OKC's rampant problems: blight, congestion, lack of civic planning, etc, etc, etc

[mireaux]

Its occured to me that in recent times that some areas of the greater OKC area seemed obviously blighted, some have been that way for many years, others are trending that way, and some areas are having efforts at preventing blight from occuring.

on the contrast, other areas are being developed aggressively from flat farmland, or are being gentrified, or torn down and rebuilt anew.

these "pockets of blighted areas" contrasted with the affluent areas make the overall OKC map look somewhat like a subdued checkerboard.

I find the OKC area unique compared to other major metropolitan areas of similiar populations. For starters, our greater metropolitan area is quite expansive and spread out. everybody wants their own stretch of land, and doesnt want to reside too too close to anyone else.

Not only is the highway infrastructure dated, but due to recent growth, its also inadequate for the amount of traffic it carries, and moreover the real issue is that there simply isnt enough highway route to effectively get anyone from point A to point B along the highways without having to..at some point..go needlessly a few miles out of your way to arrive at your destination.

I-240 westbound from I-35, as it connects to I-40 at the amarillo junction and proceeds northbound becoming I-44 is regarded as "OKC's west loop"

currently, there is no east loop..although a few years ago there was efforts to build such. The east loop would have passed along the eastern sides of MWC, Choctaw, Jones, etc...but it drew much protest from residents in these areas, and since has been thrown off the drawing board.

I guess eminent domain doesnt really work in all circumstances.

so because everyone wants their share of tranquility at their residence/town, and yet wants some sort of convienence of a big city,..we commute long distances to work along the few highways that exist that are insufficient for the traffic they carry.

neighborhoods are spread out, shopping centers are spread out...everything is spread out...nothing is nestled together. throughout the greater oklahoma city area there are wide patches of unused farmland that needlessly seperate residents and business from having the benefit of a well organized, and efficient metropolitan area..complete with well planned transporation, commerce, jobs and everything in between within its inlay. compare this to most other cities..it rarely exists elsewhere.

another real issue is that there is just one solitary highway that connects the state's largest city with the state's third largest city: oklahoma city and norman. whats worse is that the latter is growing at a fast rate, and no efforts are in place to build an alternate highway to connect the two cities together to alleviate the congestion on I-35.

why did OKC feel the need to spend money to lure Bass Pro here in an attempt to draw other businesses here? did they really think other corporations were really going to relocate here just cause a major outdoor supply store is located here? what kind of logic is that? whats worse, theres no hiding the hideous patchworked highway that is the I-40 crosstown that Bass Pro is located right next to.

Why does our city feel the need to bribe businesses to come here, when other major cities simply take a back seat, improve their city on their own accord, and soon enough corporations begin to notice the benefits on their own merit.

If you reside in the Mid-Del area and are wanting to commute to Warr Acres, or Bethany,..there really isnt a direct route that will take you there. No highway exists that cuts diagonally across the city. You either take I-40 or I-240, over to I-44,..and more than likely you end up hitting about 15 different traffic lights along the dreaded Northworst Expressway.

Why cant a new highway be built? Why cant more highways be built that better serve both residents and those traveling to, and/or doing business in our city.

If theres one thing any prospective business looks at before deciding where to locate, its definitely highway infrastructure, and OKC's is heavily deteriorated. Take a drive along northbound Sunnylane in Del City just north of 15th street and notice the large amount of accumulated rust spots on the I-40 overpass....really pretty, right?

Another thing that doesnt make sense is why there are various skyscapers located along the NW Expressway..Valliance Bank, and pretty much every other tall structure from Penn all the way out to Council Road...shouldnt those tall buildings all be located downtown, to help better the overall prominence of Oklahoma City's financial strength? (or at least present a faux facade of such)

No troubles, from the looks of things, the new Devon Tower should rectify that issue.

There seems to exist a lacked effort in building new buildings in Oklahoma City..its a rarity of sorts. It seems on the whole that that the majority of most buildings in the city were built somewhere between 1955 and 1980, and after that, construction was far and few between. I guess that can be attributed to the oil bust of 1983. But Oklahoma cant rely on oil and agriculture forever as its chief economic structure.

Its seems that the majority of native Oklahomans who attain college degrees move out of state to pursue careers, and that those who hold college degrees and live and work in Oklahoma City are from other places other than Oklahoma City...as if they had no idea what to expect before moving here, and feel they were cheated in the end.

Why does other major cities have a lot more commerce compared to Oklahoma City. Why does Dallas have several malls (22 to be exact, and most of them are doing fairly good business showing no signs of weakening), but yet the greater Oklahoma City area has about 7 malls (Quail, Penn, Crossroads, Northpark, Heritage Park, Sooner, Shawnee) and about half of them are suffering in revenue.

Why? whats the difference? If Dallas/Ft Worth has a metropolitan populous of close to 6 million people and can support 22 malls...why cant Oklahoma City with close to 1 million populous in its greater vicinity simply support a mere 7 malls?

What can Oklahoma City learn from other major cities to improve its financial record? to improve its transportation system? to reduce crime and drug trafficking? to better its schools? to lure other businesses here to relocate?

Even if the city should improve itself over time, could it be possible that we may someday serve as a shining example for some other troubled cities to learn from us?

[raspberryswirl]

I feel the same way. I can't wait to get out....

[mireaux]

I feel the same way. I can't wait to get out....

whats stopping you?

[hoya]

Our highways are far from crowded. I can go from one end of the city to the other at rush hour less time than it took me to go 10 miles at 11:00 at night in Washington DC. We don't need more highways.

Dallas can support more malls because they have more people. 22 malls with 6 million people is 3.5 malls per million people. We have 7 malls per million, according to your numbers, so if half of them are failing, then we're doing just as we should, compared to Dallas.

[mireaux]

Our highways are far from crowded. I can go from one end of the city to the other at rush hour less time than it took me to go 10 miles at 11:00 at night in Washington DC. We don't need more highways.

Dallas can support more malls because they have more people. 22 malls with 6 million people is 3.5 malls per million people. We have 7 malls per million, according to your numbers, so if half of them are failing, then we're doing just as we should, compared to Dallas.

the highways in okc are less congested, however they arent as efficient as they should be. it requires a driver to drive needlessly out of their way to go to and from many A to B destinations. A prime example would be if you wanted to travel from say 63rd & Independence Ave to Rockwall and 50th. The logical route would be N.W Expressway, but ever count how many stoplights youd have to stop at? Those stoplights become even more annoying at rush hour.

If you wanted to avoid stoplights along N.W Expressway, you could travel south along I-44 and take I-40 westbound till you reach the KilPatrick and loop around exiting off of Hwy 3/NW Expressway. That would be the only route I could fathom to get someone there with the fewest stoplights encountered. You see how silly that is?, but its a daily reality unless you dont mind stoplight after endless stoplight on the expressway. There are other examples of highway route ineffeciencies in Okc, this was just one.

It may be worthy to also note that the N.W. Expressway contains the most dangerous intersection in the entire state of Oklahoma. This intersection is located at the junction of Nw expressway and I-44 just to the immediate southeast of Penn Square Mall. Its so awful that there are concrete barracades to direct traffic coming off of I-44 onto the westbound expressway to funnel it into a single lane.

Another burning question is why there is only one solitary highway route that links Oklahoma's most populated city to its third most populated city? Taking I-35 south bound from I-240 at evening rush hour to Moore-Norman is a total headache. Other cities would have already built an alternate highway to parallel the route to alleviate the congestion, or widen the exisiting route.

It may be true that other cities have more traffic on their highways, but at least they offer more highways to choose from and the highways are laid out in more direct paths that will get you there in less comparitive time and fuel expense.

what good are less congested highways if the routes arent as effective for commuting?

btw,I found humor that when making highway comparisons you chose to compare okc to dc and not dallas as dfw has one of the best highway systems for commuting in the us.

[PennyQuilts]

OMG. Please go to my area on the east coast to get some perspective. We literally plan our day around traffic to even run as simple an errand as a visit to the home improvement store, library or grocery store. It controls the rhythm of our lives. OKC has some areas that aren't as developed and some are downright run down - won't diagree with you there - but OMG. You can get just about anywhere at anytime in thirty minutes. In many areas, in cities on the east coast, thirty minutes won't get you through the first four intersections. I've sworn I would never, given a choice, live in an area filled with rivers that have few alternative routes. And hilly/older cities are like a cow path. The things that you complain about in OKC leave me with my mouth agape. Lots of things to complain about but overall, traffic isn't one of them. For a city that size - or half that size - it is a marvel.

As for your question as to why there are the traffic problems their are - in a word - money . Have you any earthly idea the cost to add the things you are discussing? It doesn't grow on trees, for sure. You can't just willy nilly draw new roads on the map the way we'd like. Again, check out an "old" city or one with rivers before you complain about lack of access. There are a lot of things to find to complain about but this nitpicking of lack of access truly leaves me astonished. If you lived in a fancy city back east, you'd understand.

[metro]

No kidding. This thread is dumb. If you think OKC has problems, visit somewhere else or move to a small town so you don't have to deal with it.

[OKCMallen]

Lubbock has a loop around the city. I guess we're in catch-up mode to them?

[zrfdude]

This one should be thrown in with the 'No Parking Downtown" threads.

[JohnDenver]

Its occured to me that in recent times that some areas of the greater OKC area seemed obviously blighted, some have been that way for many years, others are trending that way, and some areas are having efforts at preventing blight from occuring.

on the contrast, other areas are being developed aggressively from flat farmland, or are being gentrified, or torn down and rebuilt anew.

these "pockets of blighted areas" contrasted with the affluent areas make the overall OKC map look somewhat like a subdued checkerboard.

Welcome to the way of life in almost all cities . Dallas's most prestigious development is surrounded by the hood (Highland Park). Dallas's oldest area (Oak Cliff) that suffered the most white flight, has checked board patterns as well. Steven's Park is next to the hood. The same for Houston. The same for Denver.

I find the OKC area unique compared to other major metropolitan areas of similiar populations. For starters, our greater metropolitan area is quite expansive and spread out. everybody wants their own stretch of land, and doesnt want to reside too too close to anyone else.

Only if you are comparing to Manhattan or Chicago. Otherwise, most *newer* metropolitan areas want their space too. Thus, the urban sprawl. OKC isn't that unique.

I guess eminent domain doesnt really work in all circumstances.

I don't really believe you want to live in a state where the government can take your land without real cause, for the "betterment" of the population as a whole. That doesn't seem like it fits within the OK charter. I know the all the new Toll roads in DFW had lengthy and expensive legal battles to take people's lands for a fraction of their real "value." It was a mess and divided the city.

so because everyone wants their share of tranquility at their residence/town, and yet wants some sort of convienence of a big city,..we commute long distances to work along the few highways that exist that are insufficient for the traffic they carry.

Man. I am new to this fair burg... but the traffic is a BREEZE. Rush hour in OKC is really that.. AN HOUR! Certainly the roads need some help, and I see the construction going on. Yet I don't see the major deficiency that you are griping about.

neighborhoods are spread out, shopping centers are spread out...everything is spread out.... transporation, commerce, jobs and everything in between within its inlay. compare this to most other cities..it rarely exists elsewhere.

Get out a bit. This is the norm for major US cities.

Why does our city feel the need to bribe businesses to come here, when other major cities simply take a back seat, improve their city on their own accord, and soon enough corporations begin to notice the benefits on their own merit.

Again. Look at how other cities "lure" businesses. They all offer tax breaks and incentives. ALL of them. There wasn't a month that went by that Dallas wasn't offering tax breaks and land leases to companies to relocate. Dallas has a ton of headquarters and tons of jobs. That is why you see the college educated move there. It isn't by happenstance. It is by design and work.

There seems to exist a lacked effort in building new buildings in Oklahoma City..its a rarity of sorts. It seems on the whole that that the majority of most buildings in the city were built somewhere between 1955 and 1980, and after that, construction was far and few between. I guess that can be attributed to the oil bust of 1983. But Oklahoma cant rely on oil and agriculture forever as its chief economic structure.

I am new to the city. When my family and friends come to visit, they *LOVE* how OKC hasn't torn down the old buildings. Instead there is emphasis to reuse, not rebuild. What we have now is a mish mash of mid century buildings next to semi-new buildings.. and I think it is great. It can be the city's strength.

Its seems that the majority of native Oklahomans who attain college degrees move out of state to pursue careers, and that those who hold college degrees and live and work in Oklahoma City are from other places other than Oklahoma City...as if they had no idea what to expect before moving here, and feel they were cheated in the end.

True. The population on a whole here in OKC is pretty under-educated. This is not a judgment, just the way it is. The workforce is entirely different here that where I am lived previously. When I go to the mall, there are middle aged people working retail jobs (as a career), where other cities these are all teenager jobs. Same for the food industry.

I think there is a lack of higher education *in* OKC. The sole focus and lust on OU appears to pull away from other schools from growing and better serving the public in OKC.

Large companies do not locate where there isn't a highly educated workforce pool. There are very few science based jobs here, this isn't just a coincidence. Very few telecomm, software, electrical engineering, etc. Those companies will place a call center here, but don't confuse that for the types of jobs that those companies 'value'.

Malls... Why? whats the difference? If Dallas/Ft Worth has a metropolitan populous of close to 6 million people and can support 22 malls...why cant Oklahoma City with close to 1 million populous in its greater vicinity simply support a mere 7 malls?

Your math doesn't compute. Per capita we have more malls than DFW. Now, you can complain about the quality of these malls, maybe that is where you are going with that.

What can Oklahoma City learn from other major cities to improve its financial record? to improve its transportation system? to reduce crime and drug trafficking? to better its schools? to lure other businesses here to relocate?

Education. Valued work force.

Even if the city should improve itself over time, could it be possible that we may someday serve as a shining example for some other troubled cities to learn from us?

It seems like OKC is doing a pretty decent job of building. I think we need to have more tax breaks and incentives to lure tech jobs to OKC. Keep some of our college grads local and spend their money here.

[PennyQuilts]

OKC has been touted, repeatedly, as a going concern by many publications. I've been gone for nine years and it is amazing how much has happened just since I left. Perhaps people living here just don't see it.

Oklahoma has definitely diversified and not only that, it has a huge military and FAA presence plus multiple universities in the area. The fact that is is a capital city is a bigger deal than many people realize.

I agree that many college educated kids leave because pay is less (altough the cost of living mirrors that). I think part of why they leave is also because many educated young people tend to enjoy the types of cities that cater more to entertainment and recreation. But a lot of those kids come back after they've been gone 5 - 10 years. It is the kind of city where people put down roots.

Many cities have a hard time finding natives to their area because as they grow and attract educated (but frequently transient) residents, they turn into something the natives don't want so they move away to places that aren't so expensive, congested or expensive.

[bombermwc]

Why is this in the Mid-Del forums?

[mireaux]

As for your question as to why there are the traffic problems their are - in a word - money . Have you any earthly idea the cost to add the things you are discussing? It doesn't grow on trees, for sure. You can't just willy nilly draw new roads on the map the way we'd like. Again, check out an "old" city or one with rivers before you complain about lack of access. There are a lot of things to find to complain about but this nitpicking of lack of access truly leaves me astonished. If you lived in a fancy city back east, you'd understand.

Right! It takes tax dollars to build new roads, the more residents you have the more tax money is available for such. But since okc wants big city living yet everyone wants to be able to stretch their arms out and not rub against their neighbor-it takes a ridiculous amount of time to drive from one end of town to another.

Maybe if okc could get over its problem of thinking oil & agriculture is the only financially viable industries perhaps we could begin to attract other types of businesses into town, and the new residents that would ultimately relocate here seeking those other types of jobs available.

Youre comparing inland Oklahoma City to what exact city on the east coast? People tend to have an undying affinity to living close to pretty oceans. in fact, 50% of all american citizens reside within 100 miles of any given ocean shoreline, so it doesnt surprise me that whatever city you lived at back on the east coast had traffic problems.

[JohnDenver]

Right! It takes tax dollars to build new roads, the more residents you have the more tax money is available for such. But since okc wants big city living yet everyone wants to be able to stretch their arms out and not rub against their neighbor-it takes a ridiculous amount of time to drive from one end of town to another.

You lead the movement. Just get over it and move into the city, where you will never have to drive from "end to end". Your complaining makes it sound like you are part of the problem, not the solution.

I live 2 miles north of downtown. I drive twice a week. Otherwise I can bike/walk to restaurants for lunch and dinner. Same for bars. I need to drive to the grocery store and movie theater, that is about it.

[metro]

Same here, I live downtown, stacked upon other neighbors, ride my bike and scooter 5-6 days a week (except the week it was raining every day). Am able to walk to everything except a grocery store, well I guess I could even do that, but refuse to. Anyhow sounds like you just need to get out more, even in your own city. There are plenty of us young professionals and folks from all walks of life in the inner city/downtown that love the urban lifestyle.

[mugofbeer]

Oklahoma City is the way it is because it was founded in 1889, grew during the advent and boom of the automobile and has plenty of available and cheap land around it to develop. OKC isn't surrounded or limited by expanses of water, mountains or expensive land. We have little in the way of housing built during horse and buggy days so OKC is the way it is because its a 20th century city.

OKC has a problem of seeing our children grow up and leave for more exciting places elsewhere to live, love and work. Economics and demographic trends will dictate the way OKC grows in the future. My observation is that more and more people - 20 & 30 somethings without children and older folks mainly without children desire a close-in place to live near entertainment and good restaurants.

OKC is only just starting to develop a significant number and choice of these types of places and as more set up shop, more people will desire to live close-in. Demand for urban-style living will result in more places being built. Projects like MAPS and C2S set the foundation for redevelopment of blighted areas and give us room to grow inward. Once there is a flow of interest inward to the urban areas, OKC will see significant changes and a limit to the outward-only growth.

There will always be those of us who enjoy the wide open spaces and greenery of our own and to that I say, "To each his own." For those who want the urban environment, all power to you and move inward. I only hope to see MAPS3 be a success so more inward momentum can be created. Eventually, it will become self-sustaining. Then we can move on to helping the middle-town areas see some improvement - some of those other pockets of blight the thread writer alluded to.

[PennyQuilts]

Right! It takes tax dollars to build new roads, the more residents you have the more tax money is available for such. But since okc wants big city living yet everyone wants to be able to stretch their arms out and not rub against their neighbor-it takes a ridiculous amount of time to drive from one end of town to another.

I couldn't disagree more. OKC is super, super easy to get from one place to another when compared to many cities of similar size.

Maybe if okc could get over its problem of thinking oil & agriculture is the only financially viable industries perhaps we could begin to attract other types of businesses into town, and the new residents that would ultimately relocate here seeking those other types of jobs available.

I don't know who you are talking to or reading but I just don't see that. Maybe thirty years ago but we have discussed nothing but diversifying for fifteen years.

Youre comparing inland Oklahoma City to what exact city on the east coast? People tend to have an undying affinity to living close to pretty oceans. in fact, 50% of all american citizens reside within 100 miles of any given ocean shoreline, so it doesnt surprise me that whatever city you lived at back on the east coast had traffic problems.

I live near DC. I have never been to the ocean in nine years and as I sit here thinking, while I know people go, none of my neighbors have gone in the past seven years that I'm aware of. The congestion in this area is not because of the ocean. It is because I-95 cuts through carrying the bulk of east coast traffic going north and south, and because of city traffic. My husband spends three hours a day commuting by train into the city and back. It takes twenty minutes to drive there at midnight and about an hour and a half during rush hour. Both ways. If there isn't a wreck.

Even living outside the city, the traffic is so ridiculous that we take back roads and rush to go to the grocery store before 9:00 a.m. on the weekend to avoid the crush of people not only on the roads, but in the stores. On weekdays, you go between 10:30 and 11:30.

You can complain all you want about OKC but traffic as a significant issue is just not credible. You just don't realize how bad it can get. OKC is heaven in comparison and everytime we come back from visiting, we marvel at how wonderful the lack of traffic is. BTW, we have family on NW highway (and I admit it is crowded at rush hour but since there are so many alternative routes, you don't generally get stuck), people on the far east side, our home is in SW OKC and I spend a lot of time near OCU and in Norman. Trust me, getting around is not a problem.

[okcpulse]

Not only is the highway infrastructure dated, but due to recent growth, its also inadequate for the amount of traffic it carries, and moreover the real issue is that there simply isnt enough highway route to effectively get anyone from point A to point B along the highways without having to..at some point..go needlessly a few miles out of your way to arrive at your destination.

Oklahoma City's 2020 plan calls for completing the Kilpatrick Turnpike leg that will curve around the western side of the airport, cross I-44 a few miles south of the I-240/I-44 split, and then intersect with I-35 south of Moore. S.H. 74 will soon be a four-lane divided highway from Memorial Rd. north for four miles.

I-240 westbound from I-35, as it connects to I-40 at the amarillo junction and proceeds northbound becoming I-44 is regarded as "OKC's west loop"

currently, there is no east loop..although a few years ago there was efforts to build such. The east loop would have passed along the eastern sides of MWC, Choctaw, Jones, etc...but it drew much protest from residents in these areas, and since has been thrown off the drawing board.

I guess eminent domain doesnt really work in all circumstances.

The population growth just isn't happening in eastern Oklahoma County to even warrant an east loop. And you are correct. Residents protested heavily.

neighborhoods are spread out, shopping centers are spread out...everything is spread out...nothing is nestled together. throughout the greater oklahoma city area there are wide patches of unused farmland that needlessly seperate residents and business from having the benefit of a well organized, and efficient metropolitan area..complete with well planned transporation, commerce, jobs and everything in between within its inlay. compare this to most other cities..it rarely exists elsewhere.

Houston's sprawl can swallow Oklahoma City whole several times over. Why are you singling out Oklahoma City when you know very well that there is just as much of an effort to pull people back downtown.

another real issue is that there is just one solitary highway that connects the state's largest city with the state's third largest city: oklahoma city and norman. whats worse is that the latter is growing at a fast rate, and no efforts are in place to build an alternate highway to connect the two cities together to alleviate the congestion on I-35.

And ODOT is working on widening I-35 from OKC to Norman. That and the planned extension of the Kilpatrick Turnpike which will terminate at I-35. Hopefully that should suffice your concerns for a while.

why did OKC feel the need to spend money to lure Bass Pro here in an attempt to draw other businesses here? did they really think other corporations were really going to relocate here just cause a major outdoor supply store is located here? what kind of logic is that? whats worse, theres no hiding the hideous patchworked highway that is the I-40 crosstown that Bass Pro is located right next to.

Okay, this is where I question how much you are informed about Oklahoma City. OKC didn't bring Bass Pro to the city in an attempt to lure business here. The money invested in other amenities the bioscience corridor and public schools FAR exceeds the incentives given to Bass Pro. And that hideous patchwork next to Bass Pro is coming down once the new I-40 is complete. My goodness where on Earth have you been on that one????

Why does our city feel the need to bribe businesses to come here, when other major cities simply take a back seat, improve their city on their own accord, and soon enough corporations begin to notice the benefits on their own merit.

Every city in every state bribes businesses to move to their community. It's pretty much a way of life. Other cities don't take the back seat and improve their city to their own accord. It's just that some other cities made improvements before OKC did and have been reaping the rewards. OKC making those improvements right now. But like every place else, it takes time to fully reap the rewards. People need to stop thinking this stuff happens over night. It doesn't.

If you reside in the Mid-Del area and are wanting to commute to Warr Acres, or Bethany,..there really isnt a direct route that will take you there. No highway exists that cuts diagonally across the city. You either take I-40 or I-240, over to I-44,..and more than likely you end up hitting about 15 different traffic lights along the dreaded Northworst Expressway.

Why cant a new highway be built? Why cant more highways be built that better serve both residents and those traveling to, and/or doing business in our city.

Your asking this a time when the entire country is hell-bent on not building any more new highways and going after light rail and other methods of green transportation. But the best solution to the dilemma you mentioned is converting N.W. 39th Expressway to a freeway. But I don't think the businesses will be too savvy on that solution.

If theres one thing any prospective business looks at before deciding where to locate, its definitely highway infrastructure, and OKC's is heavily deteriorated. Take a drive along northbound Sunnylane in Del City just north of 15th street and notice the large amount of accumulated rust spots on the I-40 overpass....really pretty, right?

Again, do your research on this. Do you NOT see all of the rehabilitation projects going on all over Oklahoma City? Or do you just not pay attention? BTW, I've seen the construction bids going out tentatively for October. Looks like I-40's number came up for resurfacing. As for OKC's highway infrastructure being heavily deteriorated? I'd say 20% of our freeway mileage is in less than good condition. 5% of that mileage is in bad condition, which is the Crosstown and the I-44/I-235 interchange.

Oklahoma DOT will be replacing or rehabilitating a ton of bridges across the state. Don't be too surprised to find I-40's overpasses in Del City and MWC to end up on the list.

Another thing that doesnt make sense is why there are various skyscapers located along the NW Expressway..Valliance Bank, and pretty much every other tall structure from Penn all the way out to Council Road...shouldnt those tall buildings all be located downtown, to help better the overall prominence of Oklahoma City's financial strength? (or at least present a faux facade of such)

There was a trend in the 1960s-1980s nationwide to build office buildings away from the CBD. It was done in Dallas, Houston, LA, Tulsa, Atlanta... need I go on? I agree with your ideaology, but Oklahoma City is not unique to this.

No troubles, from the looks of things, the new Devon Tower should rectify that issue.

There seems to exist a lacked effort in building new buildings in Oklahoma City..its a rarity of sorts. It seems on the whole that that the majority of most buildings in the city were built somewhere between 1955 and 1980, and after that, construction was far and few between. I guess that can be attributed to the oil bust of 1983.

It's about supply and demand. When corporate growth in Oklahoma City picks up, so will the demand for more office space. Check out the Journal Record's annual Book of Lists for some good info on Oklahoma City's office space, or pick up a copy of the paper for monthy stats on occupancy rates.

But Oklahoma cant rely on oil and agriculture forever as its chief economic structure.

It DOESN'T. I've had to emphasize many times before that Oklahoma City worked hard to diversify its economy after the 1983 oil bust. It's just that the energy companies based here have been enjoying growth. Oklahoma City doesn't rely on oil. It benefits from the presence of energy companies. If anything, Oklahoma City has been investing its time heavily on building up the biomedical research corridor.

It's really funny. When Oklahoma City tries to attract industry that's not oil or gas related, you people suggest they shouldn't come to Oklahoma City. But then, when you think Oklahoma City relies too heavily on oil and gas, you people suggest the city should diversify. Well, make up your freakin' mind. Do you want other inustries to open shop or not?

Its seems that the majority of native Oklahomans who attain college degrees move out of state to pursue careers

Because they've been indoctrinated by the anti-Oklahoma league that they are best to leave the state in search of opportunity.

and that those who hold college degrees and live and work in Oklahoma City are from other places other than Oklahoma City...as if they had no idea what to expect before moving here, and feel they were cheated in the end.

In no way do you have any capacity to know what thousands of people think or feel about Oklahoma City. Those are blatant assumptions. I know people with professional degrees that moved to OKC years ago, and they still love it here.

Why does other major cities have a lot more commerce compared to Oklahoma City. Why does Dallas have several malls (22 to be exact, and most of them are doing fairly good business showing no signs of weakening), but yet the greater Oklahoma City area has about 7 malls (Quail, Penn, Crossroads, Northpark, Heritage Park, Sooner, Shawnee) and about half of them are suffering in revenue.

Why? whats the difference? If Dallas/Ft Worth has a metropolitan populous of close to 6 million people and can support 22 malls...why cant Oklahoma City with close to 1 million populous in its greater vicinity simply support a mere 7 malls?

Well, if people in OKC stopped doing all of there shopping in Dallas, retail might follow their dollars back to OKC. How about that concept? The days of building indoor malls are pretty much over for most American cities. Outdoor lifestyle retail centers are all the rage these days, and Tuscana near Quail Springs Mall should fill that void when it is completed.

But your comparing OKC, whose MSA has 1.3 million people, which is just now coming into its own, with DFW, an MSA of 6.5 million, which has been an established national powerhouse for several decades. You also have to remember that Dallas gets more travel traffic.

What can Oklahoma City learn from other major cities to improve its financial record? to improve its transportation system? to reduce crime and drug trafficking? to better its schools? to lure other businesses here to relocate?

Even if the city should improve itself over time, could it be possible that we may someday serve as a shining example for some other troubled cities to learn from us?

Oklahoma City is doing everything it can. MAPS for Kids just wrapped up. You've seen what MAPS did to turn downtown and the city's spirits around. If it weren't for MAPS, Devon Energy would have moved to Houston. Larry Nichols said so himself. So the quality of life has helped Oklahoma City retain its current homegrown companies. Remember, aside from Devon, Chesapeake and Sandridge, Sonic, Express Personnel, Hobby Lobby, Love's and Globe Life Insurance all have their corporate HQ's here.

Sonic even built their new HQ in Bricktown as a sign of pride in their company's home town. The Chamber of Commerce and Convention & Visitors Bureau is working hard through the Forward Oklahoma City programs to attract new jobs to OKC, and both organizations have been working with the state to find solutions to improve school performance.

Even a website went up called Project Boomerang, to attract native Oklahomans back to Oklahoma, to create momentum to invest in Oklahoma's corporate future, and to grow education.

You need to let these people do their job and be patient with them. Things things don't happen over night.

[bombermwc]

This is just a bitch-fest thread. Why is it even here?

[kevinpate]

cause bitch fests need homes too?

[westsidesooner]

Okc's traffic is nothing compared to most cities. But it does have its congested spots. Most of those are under construction as we speak.

I do wish they had made nwhy an interstate a long time ago. Some areas of far NW OKC has been hard to travel to forever. Hefner & MacArthur for example. Its (I-nwhy) impossible now of course, and I avoid nwhy at all costs. I-35 south is a nightmare at rush hour. Everytime I get caught it it I'm glad I'm not southsidesooner, but than again, it's not that bad when compared to other cities.

[EBAH]

HAHA, I have never read this thread before today, because of it's totally weird location in the mid del forum. Mireaux came up with complaints that have NEVER even crossed my mind before (I am not meaning to indicate that they are rational). Traffic in this city is a breeze. I just flat out can not believe that any prospective business relocation would ever be nixed because of our highway system?!?! The city has it's problems, but so do most. The "checkerboard" of blight and wealth, well, I've always called that diversity, and I've always considered it one of our strong suits. If you don't like the sprawl and long commutes, move out of the suburbs. I used to live in Mid-Del, I liked it just fine as far as my house was concerned, but eventually, I got tired of driving to inner city OKC everyday, and just moved. I don't know about the OP's neighborhood, but mine is dense, clustered, vibrant, and a short bike ride away from restaurants, bars, downtown, etc..... I agree with a previous poster, file this one away with the "not enough parking downtown" threads

[mireaux]

I don't know who you are talking to or reading but I just don't see that. Maybe thirty years ago but we have discussed nothing but diversifying for fifteen years.



.

discussion and affirmative action are two completely different things.

[mireaux]

This is just a bitch-fest thread. Why is it even here?

you can call it that, and ignore the facts, then absolutely nothing positive will come to fruition. or you can change your stance a bit and see that my "bitching" is really identifying key issues that strongly need to be addressed to make okc a much better place to live.

so many other posters keep failing short of what im trying to convey in relation to what i mean regarding okc's highway system.

yesssss...the roads here are less congested. HOWEVER, they are not laid down with the most direct routes, so you are driving so much further and longer to get to whereever it is that you need to go.

so what if theres only 5 other cars on the highway as youre driving, youre still driving for a longer period of time and distance than you should be. if the highway routes were more direct, or if there were more highway routes in existence, your overall commute would be even more shorter in time and distance than it already is.

[mireaux]

Oklahoma City's 2020 plan calls for completing the Kilpatrick Turnpike leg that will curve around the western side of the airport, cross I-44 a few miles south of the I-240/I-44 split, and then intersect with I-35 south of Moore. S.H. 74 will soon be a four-lane divided highway from Memorial Rd. north for four miles.



The population growth just isn't happening in eastern Oklahoma County to even warrant an east loop. And you are correct. Residents protested heavily.





And ODOT is working on widening I-35 from OKC to Norman. That and the planned extension of the Kilpatrick Turnpike which will terminate at I-35. Hopefully that should suffice your concerns for a while.




Oklahoma DOT will be replacing or rehabilitating a ton of bridges across the state. Don't be too surprised to find I-40's overpasses in Del City and MWC to end up on the list.







Well, if people in OKC stopped doing all of there shopping in Dallas, retail might follow their dollars back to OKC. How about that concept? The days of building indoor malls are pretty much over for most American cities. Outdoor lifestyle retail centers are all the rage these days, and Tuscana near Quail Springs Mall should fill that void when it is completed.



.

yeah, once the kilpatrick loop project is completed that should be much better, but knowing how things are its likely its going to be a tolled road when honestly it shouldnt be, at least the new section from norman/moore to okc should be toll-free.

people in okc do their shopping in dallas because of the diversity that dallas has. another reason is that texas offers an annual tax free weekend. why cant oklahoma do the same? ill answer that for you, because were a tax greedy state.

the I-40 overpass that spans over Sunnylane in Del City is hidious. I hope its the first on their list to be updated.

Well, if folks in eastern Ok county heavily protested sounds like the govt needs to step in firmer with that eminant domain clause and pull their land from up under their feet. If we did it to Indian tribes over 100 years ago, no reason why we cant do it today. We need it for a highway loop, folks! Come to terms with what needs to be done.