveness. I don't take veangeance cuz he says he will repay. Screw religion, but this rekationship I have with God is pretty frikkin rad.

There you go, then!

[gmwise]

This is a questionable claim at best and totally unprovable.

In my time on here, I've observed that just on this site, those who are fringe left-wing are far more personal, far more combative and far nastier than those on the religious right. Certainly the righties are not without their moments but certain people on this site can't say a word without throwing in name-calling or insulting someone.

No Mugs its provable it would just take some time to go thru all the postings and read thru them all and determined where from the postings the poster leans too...

[gmwise]

Saw a funny picture of poor Sarah.
http://www.edkrebs.com/herb/Fascist-Palin-.jpg

[gmwise]

"The really dangerous American fascist... is the man who wants to do in the United States in an American way what Hitler did in Germany in a Prussian way. The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information. With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money or more power... They claim to be super-patriots, but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the Constitution. They demand free enterprise, but are the spokesmen for monopoly and vested interest. Their final objective, toward which all their deceit is directed, is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjection."
-- U.S. Vice President Henry A. Wallace, quoted in the New York Times, April 9, 1944


What did the Fascist regimes in Italy, Germany, and Spain have in common?
They consisted of a highly militarized state, backed by corporation and a wealthy elite, that rose to power through a false populism that exploited the public’s fear of foreigners and "moral degenerates".

This precisely defines the formula that Karl Rove designed to consolidate the Bush administration’s power in the recent election.
--Sean Donahue, Nov. 2004

I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good.... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."
--Randall Terry, quoted in The News-Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Indiana, August 16, 1993

The Constitution of the United States, for instance, is a marvelous document for self-government by the Christian people. But the minute you turn the document into the hands of non-Christian people and atheistic people they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society. And that's what's been happening.
--Pat Robertson


The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians.
--Pat Robertson


Get the few liberals out. If you don't do it, it ain't gonna be done. You will be doing the Lord's work, and he will richly bless you for it.
--Sen. James Inhofe, R-Oklahoma, Christian Coalition's Road to Victory Conference, 2002, Washington D.C


If I do not return to the pulpit this weekend, millions of people will go to hell.
-- Jimmy Swaggart

[OKCisOK4me]

A religion to end all religion.

Sounds like a great idea!

Isn't this Scientology?

[PennyQuilts]

I personally don't know any Christians particularly impressed with Jimmy.

[buckt]

The Mayflower's captain worked his way around the Cape, searching for a place to drop anchor, an intense debate ensued. By nightfall, the leaders had drafted an agreement, called the Mayflower Compact. Among its key clauses were these words: "Having undertaken for the glory of God and advancement of the Christian Faith . . . a voyage to plant the First Colony . . . [we] solemnly . . . in the presence of God and of one another, Covenant . . . ourselves together into a Civil Body Politic. . . . "

[buckt]

Consider these words from the Father of Our Country. On the eve of his leaving public life, Washington wrote to the Governors of the 13 States… his final paragraph of that letter:

“I now make it my earnest prayer, that God would have you, and the State over which you preside, in his holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the Citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to Government, to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow Citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the Field, and finally, that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all, to do Justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity, humility and pacific temper of mind, which were the Characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without a humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy Nation.”

[gmwise]

I personally don't know any Christians particularly impressed with Jimmy.

If you mean Jimmy Swaggert. I agree, but there they are....on second thought you think they borrowing their "audience" footage from Fox News?


lol

[DaveSkater]

I find it strangely ironic that this thread got so far off track. The thread reads, "Why religion must end." Every Christian hating dictator or state government that has said that very thing since 1900 has resulted in MILLIONS of people put to death for their beliefs.

170,000,000 people were EXTERMINATED on this very premise. Those who don't heed history are bound to repeat history. For 2010 years, people have believed and worshipped Jesus Christ. In those nearly 2010 years, no exterminations have been done in His Name or at His direction, because He never directed anyone to do so. Have there been lunatics that claimed to be following scripture do bad things? Yes. Have there been wars fought in His name? Yes. The difference is also quite clear. At the end of the day, He is still known as the Prince of Peace. To spread His word is to be a peaceful endeavor.

Atheism, or fundamental secularism when practiced at the state level or by a dictator or ruler is down right evil and murderous. The numbers, specifically the 170 million, prove that to be true. You can believe that atheism is not evil all you want, and you can go about proudly proclaiming yourself as one as much as you want too. Same with Satanists. They are afforded the same protections under freedom of religion. Just know what company you keep, and try not to paint it with a rosy innocent brush of "enlightenment" for the rest of us. Just know that you're in fine company with the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Marquis De Sade, Crowley, Anton LeVay, Mao and others of that ilk. Which is your right.

[gmwise]

In those nearly 2010 years, no exterminations have been done in His Name or at His direction, because He never directed anyone to do so. Have there been lunatics that claimed to be following scripture do bad things? Yes. Have there been wars fought in His name? Yes..

The Old Testament..Crusades, The Europeans arriving in the Western Hemisphere...
Part of the problem is the vagueness that the Bible was written, some would argue it was not meant to be a codified set of behavior such as the Leviticus or even parts of Exodus (that which govern the procedures and practices of the Priests).
It was and always been a US and THEM, it was bound to happened on the basis of either of these :color,culture,wealth,class, level of education,and political beliefs as well as religious ones.
Small minds and small people like to pick out differences to say how more American or Christian, or educated or wealthy (or whatever they feel is their only redeeming quality) they like comparing to those they are attacking.

[PennyQuilts]

The Old Testament predated 2010 years ago. Or thereabouts. I believe that number was selected to indicate from the time of the New Testament although there is a lot of disputes about the year of the birth of Christ.

The Pilgrims and Puritans got along pretty well with the American Natives as did the French. Religion wasn't really an issue - if they fought, it was over land or trade. The Spaniards had problems and frequently fell back on religious reasons but that appears to be more of a means to an end except for the Catholic missions. The Indian Wars after the Civil War was not fueled by religion except in individuals. Our Revoluntionary War wasn't about religion and wasn't against the natives. If you go back and read from that time in history, there was a distinct idea that Indians had their land and the Europeans had theirs.

[Stan Silliman]

I find it strangely ironic that this thread got so far off track. The thread reads, "Why religion must end." Every Christian hating dictator or state government that has said that very thing since 1900 has resulted in MILLIONS of people put to death for their beliefs.

170,000,000 people were EXTERMINATED on this very premise. Those who don't heed history are bound to repeat history. For 2010 years, people have believed and worshipped Jesus Christ. In those nearly 2010 years, no exterminations have been done in His Name or at His direction, because He never directed anyone to do so. Have there been lunatics that claimed to be following scripture do bad things? Yes. Have there been wars fought in His name? Yes. The difference is also quite clear. At the end of the day, He is still known as the Prince of Peace. To spread His word is to be a peaceful endeavor.

Atheism, or fundamental secularism when practiced at the state level or by a dictator or ruler is down right evil and murderous. The numbers, specifically the 170 million, prove that to be true. You can believe that atheism is not evil all you want, and you can go about proudly proclaiming yourself as one as much as you want too. Same with Satanists. They are afforded the same protections under freedom of religion. Just know what company you keep, and try not to paint it with a rosy innocent brush of "enlightenment" for the rest of us. Just know that you're in fine company with the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Marquis De Sade, Crowley, Anton LeVay, Mao and others of that ilk. Which is your right.

Weapons of mass destruction will eventually give way to weapons of ultimate destruction and if they're used they'll either be used for an "ism" or for a religion.

The "isms" are just as much to blame for our messes as are religions - and by that I mean all religions.

[gmwise]

.... If you go back and read from that time in history, there was a distinct idea that Indians had their land and the Europeans had theirs.

PQ, its not just the "natives" and how Europeans treated them, the Puritans murdered people believing them to be witches and warlocks or the servants of the devil, on the unsubstantiated testimony of spurned or jealous lovers, and pure hateful people and other instances of the US and THEM, statement I made earlier.
Also the force removal and the genocidal behavior of this country towards the "natives", for example cant be overlooked
Did ya happen to read that period of history?

I think that period of history caused the region (New England for one), to be so liberal in thinking.
Once again the POV I given was in answer to DAVE's statement.
Hope you will read it again.
Thanks

[PennyQuilts]

GM, I appreciate your reminding me about the witch hunts. It was a shameful episode in this country's history that fortunately didn't come close to the wholesale slaughters that took place in the old country. That they didn't engage in the scale as across the pond is to our credit. To this day, if you want to get a Christian riled, start talking witches having rights. But I personally don't think that is the basis for the liberal mindedness of the North East even though I agree the witch hunts were definitely Christianity fueled.

I think the primary reasons that part of the country is so liberal minded goes back to who settled it in the first place and who immigrated, thereafter. The puritan model kept government from religion because it felt such worldly things demeaned religion. That attitude has continued since that time. In addition, you have a huge population of of immigrants who aren't Christian who have settled in the Mid Atlantic States on up through New England. When I worked in the Commerce Department, more than half of upper management were Jewish. I know this because they always took off for Jewish holidays. Husband works for another federal agency and it is the same thing.

[Stan Silliman]

Good post, Stan. How's it going, these days?

I'm doing okay, with my one good hand. Is that you, ECO?

[PennyQuilts]

I'm doing okay, with my one good hand. Is that you, ECO?

Yes, indeed. I asked Stan to change it since we'll be home, soon. What is wrong with the other hand?

[gmwise]

Yes, indeed. I asked Stan to change it since we'll be home, soon. What is wrong with the other hand?

Though I am not part of the conversation, I am laughing...(asking a guy about his hands)

[PennyQuilts]

Maybe I should have just nodded and kept my confusion to myself. In dealing with men, sometimes it is just better to do that...