There are plenty of people waiting to take their jobs.
Bring back the bucket brigade!
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
There are plenty of people waiting to take their jobs.
Bring back the bucket brigade!
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
PUSH POLLING IS BEING DONE BY SOMEONE IN THE CHAMBER!!!!!!!!
Wow...now the truth...
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
Link? Or something more than rumor? Seems hard to believe considering the questions being asked.Originally Posted by iron76hd
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
They should ask "Would you support MAPS3 if the KKK did since the program does nothing for the mostly black east side?"
That'd be a good question!
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
I have no idea if there is push polling going on but if your reffering to what Mark Shannon has on his site it looks like regular polling to me. There is a difference between polling and push polling.
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
Not the truth. I know for a FACT the Chamber is not behind this.
Not only was I a recipient of said poll, but when I started hearing some of the questions being asked, I asked the pollster to dictate to me some of the exact questions. They were then forwarded to folks at the Chamber who are involved in putting the campaign together.
I can tell you unequivocally that this particular poll is NOT being put on by the Chamber, and if you knew the questions, you'd see how obvious that was.
The questions were worded in such a way as to create "answers" that are biased and can than be used against the MAPS YES! campaign.
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
Flintysooner, first Firefighters are prohibited to strike by federal law, secondly if you had a chance to vote on anything it would the choice between the cities or the IAFF's last best offer. Since the cities last best offer was thrown out by the arbitraitor for being illegal what would you vote for. The ruling by the arbitraitor ruled the city had the money and awarded a 1.4 % raise. We offered the council the raise in exchange for more bodies. There response was well see you in court.
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
Proud2Bsooner- nice comment, good job of promoting free speech!!!
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
Patrick- I think you forget history. In 2007 when we and I mean we passed the 857 million dollar bond issue it was done on the backs of Police and Fire. The commercials showed lots of fire trucks and police cars even though we got the smallest amount of funding. The funding for Fire was 27 million. The commercials said we all supported it which we did. To counter your negative comment inferring we are hogging the money, streets and bridges got over 500 million. Try harder!
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
OKCRT- tell me what you expect. I go to work for 24 hour shifts. Do you want me working on something for 24 hours straight? I hate to burst your bubble, we are required to exercise 1.5 hours per shift, encouraged to play volleyball. It burns up stress and builds unity. This one will kill you, the Chaplain recommends a nap during the day, it refreshes and recharges people. If your going to expect 24 solid hours of productivity you need to know we only get paid for 16 hours of work per shift.
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
The people doing the push polls:
CMA STRATEGIES!!!!!!!
So, it isn't the Chamber, just the nice guys they are paying to run the campaign.
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
I think if it comes to a vote between the City and the Union that the City would prevail. The union position as it has been explained in this forum at least seems to me to be very difficult to explain and defend. It seems very complicated and not so easily presented in an advertising campaign. And I suspect that would be an expensive campaign.
But maybe something can be concluded before we have to vote.
As passionate about the issue as the pro union supporters come across on this forum it doesn't appear likely though if that is the prevailing sentiment. Seems as though maybe there is no more room for compromise and there seems to be a lack of respect by the union members for both the City administration and the department heads.
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
CMA STRATEGIES!!!!!!!Not the truth. I know for a FACT the Chamber is not behind this.
Thank you Blazer! The truth.
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
Once again, NOT THE TRUTH!
Did the Chamber hire CMA strategies to take on its campaign needs? Yes.
Is the Chamber, through CMA strategies, conducting polling to potential voters in OKC regarding their opinion on MAPS3? Yes.
Is the poll being conducted by CMA Strategies on behalf of the Chamber the same anti-MAPS push poll that is being discussed in this thread? NO!!!!!!!
Why on earth would any organization spend a great deal of money to conduct push-polling that is obviously geared against its very goals? The ONLY way the data collected from this particular push poll could conceivably be used is by police and/or fire in a campaign against MAPS3.
Not sure we can make that any more clear.
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
Fritter you don't know what you are talking about, and that is pretty terrible. Here is a write up from a concerned citizen I just read:
Last night, I got a push-poll type survey about MAPS 3. It depicted OKC police officers and fire fighters as greedy, self-serving vindictive opponents of MAPS 3 because all they care about is raises for themselves and are not getting them. In fact, Mayor Cornet said (around 10/12) on KOCO TV “Public safety is our #1 priority at City Hall…Unions care about getting raises for their employees. They didn’t get a raise this year.”
The survey questions implied that police officers and firefighters work only four days per week and that police officers make $75,000 per year and firefighters $77,000. (Google: Mick Cornett, pay to play and see what you get) .
Not a word about the $930 cost for the average OKC resident for MAPS 3 (which will run for 93 month) —$10 per month according to Dr. Mark Snead, OSU economist who analyzed the cost for the City to fancy up the Ford Center with the same one percent sales tax.
And what does each of us get for $930? Mainly the City’s third convention center and a 70-acre park (a front yard for Devon Energy’s skyscraper?)
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
THAT's a different poll, and NOT THE ONE that was discussed at the start of this thread. Someone is still doing polling out there on behalf of the police!
The poll I got made no direct mention of MAPS3 and was specifically designed to be PRO-Police. Go back and look at soonerguru's originating post. He was discussing an ANTI-MAPS push poll, which is the same poll I am discussing.
If the Chamber is doing their own polling, so be it. They have just as much right to poll as the police / fire unions do. We are still talking about different polls, and I am answering questions regarding the poll as discussed in the opening comments on this thread.
As for the cost per citizen? $10 per month is chicken scratch really considering the overall economic development benefits the city will receive in the long run. Have you not studied the statistics and overall revenue generated, especially tourism dollars, because of MAPS1? That could grow 10-fold under MAPS3. $10 is a pretty small price to pay for an increasingly-thriving economy.
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
It's more than a thriving economy, it's a park where we can have community events, or take the family for a free afternoon of entertainment, it's bike and walking trails where we can actually do something that is both fun and good for us, it's a streetcar which will make getting around downtown easier, and perhaps parking less of a hassle, it's aquatic centers where our senior citizens can get exercise and socialize. I voted for MAPS and have gotten far more than what was on the ballot. I am assuming this one will do the same.
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
I have tried to keep from posting on this as I live in MWC, but I have a cousin on the OKCFD.
Ok build the park and have all of these events and family days. Who is going to clean, mow, and do upkeep on the park? City Services. Who is going to patrol the park to keep it safe for all of these events? Police. Who will be called out if an emergency arises during these events? Fire and police.
I keep seeing alot of people saying that the two issues are unrelated, but the sake of me I still the need to increase bodies of these 3 enitities. By building a park, convnetion center, more residential areas and C2S, then you have to increase the number of firefighter, police, city utilities, and ambulance as well. If not then you are going to increase response time for these groups to get there, then the people will complain that it is taking too long to get the neccessary help or assistance when called for.
The fight between cops/fire/city workers in OKC is not exclusive. I've seen first hand the fight between the same groups in MWC. My father is a retired Asst. Chief of MWCFD and they fought the city council numerous times over the very same thing. The city wants to keep the amount spent at the same rate every year, but new, updated equipment costs more. The reason to buy the new equipment to keep the person using the equipment safe as well as protecting the citizens of the city. Why does this have to be an either or situation. I know that the unions have offered to give up the raised for more people. Why is the city being so hard headed with this issue. Yes the increase in people means and increase in total salaris paid, but if I lived in the city I would welcome this as a means of better protection for my property and well-being.
Sorry for the rant, but I had to get that off my chest. Back to the bickering!!!
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
So they are doing a nasty PUSH POLL. Just not the one originally talked about here!!!???!!!??Did the Chamber hire CMA strategies to take on its campaign needs? Yes.
Is the Chamber, through CMA strategies, conducting polling to potential voters in OKC regarding their opinion on MAPS3? Yes.
BUT THEY ARE DOING ONE!!! THATS THE TRUTH!
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
What are the questions? It's the questions that make it a "push" poll, not the fact that they're doing one.
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
As polarized as things get these days, probably more polls than not are push polls, at least to a degree. Seems to be very little truly independent polling out there for most any topic.
It's not surprising that some elements of both the YES camp and the NO camp would utilize this type of polling.
What's surprising is that some actually seem surprised it is happening.
Precious few want to devote funds to educating a voter to better enable an informed decision, as opposed to deciding aq matter the way the spender wants it to be decided.
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
We already have parks for that. Don't be naive, nothing is FREE.It's more than a thriving economy, it's a park where we can have community events, or take the family for a free afternoon of entertainment,
We already have bike lanes, walking trails, and bike trails in Oklahoma City. Go to lake Hefner.it's bike and walking trails where we can actually do something that is both fun
Have you ever ridden our bus? That is supposed to make getting around town easier. Do you currently have a bus pass? The boats were supposed to do the same thing. The one the City spent 1.4 Million of stimulus money on recently. The one that only has about 18 or so riders daily.it's a streetcar which will make getting around downtown easier,
From what I've heard the mayor say in his private chamber of commerce meeting the parking lot ideas have been SCRATCHED!!! Parking will still be terrible.and perhaps parking less of a hassle,
Are you a senior? What's the YMCA for? The one downtown is awesome. Don't they have that program?it's aquatic centers where our senior citizens can get exercise and socialize.
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
That's true and a fair question.Would you support this tax extension knowing that police and fire have to take a two percent budget cut?
That's true and a fair question.Would you continue to support it knowing the council approved the ballot without any citizen input?
if they weren't you could dial 911...ON HOLD...then talk to someone...WAIT 4 HOURS....make a report.......GOES ON STACK OF 35 ON DESK OF ONE DEAD BEAT OVERPAID WHINER DETECTIVE WHO'S 45 DAYS BEHIND ON REPORTS...do it today and he'll get to it right about Christmas time!!!!Are push polls legal in Oklahoma?
I wish I had exaggerated some of that........."BIG LEAGUE CITY"...
But we've got the best bike trails, convention center and fair grounds for at least 207 Miles (Dallas)
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
You clearly just don't get it, nor are you ever going to get it. A downtown park is a completely different thing from a local park. It's a symbol of community, as well as a green space in a place that doesn't have much green. How many of our neighborhood parks have amphitheatres that can hold thousands of people? Have you ever been to New York, Boston or Chicago and seen what a downtown park can mean to a city?
Have you ever visited or lived in a city that actually makes alternate forms of transportation easy and enjoyable for its residents? Ridden a bike downtown lately? Tried to ride to the grocery store lately? Tried to ride to work? There are cities where people actually go places using something other than their cars. Most of those cities are considered to have high quality of life scores, too. I have to drive my car to get to Lake Hefner because it's not safe to ride there on city streets.
So you think our transportation system is perfect and doesn't need improvement? I didn't have a car in the last city I lived in, and got everywhere I wanted to go with relative ease. I think a downtown streetcar system may actually convince some of the people who seem like they've been surgically attached to their cars that there are other ways to get around that are greener and more relaxing. It may provide the impetus we need to improve all of our public transportation, when it isn't believed to be just for those who cannot afford a car.
I'm hoping most of the parking is scratched. An urban park shouldn't need a lot of parking. You'll access it by strolling down the boulevard from Bricktown, walk up from one of the parking areas near the river, take the streetcar or the bus. Parking is only terrible for those who come downtown so infrequently they have no idea where to go.
I'm not going to say seniors shouldn't have senior centers if they want them. Personally, I can live without it, but, if our seniors want them, that's good enough for me.
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Re: Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll
flintysooner.
the City's Last BEst Offer was found Illegal and THROWN out. that means that the city DOES NOT HAVE a last best offer so when the vote comes it will only have the UNIONS offer on there rather than the city;s and the union's. its not a yes no vote its a which do you vote for but if there is only one option you cant vote against it. Make Sense now?
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