MAPS Public Process Needs Correction

[bdhumphreys]

My thanks to Doug Loudenback for the inspiration to speak up.

[betts]

I have to agree with you. I don't like the process, although that doesn't mean I don't agree with the hoped for end result. I think it's short sighted not to present plans to all the voters, to give them ownership of the concepts, since they're primarily designed for us as a group.

[joseph]

I attended a free public meeting a couple of weeks ago at Douglas High School where the Mayor spoke and there was many questions answered about the projects - very informative. There were public meetings that week in other parts of the city as well. My business is a member of the Chamber - the luncheon you referenced is a part of the Breaking Through luncheons that the Chamber hosts and the one Monday and the luncheons for the next two weeks focus on MAPS 3 (they are not press conferences). You could watch the presentations live via streaming video on the Chamber website - I believe they are doing these for the next two luncheons as well.

[Midtowner]

It'll be a good test case to see if the Chamber can ramrod through anything they want... even a ballot asking for $777 million for "capital improvements."

[jbrown84]

I don't really understand what is going on here. Do they really think they can get this passed without true public announcements/Q&As, etc??? What on earth are they thinking? It's very frustrating. I'm completely for MAPS 3, but this is hurting the cause all the while the naysayers are building their opposition.

[lasomeday]

They haven't even told us why they chose certain projects. I don't understand why MAPS3 should include anything for the fair grounds. I think a hotel tax should be presented for the fair grounds.

And the senior citizen aquatics center came out of nowhere too.

There are so many holes that need to be filled before people can vote. That is a lot of money for the city to spend.

[bdhumphreys]

I attended a free public meeting a couple of weeks ago at Douglas High School where the Mayor spoke and there was many questions answered about the projects

Joseph -

I have searched the City's MAPS 3 website (okc.gov/maps3), YESforMAPS.org, done a number of google searches for a variety of terms looking for a schedule of public meetings. I even subscribe to the twitter accounts for the OKC Chamber, YESforMAPS, the City of Oklahoma City, and Mayor Mick Cornett - but nothing was announced. If the meetings are listed anywhere, they are incredibly hard to find. I am honestly not trying to create something out of nothing, I am simply commenting on the reality that exists.

Would you mind telling me how you found out about the meeting at Douglas? It seems like the City's MAPS 3 website should list the meeting(s) somewhere, but it ostensibly does not (see here).

I spent the better part of the last 12 months researching the history of planning and development in Oklahoma City, and the current tactics closely resemble those that led to some of our City's most stunning failures.

[Larry OKC]

They haven't even told us why they chose certain projects. I don't understand why MAPS3 should include anything for the fair grounds. I think a hotel tax should be presented for the fair grounds.

And the senior citizen aquatics center came out of nowhere too.

There are so many holes that need to be filled before people can vote. That is a lot of money for the city to spend.

Hope this info helps...

Believe the Mayor stated in the initial MAPS press conference that most of the items came from the MAPS 3 online survey done a couple of years ago (said something like 12 of the 14 top suggestions are either in MAPS 3 or already addressed thru things like the 2007 General Obligation & School bond issues).

Two words for the inclusion of the Fairgrounds: Clay Bennett. He has been the head of the Fairgrounds board for several years (decades?) now. A hotel tax already exists for the fairgrounds and either, it has already been dedicated to pay for the bond issues for improvements and/or is already being used for improvements under way. They want more improvements and they don't want to have to wait until those existing funding methods are available again.

The senior citizen centers was one of the MAPS 3 survey suggestions. MAPS 3 | Oklahoma City
It was probably a political consideration (a good number of active voters are in that demographic) and be spreading them across the city, MAPS 3 isn't "just a Downtown thing". When the Ford improvements ($120M) were removed and made a separate vote, that left $120M up for grabs. The "minor" items all fit in that $120M amount and any combination may have been included as a result:

Senior Citizens Aquatics ($50M)
Sidewalks ($10M)
River Improvements ($60M)
Fairgrounds ($60M)
Trails ($40M)
Contingency ($17M)

[iron76hd]

RAM ROD IT CHAMBER!!! Secret meetings and all.

That won't help it pass though...

[Larry OKC]

...If the meetings are listed anywhere, they are incredibly hard to find. ... It seems like the City's MAPS 3 website should list the meeting(s) somewhere, but it ostensibly does not ...

Agree, there is much talk about things being open and transparent and the critical need to get information to the public, etc., etc., then they keep doing what you have mentioned. Certainly seems self-contradictory at best.

From the More Info sidebar in Luncheons ‘map’ out Oklahoma City’s tax plan details (10/22/09)

More events planned

→Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett has scheduled two more Breaking Through luncheons, during which he and other featured speakers will discuss details about MAPS 3. The luncheons will be 11:30 a.m. to 1 p.m. Oct. 29 and Nov. 16. Both will be at the Petroleum Club, 100 N Broadway Ave., Suite 3400.

→The cost is $30 for Greater Oklahoma City Chamber members and $35 for nonmembers.

→To register, go to Greater Oklahoma City Chamber - Membership Central - Chamber Events Calendar<br> and Registration.

Think others have mentioned a free meeting (U.N?) or something like that in other threads. Will see if I can locate and repost the info here.

[Larry OKC]

MAPS PRESENTATION AT NOVEMBER U.N. SOCIAL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On November 12, the Untitled Artspace on 3rd Street will host the November social. Not only will the Skirvin’s John Williams and Nonna’s Avis Scaramucci be honored with U.N. Ambassador awards, but Chamber President Roy Williams will be speaking on MAPS 3.

As always, the social will be 5:30 – 7:30 p.m. and free appetizers and a cash bar will be available. See you there!

Hope this helps

[OSUFan]

Not to really take sides on this but I watched the last luncheon on the chamber's web site live for free.

[bdhumphreys]

Not to really take sides on this but I watched the last luncheon on the chamber's web site live for free.

Sorry to point out the obvious, but a live feed does not provide an opportunity to ask questions.

Public meetings...have questions. Press conferences...have questions. Infomercials...ahh, now I understand.

[joseph]

The town hall meetings held a couple of weeks ago at John Marshall High School, Douglas High School, and Integris Southwest were mentioned on local news (I don't recall which one I saw it on). I also heard about it from friends. If you go to one of these, the luncheons, or one of the many upcoming sessions that are being scheduled - I think you will see that questions are encouraged of the Mayor and other speakers. There should be plenty of chances to ask questions and get the information out and I am sure we will hear about many more opportunities in the coming days.

[flintysooner]

There's been enough information provided for me to consider how I'm going to vote on the proposition.

There are 3 big projects and 5 smaller ones. The plans detailed have been about what I'd expect at this stage of the game which is just a little more than preliminary. The ballot has been defined and all I have to decide is if I want to vote for a one cent sales tax.

City government seems to have pretty much been trustworthy with the previous projects based on what little I know.

I am sympathetic to many of those who oppose but those arguments seem insufficient to persuade me to vote no.

Most everyone I know who can and will vote have made up their mind.

I suppose I could spend a lot more time worrying about details but honestly I see little benefit to it.

[bdhumphreys]

I am sympathetic to many of those who oppose but those arguments seem insufficient to persuade me to vote no.

Just to be clear, I am not, nor have I ever opposed MAPS 3 or attempted to persuade anyone to vote no.

That said, I strongly object to the public process that has, or rather hasn't, been implemented. We were lied to about what meetings would take place over the summer. Opportunities for engagement have remained extremely limited throughout the past two months. And, even behind the scenes, people are being hushed and intimidated out of sharing ideas.

MAPS 3 will be great for Oklahoma City. But some things are more important than public improvements, especially maintaining an open and honest government. If it takes the disintegration of the latter, in order to obtain the former, then the city overall is taking a step backwards.

[lasomeday]

I totally agree with BHumphrey. It seems that if a group in OKC wanted something on the ballot they just pushed the mayor and city council to put it on there. I think the Chamber pushed for the convention center and the fair people pushed for their expo center. I am for everything on the ballot except these two. I think if we want these then they should be in a hotel tax not a sales tax. These are deal breakers for me. The convention center is too expensive! And I don't think that any fair ground improvements should be on a MAPS ballot. Didn't we just spend money to upgrade the fairgrounds?

[bdhumphreys]

lasomeday - I appreciate your agreement and welcome your thoughts on the individual projects.

That said, I do hope that this thread will remain focused on the MAPS 3 public process and not get bogged down in a more general discussion on the merits of the MAPS 3 projects that is already provided for in other threads.

[andy157]

lasomeday - I appreciate your agreement and welcome your thoughts on the individual projects.

That said, I do hope that this thread will remain focused on the MAPS 3 public process and not get bogged down in a more general discussion on the merits of the MAPS 3 projects that is already provided for in other threads.

I'm not lasomeday, but having to pay $35 to learn more about MAPS 3 explains more than I need to know regarding the process. Maybe I should have said all I need to know

[bdhumphreys]

There should be plenty of chances to ask questions and get the information out and I am sure we will hear about many more opportunities in the coming days.

I don't doubt that we will. I am sure that the city will be scrambling to infuse the process with some strain of legitimacy now that the natives are growing restless.

Of course, they have now waited so that it is too late to change anything. What we will see in the coming weeks is a political campaign - not a public process.

[OSUFan]

Sorry to point out the obvious, but a live feed does not provide an opportunity to ask questions.

Public meetings...have questions. Press conferences...have questions. Infomercials...ahh, now I understand.

I wasn't trying to prove any points. Just simply stating those luncheons are streamed live for anyone who wants to watch them. I've talked to several people who have had open discussions with the Mayor or other city leaders at different meetings or gatherings. I guess they just need to get the word out better.

[bdhumphreys]

I guess they just need to get the word out better.

I couldn't agree more!

And the public meetings should have begun well before the MAPS 3 project list was set by the council. City officials were actively discussing MAPS 3 with certain interest groups throughout the spring and summer of 2009 - I think the public deserved similar opportunities for input.

[krisb]

Agreed that the process could be a lot better. I have been informed that any civic group, neighborhood association, etc can invite the MAPS 3 coalition to speak at their event/meeting/gathering. My understanding is that many neighborhoods and non-profit groups have already hosted some of these meetings.

[LakeEffect]

Agreed that the process could be a lot better. I have been informed that any civic group, neighborhood association, etc can invite the MAPS 3 coalition to speak at their event/meeting/gathering. My understanding is that many neighborhoods and non-profit groups have already hosted some of these meetings.

Why don't they state that on the www.yesformaps.com site then?

[Doug Loudenback]

How hard would it be for the chamber and/or the city to simply list upcoming meetings on their respective websites, where held, who's speaking, date and time.

Is that so difficult?

Remember back in the March 4 campaign ... Roy Williams was out and about in well publicized meetings and speaking engagements, and he withstood the heat of those present who were anti-March 4-vote just fine.

The city and the chambers' (compound possessive) posture gives an appearance that they are fearful of possible confrontational encounters. Maybe they are.