NBA Players Think OKC is Boring...boo hoo

[Larry OKC]

I'd love to. Just need get a few hundred K to get it goin.

Dont think he meant actually owning it but as a customer making it your own...then again could be wrong

[OKCisOK4me]

In all honesty, if we can just build up our two trash mountains (the one over on I-240 & the one south of I-40 on the West side of OKC) then I think Nick Collison might feel just a little more at home. We could cover it with fake snow during the winter time and he'd have somewhere to go skiing/snowboarding--whatever it is that he likes to do. And if it's too warm like they're predicting this year with the ol' El Nino then we can cover it with saw dust--an excellent substitute for snow and actually better when it comes to snowmobiling!

[CrimsonOberon]

Honestly, OKC is the kind of place where you have to search for something to do. It is not a place where you will walk down one road and immediately be met with dozens of choices.

I love this city, though. I love the people, I love the cleanliness, I love the atmosphere, and not having clubs on every corner or bars every few blocks is a worthwhile tradeoff to me. I know this is an interesting little dilemma, since NBA players need and want amusements, as well, but I don't want our city to become an LA or NYC just to make some athletes happy.

San Antonio didn't have to become an entertainment mecca in order to produce champions; Green Bay didn't have to, either; why can't OKC do the same thing?

It is too bad if some of our players think it is boring. In all honesty, I can't blame them because this city is definitely not the type of city that never sleeps.

This is the kind of city where people will give you a smile and a handshake - and buy tickets in record numbers for preseason and regular season games that pay for salaries.

[nik4411]

In all honesty, if we can just build up our two trash mountains (the one over on I-240 & the one south of I-40 on the West side of OKC) then I think Nick Collison might feel just a little more at home. We could cover it with fake snow during the winter time and he'd have somewhere to go skiing/snowboarding--whatever it is that he likes to do. And if it's too warm like they're predicting this year with the ol' El Nino then we can cover it with saw dust--an excellent substitute for snow and actually better when it comes to snowmobiling!

this is a little off topic, but where are they predicting it to be warm?

[okclee]

Don't most of the Thunder players live in Edmond?

[BG918]

Don't most of the Thunder players live in Edmond?

No wonder they're bored. If you're going to live in an OKC suburb you might as well live in Norman.

[Rover]

Did I just miss it or where is the story with quotes from players actually saying they were bored and it was a bad thing? I have read where they think it is slow, but that it is a good thing.

Not all these kids come from LA or NYC, and not all like to do the all night partying thing either. I've read where they like being normal and being treated normally in their off time.

[dcsooner]

Rover
Uh most come from DC, LA, or other major cities and yes MOST 20 somethings want to hang out and have a goog time. Why do you think most Oklahoma HS and college grads leave the State?

[nik4411]

uh no you would be very wrong by saying most players are from major cities. some yes, most, definitely not.

[betts]

I suspect the coaches are happy that OKC is boring. We've all been joking that perhaps the reason Kevin Durant didn't play well last night is because he did a wee bit too much celebrating after the Texas win Saturday night. But, the truth is, if there were too many things to do, it might have some effect on performance. When the league was making noises about putting a team in Las Vegas, I always wondered if David Stern was sure he wanted NBA players in Vegas 41 nights a year. What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas, unless you happen to be famous.

[dcsooner]

We can rationalize all we like, BUT the truth is that OKC is not as vibrant and exciting as I venture to say all other NBA cities except maybe Sacramento. All this justifying of the cities lack of density and diversity of activity is a distraction to actually trying to improve the quality of life areas that are lacking. OKC is one of the largest cities I have ever visited that doesn't have a DT department store, to say the least a grocery store. I am not bashing but I am truthful. We talk about the great family environment in OKC well by the time most NBA players are settled and family oriented they are likely approaching 30-35 years old, great for a slow city but not so great for winning basketball. I ask again why does OKC and Oklahoma in general continue to lose large numbers of its young people after graduation? This consistent exodus creates a void in energy, talent, and diversity leaving the city with many who do not embrace new ideas, choose to remain in a stagnant mode and settle for OKC being a big ole "town". That's ok but don't try to call it something else.

[Larry OKC]

...I ask again why does OKC and Oklahoma in general continue to lose large numbers of its young people after graduation? ...

Honestly, is Oklahoma that different than other areas of the country? Unless you are from a New York, there is always going to be the "grass is greener...". As others have pointed out, if on vacation (nice place to visit but wouldn't want to live there) or a relocation to somewhere else (usually job related), makes people appreciate what they left behind and as maturity develops, they return to the same type of place they grew up in.

[PennyQuilts]

A lot of starting salaries in Oklahoma are low and the draw of higher starting salaries pulls many graduates away. That was my experience, anyway. Plus, as has been pointed out, a lot of twenty somethings like the challange and excitement of someplace new. The flip side is that kids that go to school back east often have such tremendous student loans that even if they wanted to, they couldn't afford to come to Oklahoma until those loans are paid down. Debts of over a hundred grand aren't uncommon and until you can work your way out of that bondage, Oklahoma and its lower salaries is not an option, notwithstanding the lower cost of living. After a few years, though, changing lifestyles and a different financial situation makes Oklahoma seem a lot more attractive.

[dcsooner]

Honestly, is Oklahoma that different than other areas of the country?

I think that it is. At the very least many young people move to larger Cities within the same State, but Oklahoma FOR MANY YEARS has been known as a "donor" State. I wish someone would do a survey of Oklahoma youth ages 18-25 and ask them WHY they move away, I think it would validate what I am saying about lack of job opportunities and general lack of diversity of quality of life. I am not talking about oceans, or mountains or any other natural attraction, I am talking about simple pleasures like a Whole Foods. We get excited on this forum about a new "fast food" resturant, whow!. The argument that Oklahoma is "attractive" to younger out is Staters is just not supported by facts. Again, once people get to their mid 30's with kids then a slower paced place like Oklahoma may be in order, but demographic analysis of movement trends DOES NOT support the notion that people of any demographic are moving to Oklahoma in large numbers, hence our continued drop in most populous States to about 29 with Colorado and now Oregon surpassing us since 1980.

[PennyQuilts]

Not to challenge DCSooner - not my intent, but as a purely personal aside, speaking as an older person - everytime I read about Whole Foods I think the young kids have waaaaaayyyyyy more discretionary income than I had at that age. All I wanted was cheap food to make sure my kids were fed. The notion of a GROCERY STORE even being on the radar of anything but a place to buy needed food supplies is still startling.

I am not trying to start a fight - just commenting on the differences in viewpoints. My kids love Whole Foods. To me, however, as long as it is clean and reasonable, I'm good. Just shows how things have changed. To think that a particular grocery store chain would make the slightest difference weirds me out - it just seems so superficial - to me. I'm not attacking. I just don't really get it. I suspect it has to do with growing up in relatively lean times instead of fat ones.

[dcsooner]

"Whole Foods" represents "urban", sophisticated, healthy lifestyle food shopping to young professionals, just like Neiman Marcus, Lord and Taylor and other Department Stores represent upscale shopping. That is why young and old drive 3 hours to Dallas to "shop" and eat in upscale restuarants, shopping centers, entertainment and leisure venues (Frontier City is not upscale). When players and staff from other teams come to OKC they cannot experience these options, you can in similar sized cities like Nashville, New Orleans, Portland, Salt Lake City, and I dare say Memphis.

[RedDirt717]

No wonder they're bored. If you're going to live in an OKC suburb you might as well live in Norman.

But there are actually a lot of things to do in Norman. I've lived in a few major cities, A few suburbs in OKC and I can say with absolute clarity that Edmond is the most boring place I've ever been in my entire life.

It's great to raise a family but I really hate it here right now.

I get out as often as possible.

[PennyQuilts]

"Whole Foods" represents "urban", sophisticated, healthy lifestyle food shopping to young professionals, just like Neiman Marcus, Lord and Taylor and other Department Stores represent upscale shopping. That is why young and old drive 3 hours to Dallas to "shop" and eat in upscale restuarants, shopping centers, entertainment and leisure venues (Frontier City is not upscale). When players and staff from other teams come to OKC they cannot experience these options, you can in similar sized cities like Nashville, New Orleans, Portland, Salt Lake City, and I dare say Memphis.

Yes, I know that. I also don't shop at Neiman Marcus or Lord and Taylor. I was way too close to the hippie anti-establishment to want to support that sort of thing. And I never really understood wanting to show off labels, either.

That being said, my aversion is not something simply directed at the kids. When I was growing up, showing off by buying expensive items was something of my grandparents' era and I always found it sort of tacky, as if they had something to prove. I think that sort of thing sort of ebbs and flows with the generations. My generation rebelled against it. The ones that bookend us often think that is impressive.

[progressiveboy]

"Whole Foods" represents "urban", sophisticated, healthy lifestyle food shopping to young professionals, just like Neiman Marcus, Lord and Taylor and other Department Stores represent upscale shopping. That is why young and old drive 3 hours to Dallas to "shop" and eat in upscale restuarants, shopping centers, entertainment and leisure venues (Frontier City is not upscale). When players and staff from other teams come to OKC they cannot experience these options, you can in similar sized cities like Nashville, New Orleans, Portland, Salt Lake City, and I dare say Memphis.

Agree. There are wealthy people in OKC but for the most part there is not the wealth like there are in Dallas, Tulsa, Kansas City (I am speaking on a regional basis). The few people that do have money in OKC love to go to Dallas and Kansas City to shop because they offer what OKC will probably never have. If OKC had more upscale jobs and white collar jobs then it would attract people from other cities and the descretionary income would jump quite significent, but until city and State leaders change their "mindset" then OKC and the State of OK will always be a donor state. I can see where NBA players have the perception that OKC is boring. The city must cater to all people that includes 20 somethings not just families.

[betts]

It's not even Whole Foods or Neiman Marcus necessarily, except for kids who have the incomes of basketball players. It's hip neighborhoods. Imagine the Plaza District with six or seven different restaurants, two or three young designers with shops selling their personal designs, perhaps a Ralph Lauren Rugby shop, an Urban Outfitters and a few similar stores, three bars with live music or a DJ at night, an art gallery or two, a local grocery store and a bank. Then, the surrounding houses are owned or rented by young twenty somethings, with 30 somethings with families sprinkled in. A neighborhood like that comes alive at night. We need more of those than just Deep Deuce, and Deep Deuce needs more retail and other services to feel like a real neighborhood.

The problem is, it's a chicken and egg sort of thing. You need the young people to begin staying, to make it profitable for the bars, restaurants and stores, and yet without the bars, restaurants and stores, the young people look elsewhere.

[okcpulse]

"Whole Foods" represents "urban", sophisticated, healthy lifestyle food shopping to young professionals, just like Neiman Marcus, Lord and Taylor and other Department Stores represent upscale shopping. That is why young and old drive 3 hours to Dallas to "shop" and eat in upscale restuarants, shopping centers, entertainment and leisure venues (Frontier City is not upscale). When players and staff from other teams come to OKC they cannot experience these options, you can in similar sized cities like Nashville, New Orleans, Portland, Salt Lake City, and I dare say Memphis.

Well, dcsooner, we all want a Whole Foods in OKC but the damn company won't put a location there. So I ask YOU, who needs to take the initiation on this? There are a lot of things OKC desires but it's out of our hands until the company comes to OKC and says "I want to open a location in your market."

And as long as people keep pouring there money all over Dallas, I honestly feel it kills the OKC market. Don't you? I mean, I don't fault people for driving to Dallas, but it is a double edge sword.

OKC does have the right deomgraphics for such amenities, otherwise everyone wouldn't be driving to Dallas for those amenities, would they? I think we need to change our attitude from "OKC is boring, get used to it" to "We don't want OKC to be boring".

[PennyQuilts]

I couldn't have afforded any of those things when I was young and that wasn't all that long ago. A date night was something that requried us to save up for for about a month. We took a vacation about every five years other than camping or visiting family (if we were lucky). Actually, that is somewhat of an exaggeration. Took a cruise my dad paid for when I was 18. Went to Northern California when I was 39. That's pretty much it. We just didn't have the money for it and spending it on a vacation when there were bills to pay was just not done. That is just the way it was for those of us on a budget. I've bought one new car in my life and can't imagine ever buying another one. I still think that was a stupid move. Paying big-time to be entertained seemed sort of self indulgent. But I will say that we tended to eat out a lot as the kids got older and that was expensive. Probably cost more than we needed to pay.

The different expectations of what is normal probably has something to do with why the twenty somethings are so frustrated and many of the old timers just don't "get" why any of that is even on the radar. The older ones who do "get" it are probably the ones who know they are going to make money off the deal.

[max]

It's not even Whole Foods or Neiman Marcus necessarily, except for kids who have the incomes of basketball players. It's hip neighborhoods. Imagine the Plaza District with six or seven different restaurants, two or three young designers with shops selling their personal designs, perhaps a Ralph Lauren Rugby shop, an Urban Outfitters and a few similar stores, three bars with live music or a DJ at night, an art gallery or two, a local grocery store and a bank. Then, the surrounding houses are owned or rented by young twenty somethings, with 30 somethings with families sprinkled in. A neighborhood like that comes alive at night. We need more of those than just Deep Deuce, and Deep Deuce needs more retail and other services to feel like a real neighborhood.

I honestly think this would all be addressed by making moves on serious rail-based transit now, as well as fostering and allowing the current business momentum to continue. Our city's past has created this void, and we need to implement serious catalysts to get past it. Between rail transit (which Dallas started serious planning of in the 80s, granted Dallas is much larger than we are), which will serve to densify and connect our districts, and the beautification and private investment that some of our larger corporate neighbors are implementing (Devon and Chesapeake immediately come to mind), we will be there before too long.

As someone mentioned previously (possibly Metro), we have several great districts that are destinations and are simply hurt by the fact that they are too far apart and lack real connection. Western Avenue is a great district with amazing residential architecture nearby that rivals most any city, it just has to be connected enough to have more people there and more critical mass. Same for Plaza, which I can't even recognize from 10 years ago when I first saw it. Midtown is making great strides from when I first worked there, and looking over downtown from a crowded McNellie's is a huge step. Comparing it to Dallas's or Kansas City's Midtown or whatever is unfair and is just going to give us city envy, because we're far behind on urbanization and that's just a fact. If instead, we look ahead, patronize the great local businesses we have, work for real transit to tighten up the inner city, and focus on what we can do to fix it, this place is going to be incredible in ten years. Just as long as we keep the momentum and continue implementing civic plans that will foster the inner city.

And of course, this is just an argument on hearsay about NBA players, but the sentiment does exist in the greater community.

[benman]

Sure there is a large number of college and HS grads that move out of state. 4 out of 5 of my best friends who went out of state to college came back after 2 years. They were also the people that told me I should "branch out" and not go to school in state. After college, again I had many friends move to another city (most went to Dallas). The main reason was becasue they found a good job, but they realized that 75% of the 20 somethings down there are living way above their means and the glamour started to lose its appeal. These people are now back in OKC or Tulsa with even better jobs. I will say many smart graduates are realizing Oklahoma is a great place to start and actually get ahead of others that move off to the larger cities,give most of their income to keeping up with everyone else, and some overpriced apartment. Soon it will be OKC, Tulsa, Austin, Charlotte, Birmingham, and the other 1,000,000 average population cities across the south that will start to see exceptional growth. Its already happening, and people across the nation are are starting to realize it. As long as we can keep the momentum in the city going, we are poised to see some really great things happen.
Back to topic about about the NBA players: Some will love it here and some will not. Every city will have some that love it and some that dont. Either way, they make millions of bucks and can hop on a jet in the off season and go wherever they want. I would live and play in Fargo and not complain once if I had the opportunity pro athletes have.

[PennyQuilts]

No question that OKC has exploded in building up some nice areas in the past ten years. I'm so proud of it I could explode.