OKC Public Safety Already Has a Permanent Funding Source From Sales Tax

[Wambo36]

Wambo - I did grow up in MWC, but live in OKC now. I know a number of MWC PD and FD officers. The city has made up for anything they did at that time with plenty "gifts" for the department in the last couple of years. Remember that in the years that they weren't given raises, schools were laying off teachers because of huge budget problems in the state. I see no reason why civic employees should be any different from other groups and be protected in tough times. And 29th has done a crapload of good for the budget of MWC...which in turn makes more available for the departments in sales tax dollars. They might have lost a little at one time, but it's a give and take...and they got plenty out of it. You don't see MWC folks in anything but the best of equipment, now do you?

As for OKC, personally, I am going to remember how these two groups are acting when my voting comes around. I'm going to approve Maps 3 no matter what these groups say. And next time a vote comes around to approve something for these groups, they're going to have to do a better and more factual and precise job of convincing me that they need this. A lot of the arguments I've seen on the part of these groups are wants, not needs. They say they need this item or that, but really they're just to beef up an already more than adequate system. You want to see someone with problems, go find a volunteer group with a 50 year old truck. Don't piss and moan about a 10 or 15 year old one to me. You want man power, I'll give you that one...but find me a police or fire department somewhere in the country that doesn't always want more manpower.

Maybe you need to call some of your friends on the FD to get a clearer picture. Surely you didn't miss them picketing city hall with their supporters and families? As far as any "gifts" I'm not sure what your talking about. Enlighten me. I can asssure you they didn't see them as gifts in lieu of their raises. There was a straight forward deal made, and the city reneged on their part of it. Now the PD did get caught up, but only to keep them from joining the FD in their informational picket.
As far as your stance on the OKC PD and FD, that's entirely your perogative. You and Betts and other like minded people certainly need to vote your conscience. I wouldn't expect anything different. If our arguments sound like "wants over needs" and the MAPS 3 ballot sounds like needs to you, then I'm pretty sure you and I are wasting our breath on each other.
I don't think you've seen anybody say we need items or equipment. This is about staffing plain and simple. We are operating our dept. below the numbers we had 10 years ago, while the minimum staffing levels have been raised by the city. Even the city has grudgingly admitted there is a problem.

[bombermwc]

Yeah we're wasting time on one another. And picketing in MWC....wasn't as big a deal as you think it was. They have a comfy state of life....if they didn't like it, they could have moved on to a different department by now. But this discussion isn't about the way the politics played out in MWC...my point at MWC was that it didn't take an ANTI vote of 29th by the FD to end up making things work out. And they did, whether you think so or not.

But back to OKC, yeah I'm going to continue to help vote in support of projects proven to help support and advance my city. I've said all along, it's not that I don't support the Fire or Police departments. What I don't support is the way they are going about their argument. If there is a problem, it needs to be address on its own. We're not playing the amendment game here where we tack crap on so it gets through. If there is a problem, get it address on its own and stop trying to hijack other projects.

[Laramie]

In fairness to the other side, Pulse, the 3/4 cent earmarked sales tax has been around since 1989 but the amount is obviously not enough enough to provide for permanent staffing of additional fire fighters and police. I've suggested in another thread that, if the public favors the union staffing need position that an additional dedicated tax of another 1/4 cent or so shouldn't have that much trouble passing.

Good point Doug; We passed one for the zoo and it has been productive and the animals are quiet for now; maybe we can pass a permanent sales (1/4 penny sales tax) for police & fire; this could quiet them until MAPS 4--expanded Rail, Soccer/Track/Football Stadium, and MAPS One aging improvements...

[MGE1977]

Good point Doug; We passed one for the zoo and it has been productive and the animals are quiet for now; maybe we can pass a permanent sales (1/4 penny sales tax) for police & fire; this could quiet them until MAPS 4--expanded Rail, Soccer/Track/Football Stadium, and MAPS One aging improvements...

Listen mac, P.S. has always backed MAPS projects, until THIS MAPS hence the name of the campaign. You're using a bad tone, insinuating that we are like animals and you are marginalizing people. If the city gets its stuff in a pile, puts its money where it is needed first (back into personnel for all departments), and then pushes MAPS - right on. P.S. is below agreed upon staffing numbers, agreed upon numbers, Atari what do you think would happen if we fought this fight retrospectively to an MIII passage. I can say honestly that a fat council with properly lined pockets would deny every request, every need as is their custom during times of negotiation. P.S. will not strike, it is against the law, and more importantly against the ethics upon which rest their profession in providing safety to the masses, what they have is good faith negotiations, the city crapped on that idea and we are where we are. This is not unions holding progress hostage, this is progress threatening to cripple and weaken the legs upon which it stands. City leaders are claiming theirs is the path of growth, certainly they've spread enough manure to grow their money tree from the Yes voters.

[Wambo36]

But this discussion isn't about the way the politics played out in MWC...my point at MWC was that it didn't take an ANTI vote of 29th by the FD to end up making things work out. And they did, whether you think so or not.

Your right, this isn't about MWC. I wasn't the one who brought them into it. Just so you know though, I talked to one of them less than a half hour ago, and he found your assertion that they had "ended up making things work out" laughable at best. Suffice it to say they are chalking it up to a lesson learned.