New OCU Law School (dead)

[Midtowner]

Also, "affordable parking" means they want them to pay for parking. That's a MAJOR minus to current on-campus options.

On campus parking is by no means free for law students.

[kevinpate]

I asked the same question when this rumor came up a while back and was told by a couple of the lawyers on the thread that having the law school in close proximity to the law firms in town is a great advantage. Not being a lawyer, I don't know much more than that, but maybe it helps.

I seem to recall OCU law facilities, though very nice, are not all under one roof. If that's right, I believe that may have an impact on the institution's accredited status, not just general perception. Could be wrong.

If they do need to revamp, plugging the program into facilities near those areas beyond academia, such as the jail and city and district courts and the private sector, while also staying reasonably close to the state government complex, isn't a bad solution.

[PennyQuilts]

I can see the pros. Like I said, my biggest beef besides sentiment is parking. Parking is a big deal. Pay for it or not, you gotta have it.

[Midtowner]

I seem to recall OCU law facilities, though very nice, are not all under one roof. If that's right, I believe that may have an impact on the institution's accredited status, not just general perception. Could be wrong.

If they do need to revamp, plugging the program into facilities near those areas beyond academia, such as the jail and city and district courts and the private sector, while also staying reasonably close to the state government complex, isn't a bad solution.

That is correct. Having the library and the law school under one roof is one of the things the ABA accreditation committee looks at. Now, when Mr. Morris in his interview with Tom McDaniel on the newsok.com site (interview attached to Steve Lackmeyer's story) made the claim that these facilities were on "opposite ends" of campus, he immediately revealed he has no earthly idea what he's talking about. The distance is probably around 100 yards, give or take a few, depending on where you want to say Sarkey's begins and ends.

I haven't read much about Dean Hellman's proposed "Innocence Project," but I'd envision some sort of foundation which allows law students who are licensed legal interns [which requires you be about 2/3 of the way through law school, pass certain classes and pass an exam] to provide pro-bono services for indigents... a win-win, really.

Considering what they're charging per credit hour these days, the only time many of these students will ever be able to provide pro bono services for anyone will be while they're still in school.. in which case, ironically, they're actually paying a lot of money for the privilege of doing indigent defense work.

[kevinpate]

On campus parking is by no means free for law students.

LOL, the last free student parking I enjoyed was in high school and that was well, a while ago. And even high schoolers pay to park now, though far less than my college permits were.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Don't Bricktown (parking lot) my Film Row

[OKCMallen]

A gift with strings attached. You can't get much more benevolent than that.

You have no idea what you're talking about..."gift" my ass. It's a private entity that can do what it wants to do, and if it doesn't like its prospects moving downtown without MAPS3 then that's its business.

[OKCMallen]

I am not trying to be argumentative but I would like to address the comments that seem to suggest that moving the law school downtown would sort of be a boon for the merchants in the area. My experience with law school was that we didn't do a lot of sitting around in corner cafes, drinking coffee and being urbane. Most of us were working our butts off, half freaked out and trying to juggle our responsibilities to make it all work. By the time we got to our third year, we were pretty much working full-time and trying to impress prospective employers. Hanging out making the area look cosmopolitan (as if we could) wasn't all that noticible. Law School was as different from undergrad as day from night. Most of us left for lunch or skipped it. I liked to go to VZD's. But for students on a budget, there better be some fast food close by. Downtown is not particularly cheap, day in and day out.

All that being said, I was there when they built the Sarkey's Building so moving away from it is odd to me, emotionally. Seems like we just moved in. But a lot has been going on in the past 15 years or so.

Much of that was due to the fact that OCU's campus is not fun, nor is there anywhere you'd want to walk from campus.

This would be completely different and would absoutely increase patronage downtown, even if just a little.

I don't know when you went to law school, but when I did, there was PLENTY of socializing.

[andy157]

You have no idea what you're talking about..."gift" my ass. It's a private entity that can do what it wants to do, and if it doesn't like its prospects moving downtown without MAPS3 then that's its business.

Chill out there stud. If I don't know what I'm talking about, then what the hell makes you think you do?

[PennyQuilts]

Much of that was due to the fact that OCU's campus is not fun, nor is there anywhere you'd want to walk from campus.

This would be completely different and would absoutely increase patronage downtown, even if just a little.

I don't know when you went to law school, but when I did, there was PLENTY of socializing.

I was in the early ninties. I was day classes (geared more to the "kids"/traditional students) but with a family and responsibilities so I didn't get to pawty the way some did.

[PennyQuilts]

If I don't know what I'm talking about, then what the hell makes you think you do?

OMG, I love that line. I'd not heard it before.

[OKCMallen]

Chill out there stud. If I don't know what I'm talking about, then what the hell makes you think you do?

Because you apparently have zero perspective on how a private entity should be "expected" to act. And I do. Pretty simple really.

OCU Law owes no "gifts" to anyone. They owe their students and alumni their best effort to improve- not a "gift" to downtown, you, anyone else. For you to posture as though OCU Law is somehow acting selfishly to a level which merits rebuke or scornful implications exhibits your own ill-founded sense of self-entitlement.

"Andy157"....is that you Dean Coats???

[PennyQuilts]

OKCMallen, did you get the Dean's newsletter?

[ronronnie1]

Just my uninformed opinion, but:

More people downtown = good.

Redevloping a run down but historic building for a new use = good.

That's all.

[andy157]

Because you apparently have zero perspective on how a private entity should be "expected" to act. And I do. Pretty simple really.

OCU Law owes no "gifts" to anyone. They owe their students and alumni their best effort to improve- not a "gift" to downtown, you, anyone else. For you to posture as though OCU Law is somehow acting selfishly to a level which merits rebuke or scornful implications exhibits your own ill-founded sense of self-entitlement.

"Andy157"....is that you Dean Coats???

Are you a lawyer? If you are, please tell me you don't overreact this way in the courtroom. Here's the deal, as it turns out I really did know what I was talking about, and you didn't. Maybe this will ease your mind, my comments had nothing to do OCU. Just so you'll know, I am not Dean Coats. But if he were here, I'm sure you would have made him very unhappy.

[tehvipir]

what about all the homeless people down there. what are they going to do with them once they leave the mission. i think the cars will get vandalized along with assaults going up. i think that maybe they should ship the homeless out to maybe dallas or somewhere before trying to bring a nice expensive college to the area with nice innocent people. Hey wait maybe the homeless people will be moved to the NEW 70 ACRE Park since OCPD wont have the staffing to patrol the park to keep them out. perfect then they can infect the mass transit and street cars with their mouthwash drinking and selling of drugs. unless something gets done with the homeless this could be not so good of a place.

[john60]

Just my uninformed opinion, but:

More people downtown = good.

Redevloping a run down but historic building for a new use = good.

That's all.

Agree with that...this is GREAT for the city! And, call it whatever you want, but I would have to imagine that for OCU, moving into a state of the art facility does nothing but good things for rankings, accreditation ratings, ability to draw great faculty, etc.

[hoya]

That is correct. Having the library and the law school under one roof is one of the things the ABA accreditation committee looks at.

I dunno, my law school had a separate building for the library. They rank okay.

I haven't read much about Dean Hellman's proposed "Innocence Project," but I'd envision some sort of foundation which allows law students who are licensed legal interns [which requires you be about 2/3 of the way through law school, pass certain classes and pass an exam] to provide pro-bono services for indigents... a win-win, really.

The Innocence Project allows law students to work on cases where DNA evidence may prove a particular inmate was wrongfully convicted. Usually they work on death penalty cases.

--

I don't know about the rest of you, but I lived on campus for my first two years, and spent a lot of time there. I didn't have a car, and used public transit to get around. I think that's what OCU is looking to do here. And the number of homeless people in the area pales compared to what it was like in DC.

The courthouse is definitely within walking distance of the Fred Jones building. Takes about ten minutes.

[jstanthrnme]

what about all the homeless people down there. what are they going to do with them once they leave the mission. i think the cars will get vandalized along with assaults going up. i think that maybe they should ship the homeless out to maybe dallas or somewhere before trying to bring a nice expensive college to the area with nice innocent people. Hey wait maybe the homeless people will be moved to the NEW 70 ACRE Park since OCPD wont have the staffing to patrol the park to keep them out. perfect then they can infect the mass transit and street cars with their mouthwash drinking and selling of drugs. unless something gets done with the homeless this could be not so good of a place.

Okay, I normaly avoid these threads, but this seems out of place. Sure it is an issue, but not an issue regarding this particular topic. I've become a good friend of some of those who "live" in the mission, and they are truly good people. Though there are also those who don't live to certain standards too, but there people like that who have a place to live...Simply the Malthusian principle.

The fact is, that there will always be a class of citizens who live in poverty, and the concentration will typically be in an urban area.

That is a testament to the development we need to see downtown.

Regarding the OCU Law school moving, I am all for it. I'm an OCU alumn, not law though, and live in Gatewood between OCU and downtown. The streetcar would be AWESOME!

[jbrown84]

Hey wait maybe the homeless people will be moved to the NEW 70 ACRE Park since OCPD wont have the staffing to patrol the park to keep them out. perfect then they can infect the mass transit and street cars with their mouthwash drinking and selling of drugs.

Pretty sure cops are already patrolling the site of the future park just fine. It's not like it's District 9.

If the law school is in Fred Jones, Tannebaum's prayers as to what to do about his parking situation could easily be answered.

Are you referring to the Park Harvey? What parking situation?

[jstanthrnme]

what about all the homeless people down there. what are they going to do with them once they leave the mission. i think the cars will get vandalized along with assaults going up. i think that maybe they should ship the homeless out to maybe dallas or somewhere before trying to bring a nice expensive college to the area with nice innocent people. Hey wait maybe the homeless people will be moved to the NEW 70 ACRE Park since OCPD wont have the staffing to patrol the park to keep them out. perfect then they can infect the mass transit and street cars with their mouthwash drinking and selling of drugs. unless something gets done with the homeless this could be not so good of a place.

Okay, I normaly avoid these threads, but this seems out of place. Sure it is an issue, but not an issue regarding this particular topic. I've become a good friend of some of those who "live" in the mission, and they are truly good people. Though there are also those who don't live to certain standards too, but there people like that who have a place to live...Simply the Malthusian principle.

The fact is, that there will always be a class of citizens who live in poverty, and the concentration will typically be in an urban area.

That is a testament to the development we need to see downtown.

Regarding the OCU Law school moving, I am all for it. I'm an OCU alumn, not law though, and live in Gatewood between OCU and downtown. The streetcar would be AWESOME!

[Midtowner]

Are you referring to the Park Harvey? What parking situation?

Devon and the Oklahoma Tower both bought exclusive rights (or the whole garage) in the two closest parking facilities to the apartments.

[onthestrip]

what about all the homeless people down there. what are they going to do with them once they leave the mission. i think the cars will get vandalized along with assaults going up. i think that maybe they should ship the homeless out to maybe dallas or somewhere before trying to bring a nice expensive college to the area with nice innocent people. Hey wait maybe the homeless people will be moved to the NEW 70 ACRE Park since OCPD wont have the staffing to patrol the park to keep them out. perfect then they can infect the mass transit and street cars with their mouthwash drinking and selling of drugs. unless something gets done with the homeless this could be not so good of a place.

Really? Really?

tehvipir, surely these arent your honest opinions?

[RedDirt717]

Just my uninformed opinion, but:

You really should preface most of your posts with this.


*ba dum* *ching*

[Larry OKC]

...This all makes complete sense to me, let's make this happen now. Later, we can ammend the mistakes so that everyone feels better about the rules/approach to MAPS 4.

What would give them ANY incentive to fix MAPS 4 if MAPS 3 passes? If it just barely passes, then maybe. The only way I think they will give the vague ballot language etc any thought in the future is if: (1) they are challenged in court about it and lose; (2) the measure doesn't pass or; (3) they come to their senses and postpone the election date and fix it before hand.